2025 Trade Deadline

[jmomcc]

9 minutes ago, Vancouverite said:

that's debatable 

Bednar is also not proven in the AL and he'll be going up against some good slugging teams in the AL East in hitter friendly ballparks.

Let's see how Bednar and Doval do the rest of the way vs Varland and Dominguez who are at least proven this year in the AL and have put up strong numbers so far this year.

Isn't the NL considered better than the AL this year?

it is debateable but we PAID a lot more

[saskjayfan]

1 hour ago, mphenhef said:

Here are the number of blown saves this year by some of the guys dealt today

 

Finnegan 6 (20 saves)

Shelby Miller 5 (10)

Jake Bird 6 (0)

Iglesias 5 (12)

Helsley 5 (21)

Jax 5 (0)

Mason miller 3 (20)

Bednar 0 (17) this one surprised me

doval 4 (15)

Duran 2 (16)

 

 

 

Hoffman 4 (25)

Hoffman’s 4 isn’t as bad as people think it is.

Hoffman's numbers are identical to last year except the long ball.  He's had some bad luck with the long ball including a couple wall scrapers.  We've won in games where he's given up runs.  He's still put up lots of zeros.

[Rimar]

18 minutes ago, Terminator said:

You sound like Jays24 lol

We added the best starter available (seriously, that is not a misprint) and two late inning relievers that throw 98 mph and you are whining that we didn't add enough to the pitching staff?

Who else did you want us to get?

I guess fans was hopping we get Ryan, Helsley, Bednar, Suarez, without giving too much in return 😅 I won't be surprised if Atkins #1 plan was to get Helsley and Ryan but asking price was too high, and he refused, so he moved on Bieber, then Varland. The same about Bednar, so get Dominguez instead. About France, it's better have him than Jimenez in the lineup. 

[BTS]

6 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

You see that doval has 4 years of track record and still strikes out more guys than varland who has zero years of track record even in his down year? 

Give me the first guy. 

Haven't you been the guy arguing all afternoon that the years of control don't matter because relievers are fungible? But now Doval, who was terrible last year and has been just OK this year, is better than Varland because he was elite in 2023? Doval's stuff isn't what it was. It's been on the decline since 2022. 

Varland has one year of track record. The most important year: this year. His first year as a full-time reliever. In which his velo is up two ticks with shorter outings and he's been able to scrap his bad third pitch. 

[jmomcc]

6 minutes ago, Laika said:

The thing I like about Ross is that he always tries to turn over every stone and get creative. I appreciate it.

It is a bit of a PR problem because milquetoast fans and boring media guys want teams to just do the obvious predictable things.

Trade for David Bednar! Go get Sandy! Who the hell is Luke Varland? F u Shartkins! --> this describes a lot of the reactions 

What have they done pitching wise where i'd assume he knows more than cashman or the rays when it comes to acquiring pitching at the deadline? 

They are considered two of the best pitching orgs in baseball. Atkins has done nothing to deserve some kind of genius status and kudos for doing the 'unpredictable' thing. 

He's a thoroughly middle of the road gm who has ONE homegrown starter in ten years. He's not a bad gm but he's not some genius where only the 'smart' people out there can really digest how clever it is to sign varland for his 5 years of control. What a mystifying concept us plebs could never understand. 

[jaysblue]

Ty France available in the LOD. Send in the offers! 

[saskjayfan]

I think Little is criminally under rated by people on this board.  He's Brett Cecil reborn.  That spike curve is identical to prime Cecil.  13.4 K/9 2.57 FIP.   I have faith in Hoff.  Williams is having the same season as Hoff. Varland and Dominguez were solid leverage reliever adds.  We have Rodriguez.  Hopefully Garcia and Sandlin make it back.  Assuming those 2 get back, I don't look at the Jays bullpen and think it's a bullpen that can't compete in the playoffs. 

[jaysblue]

Would have also been icing on the cake if the Jays could have added another power bat, but overall this team did add a front of the rotation starter and two very good high leverage/high K arms for the pen, which was needed. 
 

Lets hope the Jays get Santander back and he can get hot over the final weeks and that both Vladdy/Bo can do some of the heavy lifting offensively. 
 

should be a fun final two months! 

[jmomcc]

1 minute ago, BTS said:

Haven't you been the guy arguing all afternoon that the years of control don't matter because relievers are fungible? But now Doval, who was terrible last year and has been just OK this year, is better than Varland because he was elite in 2023? Doval's stuff isn't what it was. It's been on the decline since 2022. 

Years of control don't matter. But track record for the next few months matter to me. You don't have to pay for the track record. You have to pay for the control. 
 

Doval struck out 12 per 9 last year with a 3.44 xERA. That's good. . 

[Ball4Life]

Just now, saskjayfan said:

I think Little is criminally under rated by people on this board.  He's Brett Cecil reborn.  That spike curve is identical to prime Cecil.  13.4 K/9 2.57 FIP.   I have faith in Hoff.  Williams is having the same season as Hoff. Varlandland and Dominguez were solid leverage reliever adds.  We have Rodriguez.  Hopefully Garcia and Sandlin make it back.  Assuming those 2 get back, I don't look at the Jays bullpen and think it's a bullpen that can't compete in the playoffs. 

Little-Dominguez-Varland-Hoffman (the healthy ones) is a nice looking 6-9th inning pen. Rodriguez has mostly been good. And maybe Toronto gets lucky and gets Garcia back. I like it.

[Rimar]

1 minute ago, BTS said:

Haven't you been the guy arguing all afternoon that the years of control don't matter because relievers are fungible? But now Doval, who was terrible last year and has been just OK this year, is better than Varland because he was elite in 2023? Doval's stuff isn't what it was. It's been on the decline since 2022. 

Seriously, this really  matter, if we start inning with Dominguez, Doval, Helsley, Bednar or Varland, when it's no a save situation? All of them will do the job right. The only concern is Hoffman, but Atkins and Schneider seem to think we shouldn't worry. 

[BTS]

2 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

Years of control don't matter. But track record for the next few months matter to me. You don't have to pay for the track record. You have to pay for the control. 
 

Doval struck out 12 per 9 last year with a 3.44 xERA. That's good. . 

Doval was optioned to AAA last year because his mechanics fell apart and he couldn't throw the ball over the plate. He finished the season replacement level with an ERA close to 5. 

[jmomcc]

4 minutes ago, BTS said:

Doval was optioned to AAA last year because his mechanics fell apart and he couldn't throw the ball over the plate. He finished the season replacement level with an ERA close to 5. 

Varland had his very first ever productive season in baseball this year. He is the guy who just made changes and got better. 

You are just illustrating why you don't pay for control of god damn relievers. 

[Rimar]

7 minutes ago, saskjayfan said:

I think Little is criminally under rated by people on this board.  He's Brett Cecil reborn.  That spike curve is identical to prime Cecil.  13.4 K/9 2.57 FIP.   I have faith in Hoff.  Williams is having the same season as Hoff. Varland and Dominguez were solid leverage reliever adds.  We have Rodriguez.  Hopefully Garcia and Sandlin make it back.  Assuming those 2 get back, I don't look at the Jays bullpen and think it's a bullpen that can't compete in the playoffs. 

Also,  Bieber can be used in the bullpen or one of our other SP will be. He return from Tommy Jones surgery, so they will be careful with him. 

[Rimar]

Just now, jmomcc said:

Varland had his very first ever productive season in baseball this year. He is the guy who just made changes and got better. 

You are just illustrating why you don't pay for control of god damn relievers. 

I doubt years of control was the mean reason they trade for him.  Atkins probably make offers to few teams for good avaliable relievers and it's the Twins who agreed at last minute, when the Pirates and Cards refused. 

[jaysblue]

I dropped Doval last season in fantasy baseball. 

[jmomcc]

2 minutes ago, Rimar said:

I doubt years of control was the mean reason they trade for him.  Atkins probably make offers to few teams for good avaliable relievers and it's the Twins who agreed at last minute, when the Pirates and Cards refused. 

I could see it as a desperation move maybe

[BTS]

14 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

Varland had his very first ever productive season in baseball this year. He is the guy who just made changes and got better. 

You are just illustrating why you don't pay for control of god damn relievers. 

You're acting like like Atkins paid for Zack Pop or Tommy Nance or something because he was giddy over 5 years of control. Varland's value comes in a few ways:

1) He's really good. This was definitely consideration #1. He's been excellent this year, and the FO definitely likes his pitch shapes and whatever else they're looking at enough to think he's going to continue being good. 

2) He'll make the minimum next year. This is less of a consideration than #1. Much less of a consideration. But it's still important. Getting Varland locked in as the 8th inning guy means 10-15M can be spent on something else this offseason. That's enough to sign a Ryan Helsley. 

3) He has 4 arb years after 2026. This is worth something to the team. There's value in having that control. But it's not driving the decision. They acquired Varland because they think he's a high end reliever. 

[Rimar]

5 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

I could see it as a desperation move maybe

I don't think so. See it like if you go on dating site, and write to few pretty girls. The one who will answer and seem interested in you, will be the one you get😉

[Eat My Shatkins]

Man the Jays BP is going to be super cheap next year and probably pretty damn good and deep.

Hoffman ($11.0)

Garcia ($7.5)

Rodriguez ($6.4)

Varland (Pre-arb)

Little (Pre-arb)

Fisher (Pre-arb)

Sandlin (Arb 1)

Fluharty (Pre-arb)

Burr (Pre-arb)

Nance (Pre-arb)

[jmomcc]

8 minutes ago, BTS said:

You're acting like like Atkins paid for Zack Pop or Tommy Nance or something because was giddy over 5 years of control. Varland's value comes in a few ways:

1) He's really good. This was definitely consideration #1. He's been excellent this year, and the FO definitely likes his pitch shapes and whatever else they're looking at enough to think he's going to continue being good. 

2) He'll make the minimum next year. This is less of a consideration than #1. Much less of a consideration. But it's still important. Getting Varland locked in as the 8th inning guy means 10-15M can be spent on something else this offseason. That's enough to sign a Ryan Helsley. 

3) He has 4 arb years after 2026. This is worth something to the team. There's value in having that control. But it's not driving the decision. They acquired Varland because they think he's a high end reliever. 

He's under 9ks per 9 with a really low HR rate. Is that sustainable? 

My bar for so good that i want to pay for control begins with a much higher strikeout rate. 

They also produced Fisher and Little this year which was extremely valuable. Why not back yourself to do that next year? 

If he can start... that's different. If his velo has ticked up independently of him switching to relief.. and he can maintain 85% of his stuff starting, then i love it. 

Otherwise, we just paid a high price for a reliever who doesn't strike people out, when that is like the main thing everyone wants in a leverage reliever. 

[saskjayfan]

23 minutes ago, jmomcc said:

Varland had his very first ever productive season in baseball this year. He is the guy who just made changes and got better. 

You are just illustrating why you don't pay for control of god damn relievers. 

He was a starter when he struggled...there's a difference.

[jaysblue]

On 7/27/2025 at 8:21 PM, jaysblue said:

Could the Guardians shop Shane Bieber? He's in the middle of his rehab and could be a nice arm for the top of the rotation if he returns to his previous elite form. 

 

Bump! 
 

Atkins read my mind! 

[Terminator]

What I’m realizing is that this is all coming down to the names as much as the talent. 
 

“Never mind that Doval and Bednar have recently been demoted to the minors, they have been All-Star closers before! So they must be a lot better than SirAnthony and Varland…”

When in reality they are so close in talent that you could probably just draw their names out of a hat ROS

[sliderguy35]

having extended control of relievers is overrated, but it's not like they paid a crazy premium to get it & you'd MUCH rather have it than not. they dealt from positions of strength for the org that were blocked by other guys (loperfido's already up & i'd be willing to bet that pinango runs a higher wRC+ than both when he comes up next year + TINSTAAPP).

not to mention the years of control suddenly look amazing if he ends up being an SP conversion candidate in the offseason. he's always had great command & remember, this is a guy who's velo floor has skyrocketed over the last few years. if he's now sitting 95 as a starter instead of 93, with a platoon-neutral breaking ball (the curveball he added), look out. & if starting doesn't work out, upper echelon velo with good command will always play, there's a lot less risk of him completely flaming out like some relievers do IMO.

bieber got driveline'd before 2024 to get his velo back up & he looked like the best pitcher in baseball in the starts that he did pitch that year. he's essentially always been elite as long as his fastball velo's been above 92 mph (which it has been in his rehab starts) & was gotten for about as cheap as a guy who could realistically start game 1 of a playoff series would have gone. 

really liked this deadline, a lot of upside without giving up a ton of close to ML talent. every deadline as a buyer comes with some risk, but the upside for the risk that we took today could really be WS-defining.

 

[saskjayfan]

1 minute ago, jmomcc said:

He's under 9ks per 9 with a really low HR rate. Is that sustainable? 

My bar for so good that i want to pay for control begins with a much higher strikeout rate. 

They also produced Fisher and Little this year which was extremely valuable. Why not back yourself to do that next year? 

If he can start... that's different. If his velo has ticked up independently of him switching to relief.. and he can maintain 85% of his stuff starting, then i love it. 

Otherwise, we just paid a high price for a reliever who doesn't strike people out, when that is like the main thing everyone wants in a leverage reliever. 

He's 8.6.  It's not like he's 6.5 K per 9 and the walk rate is 2.4.

[saskjayfan]

1 minute ago, sliderguy35 said:

having extended control of relievers is overrated, but it's not like they paid a crazy premium to get it & you'd MUCH rather have it than not. they dealt from positions of strength for the org that were blocked by other guys (loperfido's already up & i'd be willing to bet that pinango runs a higher wRC+ than both when he comes up next year + TINSTAAPP).

not to mention the years of control suddenly look amazing if he ends up being an SP conversion candidate in the offseason. he's always had great command & remember, this is a guy who's velo floor has skyrocketed over the last few years. if he's now sitting 95 as a starter instead of 93, with a platoon-neutral breaking ball (the curveball he added), look out. & if starting doesn't work out, upper echelon velo with good command will always play, there's a lot less risk of him completely flaming out like some relievers do IMO.

bieber got driveline'd before 2024 to get his velo back up & he looked like the best pitcher in baseball in the starts that he did pitch that year. he's essentially always been elite as long as his fastball velo's been above 92 mph (which it has been in his rehab starts) & was gotten for about as cheap as a guy who could realistically start game 1 of a playoff series would have gone. 

really liked this deadline, a lot of upside without giving up a ton of close to ML talent. every deadline as a buyer comes with some risk, but the upside for the risk that we took today could really be WS-defining.

 

Bieber's curveball is the best righty curveball in baseball.  It's that good.  

[jmomcc]

1 minute ago, Terminator said:

What I’m realizing is that this is all coming down to the names as much as the talent. 
 

“Never mind that Doval and Bednar have recently been demoted to the minors, they have been All-Star closers before! So they must be a lot better than SirAnthony and Varland…”

When in reality they are so close in talent that you could probably just draw their names out of a hat ROS

Doval is debateable. There is no one in the entire world who thinks varland is better than bednar. 

Also, the fact they both got sent down is the exact reason why paying for 5 years of control is dumb. They both peaked way way higher than varland. They both flamed out at times. Maybe that should be a lesson. 

[Eat My Shatkins]

Nice to still have a series left to play against the Twins

Holy s*** did they gut their roster. Like 9 guys off the 26 man, including 4 high end, high leverage relievers?

[jmomcc]

4 minutes ago, saskjayfan said:

He's 8.6.  It's not like he's 6.5 K per 9 and the walk rate is 2.4.

That's not great for a leverage guy. That's below Sandlin for reference.