Red Sox (Gray) vs Blue Jays (Taillon): 08/10/26, 7:07 PM

[hanton]

SWR and BV were the quickest off the field (SWR is already in the dugout and BV right behind him) after the out at 1st, the other players followed.  So not sure when JS asked for the appeal.  Notice the umps haven't moved.

If JS asked for an appeal all he had to do was send SWR back out to the mound BEFORE all the players crossed into foul territory - then execute the appeal.  but SWR is in the dugout

Big Mac might have been the only one ready for the appeal at 3rd - he's still on the bag

 

[Masterbather]

21 minutes ago, Omar said:

It has happened once previously in the past decade.  Coupled with the scoreboard confusion,  it has never happened in the history of the game. 

That is a fair stretch from "baseball stuff we see all the time".

The scoreboard stuff is irrelevant because that's on the players if they trusted the scoreboard. We see appeal plays all the time and we see tag plays all the time and we know what it means if a guy crosses home before the 3rd out is made. 

All the baseball stuff was straightforward, I guess it was just a weird combination that confused people but if you know your baseball it was pretty apparent pretty quickly what happened and those umpires should know their baseball. 

 

[Brownie19]

34 minutes ago, hanton said:

SWR and BV were the quickest off the field (SWR is already in the dugout and BV right behind him) after the out at 1st, the other players followed.  So not sure when JS asked for the appeal.  Notice the umps haven't moved.

If JS asked for an appeal all he had to do was send SWR back out to the mound BEFORE all the players crossed into foul territory - then execute the appeal.  but SWR is in the dugout

Big Mac might have been the only one ready for the appeal at 3rd - he's still on the bag

I don't think the pitcher was even necessary to appeal the play.  He's only needed if time was called (where by he'd have to go to the mound to put the ball back in play and then step off again).  Obviously time wasn't called after the 3rd out.  

Someone just had to run over with the ball, announce they were appealing the tag up at 3rd and step on the bag.

[Laika]

9 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

I don't think the pitcher was even necessary to appeal the play.  He's only needed if time was called (where by he'd have to go to the mound to put the ball back in play and then step off again).  Obviously time wasn't called after the 3rd out.  

Someone just had to run over with the ball, announce they were appealing the tag up at 3rd and step on the bag.

Yup and they should have 

Kind of a lack of veteran presents on display

If some old vet was at 3B he probably would have been screaming for the ball to be thrown over 

[John_Havok]

1 hour ago, Masterbather said:

The scoreboard stuff is irrelevant because that's on the players if they trusted the scoreboard. We see appeal plays all the time and we see tag plays all the time and we know what it means if a guy crosses home before the 3rd out is made. 

All the baseball stuff was straightforward, I guess it was just a weird combination that confused people but if you know your baseball it was pretty apparent pretty quickly what happened and those umpires should know their baseball. 

 

Just a guess on my part but i think the delay was deciding what to do when they realized they never gave the Jays the opportunity to appeal given the confusion of the outs. 

They probably realized early enough in the process what the rules say and the run should score, butvtheybalso realized they dun f*cked up in the way they handled it.

Its almost reminiscnet of a playoff game i recall where a catcher threw the ball back to the pitcher. But the hitter, who was in the batters box, had stuck his arm and bat out a bit to adjust his sleeve and the ball hit the bat and rolled on to the field. Defense reacted initially to get the ball while the runner from third started home but then the home plate ump waved evrything off and declared the play dead so the defense stopped trying to get the ball though the runner continued and crossed home plate. Thats situation took a while to resolve too and the run scored, as it should by the rulebook. Defense argues they were robbed of the opportunity to make the out because the ump declared the play dead so they stopped trying. That situation wasnt quick to resolve either even though the rules were pretty clear and the umps just bungled the on-field play while it happened.

Very memorable. Easily the single most memorable thing about that otherwise boring game. 

[Terminator]

13 hours ago, Masterbather said:

Still don't really understand what the confusion was that led to that kind of delay. 

The Blue Jays threw to the wrong base and the guy scored before the appeal at first and wasn't himself appealed. What's the confusion?

What is Schneider talking about regarding them not having a chance to appeal the guy at third? Once Vlad stepped on the bag at first there was no chance to appeal anymore, the inning was over. Even if they tried to appeal at third there's nothing to appeal. There's no fourth out in baseball.

Ridiculous that people were confused and ridiculous that the delay was that long. This was pretty simple baseball.

It's called the 4th out rule. After appealing at 1st, they could also have appealed at 3rd. Appealing at 1st does not preclude them from also appealing at 3rd.

[John_Havok]

7 minutes ago, Terminator said:

It's called the 4th out rule. After appealing at 1st, they could also have appealed at 3rd. Appealing at 1st does not preclude them from also appealing at 3rd.

Exactly. 

The reason as to why they need to appeal at 3rd, even though theres already 3 outs, is what confuses people.

The fact that he never tagged at 3rd bjt still crossed the plate before the 3rd out means the run scores. Getting a runner out from failing to tag is NOT a force out. So, since its not a force out, the run would score by rule definition that only a 3rd out force out would negate a run that has already crossed the plate before the 3rd out.

The need to appeal to 3rd to get the "4th out" is exactly why the rule exists.

 

[Masterbather]

45 minutes ago, Terminator said:

It's called the 4th out rule. After appealing at 1st, they could also have appealed at 3rd. Appealing at 1st does not preclude them from also appealing at 3rd.

Yes, I admit I had forgotten that rule myself, I remember hearing about it a long time ago but it totally slipped my mind. It didn't end up mattering because the Blue Jays never appealed anyhow. 

It does seem like the whole delay was really about the umpire trying to cover his ass if he did in fact indicate that the run didn't count but what's the point? If you screwed up, you screwed up. Make a ruling and stand by it.

[Terminator]

1 hour ago, John_Havok said:

Just a guess on my part but i think the delay was deciding what to do when they realized they never gave the Jays the opportunity to appeal given the confusion of the outs. 

They probably realized early enough in the process what the rules say and the run should score, butvtheybalso realized they dun f*cked up in the way they handled it.

Yes this is a big part of what lead to the 17 minute delay.

I do think Schneider should have been all over this and had Vlad step on the 3B bag as he walked off the field as well. The rule is fairly clear (even if not very well known) and it's better safe then sorry.

But the umps deserve plenty of blame as well because they didn't count the run until AFTER the play on the field ended.

The home plate ump didn't signal safe when the runner crossed home (I don't know if that matters), he threw a new ball onto the mound before the players were off the field (play is still live and he's throwing a new ball onto the field? That signals the play is over right?), and then he waives off the run a split second before Vlad (the last infielder) crosses the foul line.

So the ump obviously didn't know the rule either, and as a result what exactly are the Jays supposed to be challenging/appealing here? How can you challenge/appeal that a run has scored when the ump didn't actually score the run until the middle of the inning? Are you supposed to preeminently challenge/appeal everything just in case the ump reverses course later on in the game?

By the time it had gotten to MLB it was a mess and there wasn't really any correct answer at that point.

[Terminator]

7 minutes ago, Masterbather said:

Yes, I admit I had forgotten that rule myself, I remember hearing about it a long time ago but it totally slipped my mind. It didn't end up mattering because the Blue Jays never appealed anyhow. 

It does seem like the whole delay was really about the umpire trying to cover his ass if he did in fact indicate that the run didn't count but what's the point? If you screwed up, you screwed up. Make a ruling and stand by it.

Yeah all good. I didn't even know about the rule and was losing my mind during the game. After I read into it I do think the umps still screwed it all up but the Jays should have been all over it. It didn't seem like they were going to challenge even if the home plate ump handled it better.

[hanton]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

I don't think the pitcher was even necessary to appeal the play.  He's only needed if time was called (where by he'd have to go to the mound to put the ball back in play and then step off again).  Obviously time wasn't called after the 3rd out.  

Someone just had to run over with the ball, announce they were appealing the tag up at 3rd and step on the bag.

Yea you are correct on that, I was just assuming the ball was dead, it might have been.  Plays can die naturally.  It's too bad we don't have full video showing when all the infielders actually cross into foul territory

[Terminator]

1 minute ago, hanton said:

Yea you are correct on that, I was just assuming the ball was dead, it might have been.  Plays can die naturally.  It's too bad we don't have full video showing when all the infielders actually cross into foul territory - or show exactly when JS comes out because that's automatic dead ball

We do have the video actually!

Vlad is the last infielder and he is still on the field (barely) when the ump waives off the run.

[Masterbather]

16 minutes ago, Terminator said:

We do have the video actually!

Vlad is the last infielder and he is still on the field (barely) when the ump waives off the run.

Just by virtue of the fact that the umpire threw another ball onto the field and then made a waving motion before everybody was in foul ground suggests that he considered the play over. The fact of the matter is nobody on the field was thinking about the tag at third. Not the players, not the umpires. Nobody. So technically the Blue Jays are correct, but realistically none of our players are even looking at the umpire. Had the umpire made no motion at all it still would have resulted in the Blue Jays running off the field.

[hanton]

 

 

 

[Masterbather]

2 minutes ago, hanton said:

 

 

 

This kind of play is his wet dream.

[Terminator]

7 minutes ago, hanton said:

 

 

 

Normally can't stand this guy but I will be tuning in for this one. Been obsessed with this play since last night lol.

[Brownie19]

5 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Normally can't stand this guy but I will be tuning in for this one. Been obsessed with this play since last night lol.

You can't stand Jomboy?  Really?  He's been so good for the game of baseball IMO.

[43211234]

Jomboy sounds like he had some dental work done!

[hanton]

9 minutes ago, Terminator said:

Normally can't stand this guy but I will be tuning in for this one. Been obsessed with this play since last night lol.

yea, same here

[Masterbather]

What's so crazy about this play is that everybody screwed up. 

The scorekeeper screwed up. 

Boston's baserunners screwed up.

The Blue Jays' fielders screwed up.

The umpire screwed up.

A total f*** up all the way around.

Has that ever happened on one play?