Key22

But I would perhaps look at it as overall money instead of individual contracts. Castillo would arguably be the ace of our staff and he has three years of arbitration control left. The guy is pretty elite. So you now have a rotation of Castillo Berrios Gausman Manoah Kikuchi/Ryu Stripling/Pearson. That rotation covers inevitable injuries and offers significant depth. Votto is still putting up excellent numbers 3.5 WAR and a .938OPS with 36 bombs so he's still worth his contract. Moose is the iffy contract but if they take Grichuck back then the salary add here is $6m and $8m (the contract difference) so this looks much better to me. And our lineup will force more pitchers to pitch to these guys. If Moose sucks who cares - Grichuk sucks. So we're kind of already eating $10m now.

I said a while back that the Jays could pick up Votto's contract and they're only on the hook for 2 years (3rd is an option) and so you're not stuck with a 6 year Freeman contract. If the Jays are also able to pick up the remaining Moustakas contract - if you think last year was due to his injuries and there is some future life left then you solve your left-handed bat issues and you have a guy who can play second and third. With a better line-up there is more protection for them. Ideally to take those contracts you also get Castillo. I am of the view that you still upgrade the pitching wherever you can. Castillo Votto ($25m 2022, $25m 2023, $20m or $7m buyout in 2024) Votto may make us pick up the option to waive his no trade. Moustakas ($16m in 2022, $18m in 2023, $20m or $4m buyiout in 2024) -1WAR last year. Taking on $41m, $43m, $40m or $11m buyout. Similar to the Twins dumping Donaldson they had to give up a GG-winning shortstop in Falefa and also take a bad contract in Sanchez back. No big prospects are involved. So if the Jays can absorb two big contracts they may be able to ship Grichuck ($26m going back over 2 years) back and a few good prospects but maybe not the Mareno or Orelvis tier. Maybe you send them a starting package around Groshans and Biggio + 2 lotto picks if they take Grichuk - if not then no Groshans sort of thing - maybe he is replaced by someone out of the top 20 Jays prospects.

Isiah Kiner-Falefa 3.7 WAR Josh Donaldson 3.2 WAR Yanks get 6.9 WAR Gio Urshela 0.6 WAR Gary Sanchez 0.7 WAR Twins get 1.3 WAR Yanks Net Gain 5.6 WAR (based on 2021 Baseball-Reference) Since money doesn't much matter to the Yankees they can overpay on some contracts. In the end - they're a lot better than they were yesterday. Now it's Shapiro and Atkins turn to counterpunch. Trade for Ramirez (6.7 WAR) Sign Freeman (4.7 WAR) Put Vladdy in right field (any idiot with an arm can play right field - Vladdy has an arm) Sign Ryan Tepera (1.8 WAR) Sign Collin McHugh (1.9 WAR) Sign Villar (1.7 WAR) Total 16.8 WAR - we win done deal. 100 win season in a walk. Springer ® CF Ramirez (S) 3B Vladdy ® RF/1B/DH Freeman (L) 1B/DH Bichette ® SS Teoscar ® DH/RF Villar (S) 2B/3B Lourdes Gurriel Jr ® LF Kirk/Jansen/McGuire C Bench: Biggio/Grichuk/Espinal Get er done Ross.

Shout out to 1992 WS MVP Pat Borders - Kind of the unsung Blue Jay. 9 for 20 was pretty good for a mostly no bat catcher. Shout out to George Bell MVP for the Jays in 87 and he was on the team for at least 8 years. I would want players who were longer-term Blue Jays. He was also in the MVP running 3 other times with the Jays. Alomar's 5 years were terrific but I don't feel like he would be the kind of player you would put up as a face of the franchise so talent-wise yes he was great but being a douche-bag and a short run here is enough to drop him in favour of Tony Fernandez who kept coming back and seemed to get a little bit better every time he returned. Halladay, Steib, Bautista, Delgado (Fernandez my runner up). Steib should be in the HOF if Morris is in the HOF. Dave Steib for the 1980s in all of baseball Strikeouts (7th) 126 ERA+ (7th) 92 Complete Games (5th) Wins (2nd) Innings Pitched (2nd) 27 Shutouts (1st) WAR (1st for pitchers) and 8th overall and all 7 position players ahead of him are all in the hall. Started both the 83 and 84 all star games - 6 time all star I mean I am sure we can find worse Hall of Famers no? The Man Who Lost 4 No-Hitters In The 9th Inning

Not sure this has been mentioned but with rumours being the Jays expressed interest in Freeman and teams looking at the younger Olson on the trade front why is it assumed that the Jays would consider moving to Vladdy to 3rd? Certainly, you want him in the field but Vlad isn't the slowest guy in the world and he has a terrific arm so why not consider him in Right Field? I mean they always used to stick the all bat no glove types in the corners. I mean Manny Ramirez and Jose Canseco were big oafs and they managed to win WS titles.

That's a tough contract for an average defensive First baseman - I mean the bat is great and it's not my money so I hope they do it but I also think about Pujols and Prince Fielder and Ryan Howard. Do you want to have a possible albatross for the last 7 years of the deal? Bo Bichette made sense but I was listening to one of those shows where apparently he ranked as the worst starting shortstop on defence. I believe they said he ranked 52nd in SS defence. I understand they were after Seager so it appears they have $30m at least to spend. Now the rumours are Freddy Freeman which makes sense as a bat but nowhere to play. And he will run $30m+ for 7-8 years. Presumably, they have spoken to Correa ($350m/10) but Correa seems to be the best fit as a big-money player because he plays above-average defence and that moves Bo to second or third - if Bo really is as crappy defensively as what the guys on the talk show rate him as then it makes more sense to land Correa - as I doubt they would have offered Seager the money to play second. Even with the right-handed bat.

I mean these kinds of trades are a lark to think about. You'd think if there is one team Votto would be willing to go to it would be Toronto. The fact that it's Toronto a very good team with a very good chance to win is icing on the cake VS playing out his final days on a team likely going nowhere for the rest of his career. The reason I proposed it is that you're basically out of the contracts after 2 years (paying the buyouts). The trouble with some of the free agents is that you may have to go 5-6 years on them (Freeman). Lourdes' contract expires a year earlier than we thought (the end of 2023) https://jaysjournal.com/2021/11/12/blue-jays-lourdes-gurriel-jrs-contract-changes-things/ CBert is correct we create a hole in left that would need to be addressed but corner outfielders are somewhat a dime a dozen. I am a pitching first guy - I really would like the Jays to add one more really good starter to offset the Ryu Decline possibility or Manoah regression or Pearson not being that "can't miss Ace" he was projected to be. I'm not a fan of signing these high risk starters like a Paxton, or Kirby Yates or now looking at Rodon. If there is a way of landing Castillo without shipping out your uppermost top prospects then I'd prefer going that route. Ie, I'll take a Castillo and a Moustakas for $20 million and some prospects over Rodon and $25m for the hope that his iffy arm holds up.

There used to be chatter of the Jays lining up with the Reds on a trade. With the Reds apparently wanting to dump salary and the Jays having the ability to take a bad contract (with upside) perhaps there is some deal there? The Jays are looking to add lefty bats and perhaps they should look at one of those old school mega deals. To the Jays: Luis Castillo is a Berrios type - durable, eats innings - led the league in games started last year - had an abysmal start to the season but otherwise was very good. Controlled through 2024. Arbitration salaries. Joey Votto - If you are going to talk about getting a LH 1b then why not Votto? He is owed $25m each of 2022 and 2023 with a $20m in 2024 (or $7m buyout). He's going to be 38 but his 36 home runs, .375 OBP and .563 slugging is still impressive. From an optics point of view it also helps that he is Canadian and Reds fans on their end would probably be okay with it. (The Jays would be taking a minimum of $57m in commitments) In order to get those prizes, the jays need to take one or both of the following. Mike Moustakas and his -1.0 WAR in 2021 and his below average but not atrocious defence at 3B/2B. He is owed $16m in 2022 and $18m in 2023 whit $20m in 2024 ($4m buyout) So the Jays would be taking a minimum of $38million. Still, he's been a quality player as recently as 2019 and he's another lefty bat. Eugenio Suárez 3B bats right. Huge strikeout guy but still has some upside. Bit Below average defence. He's owed $11,300 in 2022, 2023, 2024 and $15m in 2025 with a $2m buyout. (Jays would take on $35m min). It seems to me that because Votto and Moustakas have shorter commitments their salaries could be absorbed without impacting the signing of Bichete and Vlad. If the Reds are really in salary dump mode they would be dumping $130m on the Jays. Going the other way - you're still going to have to give up a lot because you're getting two very high-quality players in return and two average but hardly terrible players. I think though, that the Jays could offer any number of pretty good players to be enticing enough to get it done without going crazy. Lourdes Gurriel Jr, Alejandro Kirk, Cavan Biggio, Nate Pearson from the on-field roster. Four young cheap quality players From the prospect list - you're probably looking at 1 from our top 10 (Groshans) and 1 from 11-20 - more or less depending on if they're willing to take Grichuk. Big trades usually come out of left field but I think Castillo really bolsters the pitching even more and adding a thumper like Votto from the left side sure would look good. Moustakas and Suarez are overpriced but not black holes. Or you know Sign Correa.

Trade a strength to address a weakness - if you can get a young controllable top of the rotation starter for Kirk - then you do it. But you don't trade him for some #5 dime-a-dozen talent. You can find a place for Kirk if the offers aren't good enough.

The fatty cream rises to the top though. So there may be 500 fatties in the minors and John Kruk rose to make the majors - umm so has Kirk. He is the one fatty out of the hundreds in the minors to make it and succeed at an age way below where he should be. He may break down at 30 but then he's not 30. He could have good value for 8 years. I just wouldn't be in a hurry to dump him unless you are getting some serious talent back. I would not be basing stuff on body type - let's count the thousands of players who are supreme athletes built like a brick shithouse had a cup of coffee in the majors and were never seen again (Ahem Brett Lawrie) - the list is very very long of physical specimens who stunk. Kirk can hit - let him waddle around in left field or just make him a DH.

It's baseball - a great body isn't all that needed - Kirby Pucket, Ryu, Panda, David Wells, Colon, --- a lot of "el tubbos" who were quite respectable MLB players. Granted, Kirk is a catcher - Let's call him Pudge - worked for the Rangers.

A nice youtube video on KG 10 minutes of helpless hitters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDsPocDsmWQ

This assumes the CBA remains the same - knowing our luck they'll change the rules and we'll get zilch.

It's kind of puzzling to me as Ray flashed brilliance and made the all-star team in years past - 2 pitch pitcher or not the guy has electric stuff as witnessed by his two pitches earning him a Cy Young. Mariano Rivera had one pitch, David Wells was mostly a 2 pitch guy. The money and years and opt-out I can't think would be an issue. Maybe they liked Gausman more but I am not really sure why. The only thing left is that there must have been an issue with Ray's relationship with the Jays. Of course, it may have been family and location reasons. I understand why people move from Toronto to British Columbia for their retirement for example.

I wasn't really saying that - though I understand why some would take it that way - it's just that AA gets dumped on here a bit so was trying to defend him by noting that so far he has done what the goal here has been - win a WS. I get all the numbers - if the Jays were in the NL East we'd be in the playoffs - hell if it were just a balanced schedule and we didn't play Tampa, New York and Boston 19 teams (albeit we do also get Baltimore) then we'd probably be in the playoffs. Boras went off his nut about the crappy way a team like Atlanta won. As for luck - there is a saying that you have to be good to be lucky. There is a lot of luck in baseball - still, as I linked earlier - AA made several moves electing to not chuck in the season - they were 5 out and with their franchise player done for the year and it was AA who decided to go for it anyway. I think it's hard to then say well it was just luck - luck is doing nothing and it all works out. This doesn't mean I don't like Shatkins - At the beginning of the year last year no one expected them to be a playoff team and they were. I don't think anyone saw 91 wins this year coming and they were one of the 2-3 best teams in baseball the last 40 games or so. For the most part, they're doing all the right things. In the end, I suppose it is a difference in philosophies - would I like to be a team that is a .500 club for 10 years with say 2 playoff appearances and a WS title or a .600 team that makes the playoffs ten times with 0 WS titles. I take the former. Shatkins have plenty of time - great core, really nice rotation, improving pen. Players like the manager even if the rest of Canada doesn't.

The game is about winning the WS - Atlanta may be in a weak division but it was AA's trades that made them into a WS contender - his team after the trade deadline was significantly better than the first half team - and they won without their best star player. AA built a team that could beat the Astros who beat the top teams in the American League. Some teams are built to be the best teams in a 162 game season and some teams are built to win a WS when they actually get into the playoffs. One of the reasons I harp on having dominating pitching is because dominating pitching can shut down the best offense. I think Shatkins is doing a better job in terms of long term success but the goal is winning a WS and yes the Jays are in the AL East and Atlanta is in a weak division - still AA had to build a team that could beat the best teams in the playoffs and they did - and without their franchise player. AA's dealing in Atlanta covered here https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-2021-trade-deadline-moves-world-series-title Like I say - I'd still rather Shatkins but credit where credit is due - winning a WS is the ONLY thing that matters - not Billy Beane's oh so close but always the bridesmaid results. Winning and only winning a WS is what counts. And let's not be too hard on ATL - they won a mere 3 fewer games than the Jays - if the Jays had managed to squeak in and win the WS and beat 100 win teams we would not be saying it was a fluke. It would be because of the good moves by Atkins to land Cimber and Richards and Berrios.

World Series winning teams. Alex Anthopolous 1 Shatikins 0 Winning the off season - but AA won the trade deadline and put together a WS team. I'm happy with Shatkins but just saying - results is results.

Ray would look good about now. Ray Gausman Berrios Manoah Ryu With our offense - man that would be a powerhouse.

Gee kind of lot happened in 5 minutes lol.

What are people's thoughts on Gray - it seems odd that his numbers were worse on the road than at Coors. What's up with that?

In terms of money I believe Texas is a no income tax state so $175million there is a lot more money than making $175million in Toronto. And since Semien went with Boras - money is a major factor. It's funny though because Semien was talking Toronto up being a winning team and having a great workout facility etc. Then signs with a pretty bad baseball team. Although they'll be much better with Semien.

I look at him as a bit of a mixed bag - he led the NL in strikeouts - 184 against 28 walks. A .319 OBP. I wouldn't want to give him a 9 figure contract. When Atkins talked about a different kind of line-up with a different attack - Baez isn't it. Corey Seager seems exactly what Atkins was talking about - lefty bat - high OBP and better hitter overall than Baez and doesn't strike out. Granted he may cost more - quality usually does.

Thanks - that's an excellent point - I completely forgot about our huge run differential and it was frustrating that our pen was imploding. Our pen is much better now with Richards and Cimber and Garcia than the dregs we had to start last season (and unfortunate injuries to some of our best BP arms.

Shapiro did say the team has the ability to spend up to the Luxury Tax. Not that they will, but they can. That indicates they can if the right opportunities present themselves. $30m comes off the books in 2 years (Ryu and Grichuck) which helps.

I find it a bit odd that Ray isn't being mentioned more in the trade rumours - Gausman is mentioned everywhere. hmm.