GDT - Game #4 - March 31 1:40 ET - Jays @ Rays

[Spanky99]

Yeah, everyone and their sister knew we needed thump, they tried.

 

They did? How so?

 

Internet is hard, still having troubles with quotes you stupid neanderthal? lol

 

Ohtani, and every other son of a bitch they were in on, are you dense?

 

f*** off, you moron POS.

[Spanky99]

They tried?? Soler was right there. Bellinger. Chapman. JDM. All these guys were cheap cheap.

 

They were in on everyone of those guys, the price was too high? They didn't wait, but again, no-one knew the FA class would crater. What's not to understand? Jays offered more to Chappy in a late stab, he wanted nothing to do with us.

Not to mention it takes 2 to Tango. You and I will ever know the truth of it. Oh, and Belly was NOT cheap, 80 guaranteed for 1 year is huge risk.

[Terminator]

They tried?? Soler was right there. Bellinger. Chapman. JDM. All these guys were cheap cheap.

 

Turner is outproducing all of them so far so maybe they tried and succeeded?

 

Time will tell but the early returns on the offseason are very promising.

 

The only valid black mark to this point is that Ernie Clement is so damn good that he makes IKF's paltry 7.5M a year look like a waste.

[BTS]

They were in on everyone of those guys, the price was too high? They didn't wait, but again, no-one knew the FA class would crater. What's not to understand? Jays offered more to Chappy in a late stab, he wanted nothing to do with us.

Not to mention it takes 2 to Tango. You and I will ever know the truth of it.

 

Are we even sure that Soler and JDM were better signings than Turner?

[Spanky99]

Are we even sure that Soler and JDM were better signings than Turner?

 

No, not at all. Turners versatility was obviously considered.

[John_Havok]

No, not at all. Turners versatility was obviously considered.

 

I dont want to see Turner at 3b ever again.

[Stangstag]

Turner is outproducing all of them so far so maybe they tried and succeeded?

 

Time will tell but the early returns on the offseason are very promising.

 

The only valid black mark to this point is that Ernie Clement is so damn good that he makes IKF's paltry 7.5M a year look like a waste.

 

LF was open. Shouldn’t have brought KK back IMO.

[Masterbather]

I dont want to see Turner at 3b ever again.

Yeah it's not really versatility if you don't play the positions well.

[Stangstag]

They were in on everyone of those guys, the price was too high? They didn't wait, but again, no-one knew the FA class would crater. What's not to understand? Jays offered more to Chappy in a late stab, he wanted nothing to do with us.

Not to mention it takes 2 to Tango. You and I will ever know the truth of it. Oh, and Belly was NOT cheap, 80 guaranteed for 1 year is huge risk.

 

That’s all fair, I just feel they were way too hasty in signing KK and IKF. It was unnecessary. Guys like that can be had for peanuts every offseason.

[BatFlip]

They were in on everyone of those guys, the price was too high? They didn't wait, but again, no-one knew the FA class would crater. What's not to understand? Jays offered more to Chappy in a late stab, he wanted nothing to do with us.

Not to mention it takes 2 to Tango. You and I will ever know the truth of it. Oh, and Belly was NOT cheap, 80 guaranteed for 1 year is huge risk.

 

Yeah, I don't think Chapman wanted to be here. My preference would have been to make a run for Teo and put Varsho in CF where he belongs. But there were a lot of moving pieces and we always have the benefit of hindsight at the end of free agency.

[Terminator]

LF was open. Shouldn’t have brought KK back IMO.

 

Yeah that's fair.

 

The nice thing about KK though is that he also serves as the backup CFer which allows us to carry all these infielders on the roster (including Schneider who hit a homer while manning LF today).

 

If we signed someone like Teo or Pham, then we'd also need a backup CFer unless we planned on using Springer there.

 

Having all this versatility is going to pay off over the course of the season, including today.

 

It also allows the team to cast a wider net. If Clement balls out, IKF can be a UT bench player. If Schneider turns into a legit LF power threat, KK can be a traditional 4th OF. Then there is all the shuffling that will happen when injuries occur.

[Terminator]

I dont want to see Turner at 3b ever again.

 

At this point it should be a last resort or mid game if it calls for it. If we get some injuries then perhaps it would make more sense.

[Spanky99]

Yeah, I don't think Chapman wanted to be here. My preference would have been to make a run for Teo and put Varsho in CF where he belongs. But there were a lot of moving pieces and we always have the benefit of hindsight at the end of free agency.

 

I wanted Teo, JD and Ryu. Ah well...

[Laika]

great game

 

nice to see the Jays unload on a s***** LHP

 

Clement and Schneider are a f***ing shot in the arm, they need to play a lot - it is inexcusable for them to not be in the lineup at a minimum of 2/3 of the time, I don't care if they are weak side platoon figure it the f*** out even if you cut into the playing time of guys like KK or IKF or Biggio

 

also nice to see Justin Turner figure it out so quickly, I have never said a bad thing about him ever so it feels good to be rewarded for being a good fan

[Laika]

Ernie Clement can also apparently play a good SS

 

He's actually a stud and I bet every smart GM in the sport has been calling about him

[deanmike]

great game

 

nice to see the Jays unload on a s***** LHP

 

Clement and Schneider are a f***ing shot in the arm, they need to play a lot - it is inexcusable for them to not be in the lineup at a minimum of 2/3 of the time, I don't care if they are weak side platoon figure it the f*** out even if you cut into the playing time of guys like KK or IKF or Biggio

 

also nice to see Justin Turner figure it out so quickly, I have never said a bad thing about him ever so it feels good to be rewarded for being a good fan

 

Agreed. If Schneider's bat is for real, a Schneider+Varsho starting LF/CF combo will put up more fWAR than Varsho+KK.

 

Clement should be the starting 3B over IKF.

 

Biggio's bat stays in the lineup against RHP starters until he cools down again.

 

RF Springer

1B Vlad

SS Bichette

DH Turner

C Kirk

CF Varsho

3B Clement

LF Schneider

2B Biggio

[Laika]

Just trade Bo and plug Clement in there all year.

[G-Snarls]

LF was open. Shouldn’t have brought KK back IMO.

 

For sure.

 

In retrospect you wish they had:

 

- Used the KK and IKF money to sign or trade for a power hitting COF

- Re-signed Chapman for the cheap ass deal he got from SF or planned to play some combination of Clement, Schneider and Biggio full time

- Still traded Espinal (all the easier if you have Chapman or are ready to go out on limb with Clement and Schneider)

- Still signed Turner (or one of the others mentioned above but I'm totally good with Turner)

[G-Snarls]

And I'm down with playing KK less often

[G-Snarls]

Just trade Bo and plug Clement in there all year.

 

Bo would bring a NICE haul but..... no

[Stangstag]

And I'm down with playing KK less often

 

Even someone like Oneill or Taylor would have made more sense over KK. Platoon partner with Varsho.

 

KK just doesn’t make any sense on this roster

[burlingtonbandit]

Even someone like Oneill or Taylor would have made more sense over KK. Platoon partner with Varsho.

 

KK just doesn’t make any sense on this roster

 

Yup 100%. And Lukes as a 4th OF makes equally no sense given he’s also a LHH. A guy like Tommy Pham would be much better.

[hanton]

Just saw the Jeter like play by Clement - wow - and the great stretch by the defensively challenged first basemen

[Terminator]

Yup 100%. And Lukes as a 4th OF makes equally no sense given he’s also a LHH. A guy like Tommy Pham would be much better.

 

Who is the backup CFer in that scenario?

[G-Snarls]

Who is the backup CFer in that scenario?

 

Springer

[Laika]

rough numbers

WAR/600

KK:

2020: 5.5

2021: 3.75

2022: 3.0

2023: 3.0

Projected: 2.0 to 3.0

 

Pham:

2020: 0.0

2021: 1.2

2022: 0.7

2023: 2.3

Projected: 0.7

 

Michael Taylor:

2020: -0.5

2021: 2.4

2022: 2.0

2023: 2.5

Projected: 1.2 to 1.8

 

O'Neill

2020: 1.6

2021: 5.8

2022: 1.8

2023: 1.7

Projected: 1.8 to 3.0

 

 

Interesting thing about most of the "they should have done this instead of signed KK" posts is that they ignore the fact that Kevin Kiermaier is just... plain better than all the commonly mentioned alternatives? Like, a lot better and consistently better.

 

Do you want to buy wins or not?

 

And KK's injury risk, his downside, is mitigated on Toronto because Varsho is such a perfect backup every day CF and there are LF thumper options to plug into LF.

[G-Snarls]

In a vacuum I like KK a lot

 

I just don't like our overall lineup as much as I want to I guess.

 

If KK hits 9th in a lineup with better bats 6-8 in front if him I like it a lot better

Edited April 1, 2024 by G-Snarls

[hanton]

A player like KK will make 1 play in the post season that can make a difference between losing and winning a series (not just a game) - elite dee in CF is a must

[burlingtonbandit]

Who is the backup CFer in that scenario?

 

Well Varsho is… I’m saying in the current roster setup Lukes is a waste of a roster spot given he, Varsho and KK all hit LH. I feel like in a pinch Springer would be fine to play CF for a few games as well.

[burlingtonbandit]

In a vacuum I like KK a lot

 

I just don't like our overall lineup as much as I want to I guess.

 

If KK hits 9th in a lineup with better bats 6-8 in front if him I like it a lot better

 

Yeah if you didn’t have Varsho, KK is a great CF to have. It’s just with Varsho being a great defensive CF, his value isn’t as good by being put in LF.

 

Having 4 below average hitters 5-9 is the problem with the current offence. KK 10M salary would have been better spent in getting a hit first Corner OF or 3B for this particular jays team.