Olerud363

The Upton comparison seemed a little odd. Given Upton was in his 4th season contending for an MVP at Mckinney's age. I'm honestly not for or against McKinney, and I agree he looks really good. It's only 7 games but he seems pretty patient and has that classic left handed "sweet swing". Of course it's only been 7 games, his minor league numbers are average, and the prospect guys don't seem to love him (18th in the Jays system).

Why not Mitch Hanniger?? Or Trey Mancini?? Or Bobby Higginson?? Compare him to other Bobby's. You can probably find 10 Bobby's who are better comparisons then Justin Upton. Or if you think Justin Upton is the ultimate comparison, then accept the fact he already missed Upton's 19 through 23 seasons, and is starting 4 seasons later. So find the guys who are like Justin Upton but started later. Who would that be?? Alex Rios?? Or Kole Calhoun. Why not Kole Calhoun?? Is there any reason the comparison isn't Kole Calhoun?? What's the reason????

I like the comparisons, go for broke and compare him to the best in the game. There are a lot of different ways to approach this. 1. Realistic - compare McKinney to players who hit like him in the minors and got 100 at bats as a 23 year old. 2. Optimistic - compare McKinney to players who hit like him in the minors and surprised us in the majors. 3. Racist - compare McKinney to players who are the same race and handedness as him. 4. Ridiculous - compare McKinney to the best players in the game. But Justin Upton?? It's just so completely random.

I'm sure you remember that Floyd was the best prospect in all of baseball http://www.thebaseballcube.com/prospects/byYear.asp?Y=1994&Src=BA Just pointing it out, because I am sure a lot of the younger posters don't remember that. And forget that Alex Gonzales (ss) used to be a hugely rated prospect. His age 20 aa season was very close to Bo's. There were differences. Gonzales didn't have the overall hitting record Bo does, but was more highly regarded as a short stop. Mckinney is the Jays 18th overall prospect http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=tor It is pretty exciting that our 18th overall prospect is getting compared to former baseball America number 1 overall prospects.

I would have to say that this is quite interesting. I don't know what it means yet, but I like the effort. There is a complicated message in there, and it might take some time to understand it. hmmmm... maybe your just trying to show me what my posts look like to the rest of you. Kind of weird, kind of out there, kind of all over the place.

I was thinking about that. And maybe it's unfair only to compare McKinney to right handed hitters too. What about Marcel Ozuna?? Does that work better than the Upton comparison?? I think so. Ozuna started at 22, not 19, so he's closer to the age McKinney started. So I think Ozuna is a good comparison if you don't want to be racist.

I'm also putting WAMCO and Deadpool in the no camp. They answered in sentences, which I find easier to understand then gifs, mems and fragments, but it is always possible I misunderstood, so as always correct me if I am wrong. A Mckinney/Teoscar platoon would be interesting that's for sure, and would inevitably bring about fond memories of past platoons, Jonhson/Cat, Mullinicks/Iorg, etc. Mckinney is the next Justin Upton - 3 Mckinney is not the next Justin Upton - 4

That look says to me "Billy Mckinney the next Upton?? Pardon me??" So I will put you in the "No, Billy Mckinney is not the next Upton camp". Let me know if misunderstood. Like I said I don't quite get the gifs all the time. Running talley Pro "Mckinney is the next Upton" - 3 Con "Mckinney is not the next Upton" -2

Great response Farm. I am going to translate these responses, as I don't have a good grasp of meme's, gifs and "yobros" (slang for very short replies). Grant's thoughts - Billy Mckinney's number one comparable is Justin Upton. Olerud363 thought's - Billy Mckinney's best comparables are guys like Higginson, Jaque Jones, and Fred Lewis, likely more to the Lewis side of things. Farm's thoughts - "cool" (translation, this thread insults me, Mckinney is obviously Justin Upton, other comparables are a bad idea) Krylian's thoughts - "Data giving an odd look" (translation, this thread insults me, McKinney is obviously Justin Upton, other comparables are a bad idea). I am very much a fan of crowd sourcing. At first I thought Grant's Justin Upton comparison was so strange he must have ulterior motives. However now it seems a lot of people agree with him. I'll keep a running talley. My thought is that Billy McKinney is comparable to Justin Upton - 3 posters have agreed with this through words, meme's or a "yobro". My thought is that Billy McKinney is not comparable to Justin Upton - 1 poster (using words) has conveyed this view.

That's a great response Krylian. So do you then agree that Billy Mckinney is the next Justin Upton? It seems you do?? Unlike the newer generation, I am not comfortable communicating with gif's so I will attempt to translate Data's odd look into your words, just to make sure I can understand what you are saying. TRANSLATION OF KRYLIAN'S GIF BEGINS I have this to say. It is so obvious that Billy Mckinney is the next Justin Upton that there is no need to discuss it. The number of words dedicated to the subject insults me. I will not even bother to give a reply. Here is a picture of Data giving an odd look. The idea of "comparables" that one player's performance can be deduced by the similar players that came before insults me, as it should any decent human being. This discussion must end. From this day forth we will only communicate in gifs and memes. TRANSLATION OF KRYLIAN'S GIF ENDS Give me a holler if I got your translation wrong. Just throw out a different gif that better convey's your idea and I'll translate it. Eventually you'll get the right gif to convey your thoughts.

Also, before this gets out of hand, I don't think he's Bobby Higginson, that's like the ultimate best case. More often then not guys like McKinney just become Fred Lewis. Again it would be awesome if he surprises us. Also. I realize if I start dissing McKinney I'll sound like Tercet dissing Teoscar. The problem I have with Tercet, isn't that he's wrong, it's just that he could say the same thing about every average outfield prospect. Teoscar, McKinney, Alford, Wall, Pompey, Lundquist in a couple of years... 1. None of them are Justin Upton. They are all atleast 2 years older than Upton was when he established himself in the majors. 2. If you want to be right on average just predict they'll all fail or be mediocre. 3. If you are an expert scout prove it by picking out the one that will surprise, and going and on about him through thick and thin, until he finally surprises us all by becoming a (late blooming) version of Justin Upton.

I've seen a bunch of Billy Mckinney is the next Justin Upton comments. I'm well aware this is a reference to Grant comparing McKinney to Upton, however is Grant just being passive aggressive because of a previous discussion on Justin Upton?? Like I kind of remember Grant dissing Upton in the past, and now this is his way to show us all that Upton isn't that great, Upton is at about the level of a 15th rated prospect. Why else would you compare a 15th rated, 23 year old, left handed outfielder, without great speed, to a guy who was a teenage sensation, number 1 overall prospect, is headed for a 50 WAR career?? Upton is a guy who will have 50 WAR, and we're all dissapointed, because he was so athletic and highly rated. McKinney is a guy who if he pulls of 15 WAR it would be amazing. I spent 20 minutes looking for the best McKinney comparables. I wanted to be fair and come up with a top end, middle range, and lower range comparables. I wanted to compare him to left handed batters, as it will effect his playing time (guys like McKinney are often platooned and became 120 game guys). I wanted to compare him to guys who began at the same age (23-25). I came up with Bobby Higginson (high end 23 career WAR), Jacque Jones (14 WAR), and Fred Lewis (4 WAR). Why again are we comparing McKinney to Upton??

If they call him up now they lose the fourth arbitration year. If they call up in mid april they lose a 4th cheap year. If they call him in june 2019 they get the most bang for their money let's look at the scenarios 1. Vlad Guerrero plays for Blue Jays from September 2018 to end of 2024 at which point he plays for the Boston Red Sox until 2041. 2. Vlad Guerrero plays for the Blue Jays from mid April 2019 to end of 2025 at which point he plays for the Boston Red Sox until 2041. (2025 is a 4th arbitration year and expensive) 3. Vlad Guerrero plays for the Blue Jays from mid June 2019 to end of 2025. at which point he plays for the Boston Red Sox until 2041. (in scenario 3 He plays for a couple less months, but is cheaper, 3.7ish cheap years, 3 arb years.) 4. Vlad Guerrero plays for the Blue Jays from xxxx to 2041. At which point he retires Which xxxx optimizes the chances of scenario 4?? Or do we care?? It's fine with us that Vlad, being a fat man with bad knees, joins the Red Sox at the same age Pablo did, we just want his good years as cheap as possible.

A bit of both. I have no idea if he could manage or not, I just can't recalling any instance where an established star went right to being a manager. However it's pretty common for x-players to be coaches in spring training. For example I believe George Bell and Tim Raines did it. A-Rod transitioned from being a 25 million dollar a year player to being a coach.

A-rod retired and moved to a personal service contract. He kind of coaches for the Yankees. However I think they still paid him his full salary.., and I donÂ’t believe it helped their cap situation or anything. Tulos not going to manage. He could become a spring training coach. It would get him off the 40 man. Actually they may end up releasing him and paying him full salary... because I donÂ’t think he can be on the 60 day disabled list in the offseason.

Pablo had a couple of years of 10 or so on defense. Prince Fielder was -20 every year. I canÂ’t really recall too many other big fat guys with really good hand eye coordination or iÂ’d Look them up too. Frank Thomas?? DhÂ’d from a young age I think.

150 at bats tells us nothing. And unless your planning to sit Pillar and Grichuk as well you can't give all three 150 at bats between now and the end of the year. We identified what Teoscar was in August 2017, then wasted 550 plate appearances on him anyway, when we could of been developing guys who had more potential. Giving Alford, Pompey, and Mcknney 50 at bats each this year, then 100 next year is a complete waste. Identify who is the next Teoscar, and who has the most potential, and play the one with the who we think can best adjust to mlb pitching.

Now that I think about it, one of the scouting types on the board identified, presumably correctly, that McKinney is very comparable to Justin Upton. Assuming this is correct, it makes a lot of sense then, to just be done with it and commit to him.

Why waste at bats on all three of them. You were able to identify what Teoscar was over a year ago. I don't want to waste any more at bats on a guy who can't put up a .300 on base percentage. Enough looking at the numbers. It's a waste of time. We can accelerate the rebuild if we identify which of Pompey/McKinney/Alford is really a good player, and give that guy 600 at bats next year. Which one is it?? Any idiot can read the stats. Let's just identify which one is going to be good, and give the September at bats to that guy and get him ready for next year.

I remember Bill James wrote an short essay about this in the McGriff-Bell era. To parapharase, he basically said if you want McGriff to hit .280 .530 with 100 walks and 90 RBIs, hit him behind Bell, if you want him to hit .280 .530 with 90 walks and 100 RBIs hit him in front of Bell.

As of today Texas has the most LOBs. Often the team with the highest on base percentage has the most LOBs. Though Boston only has the third most (they must be clutch). Toronto is actually third last in LOBs but only 5th last in on base percentage. That seems good to me. Toronto does not seem to have the highest stat in LOBs (or MLOB if that is the proper acronym). I don't even think if you normalized it as a percentage of guys on base (PMLOBs) they would have the worst. I really don't want to waste my time calculating MLOB/(hits + walks + hbp). However maybe someone can invite her to the board and she can crunch the numbers to either prove or disprove her hypothesis (or maybe just find the number somewhere).

Could someone explain this to me again... 1. If Vladimir Guerrero is given good pitches to hit, he is a .330 .400 .550 hitter. 2. Vladimir has no protection, the pitchers don't have to pitch to him, so they use a new pitching pattern where he gets no pitches to hit. a) Vladimir is patient, he ends up being a .315 .450 .530 hitter. He doesn't swing at the bad pitches so gets loads of walks, maybe he loses a little bit of average and power. Maybe not. or Vladimir is not really as patient as we think, the new pattern makes him a .270 .330 .450 hitter if a) it's not a problem as Vlad is still awesome. If he's screwed anyway because in this day and age they'll just use the "no pitches to hit" pitching pattern regardless of who's behind him, if it really makes him a worse hitter.

Not to be a negative nancy here, but maybe his "groove" and the "off days" both have the same cause... It may be his knees are still hurting a bit. I admit I was a bit of a maniac about the injury issue. However I stand by that point, the risk with Guerrero is mostly injury and health. If he's a dissapointment it will be because of injuries. He's a supremely talented hitter, and if healthy he should be a star. I don't see him playing 155 games a year AND being a disspointment. His road to failure is injury related. a) he's not on the field enough and when on the field the injuries effect his performance. Kind of like what happened to Nick Johnson. Nick Johnson was the last milb hitter to have the kind of video game numbers at 19/20 that Vlad does. Hopefully he's fully healthy and goes into Pujols mode for the next 10 years.

In my opinion, if Gibby doesn't buy into this kind of scheme, it's one reason to legitimately part ways. I realize Gibby has been a seemingly good sport about this, as we've seen several bullpen days, and one "opener" day (Clippard I believe) followed by a nice outing by some fringe guy (in Seattle, can't even remember the dudes name now). However if Gibby doesn't believe in this, in his heart, that may be a reason to let him go. Just because if his heart isn't in it, he may not be able to implement the policy effectively. On the other hand if Gibby is all for this new wave stuff, maybe he stays. In 2019 there will be a bunch of intriguing guys, but no one who is a top prospect, or has proven they can handle a conventional starters role effectively. Even Stroman, may not be able to handle 200 innings year after year. Sanchez, Stroman, Bourcki, SRF, Pannone, Perez, Zouch... And what about Pearson?? Next year Pearson will be in a similar situation as Osuna and Miguel Castro were going into 2015. I beleive at least Osuna was mostly injured in 2014. Could Pearson be an "opener" for 2019?? Could you get him 90-100 innings as an opener?? Maybe going every 3-4 days, 1-3 innings an outing depending on the situation?

where did he come from? - he came from the Cleveland minor league system and before that the Domincan Republic. He hit .300 as a minor leaguer. He played a lot of minor league games in the United States as a teenager. That is ussually a good sign. how did he become so MVP the minute he hit the majors? - he did not become MVP the minute he hit the majors. He hit the majors 5 years ago, in 2013, the year Dickey and Jose Reyes, and Josh Johnson were failing for the Blue Jays. In 2013 he was in the majors and bad, in 2014 he was in the majors and bad, in 2015 he was in the majors and bad, in 2016 he was in the majors and good, in 2017 he was in the majors and an all star and MVP candidate. It took him three years to become good, and four years to become an MVP candidate. It did not take a minute. In 2018 he has stepped up again. He now hits many homeruns. I don't know why he hit's so many homeruns. The rest of it makes sense. Line drive .300 hitter with 3 homers a year in the minors, often becomes line drive .300 hitter with 15 homers in the majors. This year he might hit 45 and win the homer title... that part is a surprise.