Dick_Pole

As a fan, I use to enjoy the HOF vote. A nice break in winter half way between the World Series being over and Spring Training beginning. Interesting to see who got in versus who was left out and why. Now it's just become increasingly more idiotic and less relevant each year it's not even worth paying attention to. I totally forgot about the vote this year until I saw this thread. I see that only two guys got in, one of them being Piazza with the other being obviously Griffey. That's all I need to know that the vote is still at the height of its stupidity. There's nothing more I can add, it's already been covered by previous posts. Just a very, very stupid process and it's taken one of baseball's time-honoured traditions and turned it into a joke and a place where people can snub deserving players for political/ethical stances.

Neither will last 500 games. For the starting pitcher that's pretty good. For the position player not so much.

If everyone had only the bad decisions they made at work highlighted in one argument, they'd look pretty s***** at their job too. Some good moves made by AA in the early years: Locking up Bautista, EE, Escobar, dumping Wells' contract (yeah, yeah I know someone is going to say he was the beneficiary of the Angels' stupidity...but if it wasn't AA, I'm sure someone else would have had a former good player with a bad contract to dump onto them, credit goes to AA for being there first), Morrow trade, Delabar trade, good drafts with reasonable signing bonuses and taking advantage of the comp pick loopholes. The fairest way to compare his tenure is to take all the excess value from the good, subtract the negative value from the bad and see how things pan out. The Marlins trade is going to make it an uphill battle for him though.

How many people go this many steps down the totem pole then recover back to their former position? Regardless of the organization, this steep demotion just looks bad. He'd have been better off taking the year off if he has aspirations of being a GM. If this was a desperation move to score an income, then his offseason behaviour was a huge lapse in judgement. If this was an intentional move to follow his passion or for more work-life balance, then more power to him. The only people who can judge if this was a stupid/desperate decision or not is himself and his family. I guess we might have a hint in hindsight if he returns to looking like the man from 2010, or if he still resembles a Goodyear blimp this time next year.

So...what...you're saying is...the Jays have the next Ty Cobb? Sweet! List of players who have had at least one .410 or better BABIP season: Babe Ruth George Sisler Rogers Hornsby Ty Cobb Harry Heilmann Chris Colabello I like where this is headed. Extra props to Cola for being the first player to do it in 90 years. Last time it happened was back when baseball gloves were made of corn stalks and duct tape.

Signs you know your thread is doomed: ....when the resident unpopular troll account scores major points off of you.

Remember during the summer some guy who worked at OPG got fired for saying that stupid "f*** you in the pussy" meme to a female reporter in front of cameras at a TFC game. So there is enough precedent for people getting admonished/fired at work for behaviour unbecoming to their employer, even outside of work hours and not using corporate resources, and not just famous people either.

???

They already had to reduce the exponent to less than 2 to account for the impact that high scoring teams/eras have greater possibility of more variance and therefore more losses (or wins for a negative variance) than expected given a certain run differential. If its still a consistent issue then maybe the Pythag calculation needs to be adjusted some more? The argument shouldn't be that superior pitching teams with corresponding inferior offenses consistently outperform high scoring teams with poor pitching, but that Pythag should be adjusted further to reflect the possibility of random variance. http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/baseball-reference-faqs/ Pythagorean winning percentage is an estimate of a team's winning percentage given their runs scored and runs allowed. Developed by Bill James, it can tell you when teams were a bit lucky or unlucky. It is calculated by (Runs Scored)^1.83 --------------------------------------------------------- (Runs Scored)^1.83 + (Runs Allowed)^1.83 The traditional formula uses an exponent of two, but this has proven to be a little more accurate.

The BP has been atrocious going into the season in prior years, but the difference is the Jays had several holes to fill across the diamond along with the BP. Unless an ace magically falls into their lap through a trade, pretty much all the time and excess cash resources between now and the end of spring training will be focused on improving the pen. I am not going to worry about it until mid-March and it still looks this bad.

Not gonna be an issue when the Jays are up 10-3 by the 6th inning in all of those games

I agree with the sentiment. I honestly don't care what others consume as long as it doesn't bug me. My ultimate concern as a non-pot smoker nor smoker of any kind of substance is that weed is a lot more pungent and carries further than tobacco smoke. The current laws which work pretty well for tobacco in terms of limiting exposure and the irritating impact of second hand smoke are not sufficient for marijuana.

Yayyyyy, look what I started! I don't know what kind of high school system people went to, but alcohol was perfectly easy to get one's hands on based on what I saw. Plus the alcohol versus weed debate ignores one key factor when looking only at their legal status - weed in little baggies is just a lot more portable than a mickey of booze, and thus easier to sneak around with. Cigarettes were a lot more prevalent at my high school than either of those two and they are regulated in the same way as alcohol.

I think people are focusing too much on RealAccountant's troll status and poor reasoning/communication skills and are overlooking that he has a valid point. Osuna has a chance to reach free agency the same time as Heyward. He pitched last year deserving of a MLB roster spot at least going into spring training. The Jays are in win-now mode with ok depth at starting pitching and weak depth at relief. We all hope that Osuna can develop into a starter. But based on his injury history and lack of workload to date there's no guarantee this ever happens. But what the Jays have in him right now is a perfectly capable late inning reliever who should only get better with time. Now I'm optimistic that the Jays can fill out RP roles so if the team has 7 good relievers at the end of March excluding Osuna, by all means try to make him into a starter in the minors. But if there is not, there's no way this team should be creating a hole just for the *chance* that Osuna turns into a good starter. If the season goes to hell, sure look to what Osuna can do for the team in 2018 or 2019. But right now the team has to bring its best 25-man roster to Toronto in April, player development comes secondary.

I stated very clearly my argument is about recreational pot use. Those people who haven't been prescribed under MMPR for mental health, or otherwise.

I don't disagree with you, but almost every somewhat credible argument in favour of pot starts off with "but alcohol and tobacco is worse". That's not a pro-pot argument, that's an anti-alcohol and tobacco stance.

Anyone who needs some sort of stimulant everyday to feel "happy" is not living a happy life.

You're right. And every notable source not slobbered on by Marc Emery cites recreational marijuana use largely a negative contributor to mental health. Oil baron that stands to gain millions from sweeping global warming under the rug: A lying scumbag that will destroy our planet in favor of greedy short term gains. Marc Emery and his ilk, who stand to gain millions from legalization of pot: Oh, they seem legit with no selfish motives, let's believe everything they say. Let's just call the pot movement for what it is. A group of common business interests banning together behind some popular social movement based much more on feelings than on facts, and a government that sees an easy tax grab and a chance to look "progressive". Any legitimate medical benefit from marijuana should obviously be followed up on to the maximum extent possible. But that's not what this movement is about. The ideal utility of marijuana in medicine would have absolutely no recreational impact whatsoever.

People quickly call out the misinformation and obfuscation of the facts on global warming by oil company-backed scientists and others with interests in seeing carbon continuing to pollute our atmosphere. But when the pro-marijuana side does the same thing, those people are silent or are in support of it. As a whole, recreational pot smoking is unquestionably negative when it comes to impact on one's health. No reputable medical source will come to any other conclusion.

Not physically addictive: Ok, tell a regular recreational pot smoker to quit for a month and they'll look at you like you're from outer space. Medical uses: I did not have anything negative to say about people who use it for medical reasons. Just like any other medicine, people don't want to bring public attention unto themselves and will consume it in the privacy of their own home or very minimally in public in emergency situations. Smoking is not the only way to consume it: Of course not. But the conversation of this thread is clearly about smoking it in public places and crowds, and it turned to conversation where people might try to take advantage of this legal loophole to act like selfish, annoying *******s in public. Not that I believe they would succeed in large numbers. I thought it was pretty clear who I was targeting in my rant. Rather than calling me an uneducated ******* about people who use marijuana for medical purposes, you should actually read what I wrote.

I'm sure the vast, vast majority of people who use it for medical purposes have no interest in doing so publicly, especially where it would cause a stir. Like a diabetic who would stick themselves with a needle at a Jays game would only do so only if absolutely necessary. Really, what's someone going to do in the stands? Wave a doctor's note at the 50 closest people and yell, "No, it's ok, I can smoke this, I'm f***ed up!!!"? I can imagine that some dickhead who thinks it's his right or that it's cool to annoy people with his disgusting addiction might try to get a doctor's note to take advantage of this loophole, though. When I was in Cuba with a pal a few weeks ago we met some hosers who were bragging about how they managed to sneak weed into the country. Some chemical process or something to make it scentless even to the drug mutts (I love how potheads suddenly turn into Einstein when it comes to finding ways to smoke pot 24/7). After they explained it all, my buddy got this serious look on his face said he was a cop doing undercover work there and stated that the guys can get 25 years in a Cuban prison for this. The guys' faces turned white as snow until my friend admitted he was just f***ing with them. It was hilarious. But yeah, that's the mindset of a pothead. Risk a serious criminal offense smuggling drugs into a country that's not known for its prisoner's rights and then brag about it to any person that you just met like you're the coolest person on earth.

Then why create a thread/poll about it in the first place? What's your next trade scenario poll? Trout for Kawasaki?

Third option, three-way trade. Third team gets Donaldson.

This thread will not end well.

Unless 2016 has as much bad luck as 2013, the Jays are in contention or at least over .500 (aka in contention by July). Even if 2013 epic-level of injuries and underperformance did occur, we can't reasonably expect the MIF and C positions to be as much as a clusterf*** even if Martin, Tulo and Travis were to all miss significant amounts of time, simply because the front office would be able to find better replacement players than what we saw in 2013. So the chances of any vets being traded at the deadline is almost nil, save for the possibility of MLB talent for MLB talent. Looking ahead to 2017: C, 2B, SS, 3B and CF are all covered, barring injury, stupid trade or unexpected decline, and we're looking at broadly somewhere between 15-25 WAR combined from those spots. Those are always the hardest spots to fill too, so that's a pretty good situation to be in. Colabello, Smoak, Revere, Pompey, Alford or like players will be used to fill out the roster. Now assuming the Jays lose both EE and JB, is it really that hard to find one or two more guys who can replace them at RF, 1B or DH at 105 RC+? Hell, if the Jays get lucky they might already have one in Smoak or Colabello, and can use the $24M in payroll saved from not paying EE or JB to augment with one 105 RC+ guy and a SP. This is assuming there is room in the budget to pay raises due to JD and RM from new cash and not out of the existing $140M bucket, likely in the ~$15M range. Even if that's not the case, $10M should be plenty to find some slightly above average guy. An Adam Lind type of player. So on the position player side, I think the Jays are in a great spot in 2017, much better than most teams, with or without JB or EE. Even if they replace them with guys who roll out 1.5 to 3 WAR, we're still looking at an offense/defense that's upside is >30 WAR and realistically at least 20 WAR. So at a minimum the Jays are still a top 10 offense, with the possibility of being #1 going into 2017. Like I said that's barring any significant injury or decline, but all teams are equally subject to those caveats. Now pitching is a lot more iffy. Stroman should mature into the ace. Happ...I like him...but being conservative he's not going to be much more than #4. Hutch and Sanchez....who the f*** knows what they'll be up to. Does Dickey get re-signed if he's decent in 2016? Does he want to retire? Osuna should either be a good closer or a plausible starter. So at a minimum the Jays have 2 starting pitchers. If they get lucky they'll have 6 or 5 plus a closer. Relief pitching I'm least concerned about. There will always be a Delabar waiting somewhere. But even if the pitching is lousy with 10 WAR and position players are good at 25 WAR, that puts the team on the cusp of contention. There really is not a strong argument in thinking the Jays will suck donkey balls in 2017. Especially since a lot can happen in those 16 months, presumably for the better if the front office is as good as everybody thinks. EDIT: Totally forgot about Estrada. So three SP on the roster for 2017, plus Hutch, Sanchez and Osuna and Dickey being a 50-50.