General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Brownie19]

I dont think its necessarily about handing them jobs, its just that neither of them have options next season. It sure seems like a waste of value to place either of them in the pen just for depth purposes when they're both clearly good enough for the rotation. If they find a pitcher to add above them, sure, I guess you could make that argument, but both would be on track for around 130 IP next season.

 

I guess as it stands now, Yariel would be the guy theyd move to the pen if they had to.

 

I agree with this 100%. In a perfect world, they would have SP depth in the minors in the form of real prospects they could draw upon to fill in the rotation if Francis/Yariel fail (or there are injuries) - and that would be a reasonable approach to take (albeit there is concern that Gausman/Berrios don't offer the talent you want at #1/#2 anymore, which complicates things). Having young, cheap SPing is a massive benefit to teams and it would be ideal to find that with both Francis and Yariel. The challenge is you're going to need a reasonable backup plan. Ricky T is f***ing us over in this regard as we "should" have Ricky T and Bloss as the main depth pieces in AAA that we could call upon when needed. The lack of depth in the upper minors makes this approach more risky. Perhaps there's a trade to be had this offseason that helps fill that void?

[max silver]

I agree with this 100%. In a perfect world, they would have SP depth in the minors in the form of real prospects they could draw upon to fill in the rotation if Francis/Yariel fail (or there are injuries) - and that would be a reasonable approach to take (albeit there is concern that Gausman/Berrios don't offer the talent you want at #1/#2 anymore, which complicates things). Having young, cheap SPing is a massive benefit to teams and it would be ideal to find that with both Francis and Yariel. The challenge is you're going to need a reasonable backup plan. Ricky T is f***ing us over in this regard as we "should" have Ricky T and Bloss as the main depth pieces in AAA that we could call upon when needed. The lack of depth in the upper minors makes this approach more risky. Perhaps there's a trade to be had this offseason that helps fill that void?

 

Adam Macko is another guy who has a shot to be a depth option next season. He was in the midst of a breakout season in AA when the elbow issue popped up, and he's made his way back as he's been starting (albeit in shortened starts) for Dunedin. There's a good shot that Manoah will be back for the second half if he follows a similar timeline to Ryu.

[John_Havok]

Adam Macko is another guy who has a shot to be a depth option next season. He was in the midst of a breakout season in AA when the elbow issue popped up, and he's made his way back as he's been starting (albeit in shortened starts) for Dunedin. There's a good shot that Manoah will be back for the second half if he follows a similar timeline to Ryu.

 

Yeah, at this moment the depth is thin. It's basically Bloss and Macko as the default 6 and 7 until Manoah and Ricky T are back and healthy

[glory]

I dont think its necessarily about handing them jobs, its just that neither of them have options next season. It sure seems like a waste of value to place either of them in the pen just for depth purposes when they're both clearly good enough for the rotation. If they find a pitcher to add above them, sure, I guess you could make that argument, but both would be on track for around 130 IP next season.

 

I guess as it stands now, Yariel would be the guy theyd move to the pen if they had to.

 

Francis has only had a handful of starts where he's looked great, and Yariel has been up and down (expected given his lack of pitching over the years). Not sure I'd say both are clearly good enough for the rotation, at least good enough to where they feel comfortable not signing anyone else. It's a much safer (and likely better) approach to have 1 in the rotation and 1 in the pen as long as the SP they sign is better than at least one of the top 3 (Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt), preferably better than 2.

 

Also, looking at the org, it's increasingly likely that they need a SP more than offense for beyond 2025 as well. Aside from Francis/Yariel being long term question marks, Bassitt is a FA after 2025, and Gausman after 2026. Their best pitching prospect is probably Bloss at this point and he likely profiles as a bottom of the rotation SP. Tiedemann is likely a RP. Manoah is a non factor until 2026 (and his last full season before injury was a disaster). A long term deal for a SP who you can reasonably hope to be a 2-3 starter over the next few years is probably necessary.

[John_Havok]

Francis has only had a handful of starts where he's looked great, and Yariel has been up and down (expected given his lack of pitching over the years). Not sure I'd say both are clearly good enough for the rotation, at least good enough to where they feel comfortable not signing anyone else. It's a much safer (and likely better) approach to have 1 in the rotation and 1 in the pen as long as the SP they sign is better than at least one of the top 3 (Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt), preferably better than 2.

 

Also, looking at the org, it's increasingly likely that they need a SP more than offense for beyond 2025 as well. Aside from Francis/Yariel being long term question marks, Bassitt is a FA after 2025, and Gausman after 2026. Their best pitching prospect is probably Bloss at this point and he likely profiles as a bottom of the rotation SP. Tiedemann is likely a RP. Manoah is a non factor until 2026 (and his last full season before injury was a disaster). A long term deal for a SP who you can reasonably hope to be a 2-3 starter over the next few years is probably necessary.

 

I've already advocated to sign a top tier SP as the way to improve the rotation. It's also still far to early to write off Yariel as a starter, it's clear he has good enough stuff to do it.

 

I'm more worried about Bassit imploding than I am about Yariel not taking a step forward

[wilko]

I've already advocated to sign a top tier SP as the way to improve the rotation. It's also still far to early to write off Yariel as a starter, it's clear he has good enough stuff to do it.

 

I'm more worried about Bassit imploding than I am about Yariel not taking a step forward

 

If Bassit loses some MPH on that fastball he's cooked. I guess you could make him a junkball RP if he sucks.

[Barrelsandbombs]

From Arden Zwelling, Romano is confirmed out for the season, and Orelvis won't be called up for the final week of the season once his suspension ends.

 

[hanton]

You do not run on Doyle

 

bottom of the 9th an absolute gun to nail the runner at 3rd - dp to end the game

[Masterbather]

 

f***ing idiot. I'd rather not have to have heard his name again this season.

[Barrelsandbombs]

From Shi Davidi, says Romano not being able to return this season could mark the end of his Blue Jays tenure. Also provides some good info on some of the recent RP pickups:

 

Just as Bo Bichette’s late-season push to rejoin the Toronto Blue Jays is picking up, with a rehab assignment slated for next week, Jordan Romano’s is shutting down, a slower-than-expected recovery leaving him without enough runway to build up in time.

 

“The hope was to get him back, obviously, kind of like what we're doing with Bo,” manager John Schneider said Friday afternoon, before a 3-1 loss to Atlanta in the opener of a three-game series. “And he wanted to get back. It just didn't work out with the number of games we have left and what he is going to have to check off the list in order to get back. It'll be nice for him to have a regular off-season. I think that'll be a little bit comforting for him and for us and get him back for next year.”

 

That may not be as cut and dried as it seems given that the two-time all-star closer, who made $7.75 million this year, is likely to command a salary in the $8 million range in 2025, his final season of arbitration eligibility before free agency.

 

Seeing him pitch even a small handful of games in the final weeks of this trying year would have offered the Blue Jays a useful data point in deciding how to approach tendering Romano this off-season.

 

If healthy, there’s no doubt he’s worth the money. But after the 31-year-old twice received cortisone shots in his elbow before undergoing surgery to repair an impingement, they need be sure his health issues are behind him, especially since they must rebuild a bullpen that was among the primary causes of their collapse this year. Toronto also only has a finite amount of money to plug those, and other, roster holes.

 

To that end Friday’s recall from triple-A Buffalo of righty Luis Frias, one of five external relievers picked up since the trade deadline, is part of the club’s attempt to find some value arms for next year’s bullpen makeover.

 

Frias was claimed off waivers from Arizona on Aug. 10, three days after righty Thomas Nance was acquired from the San Diego Padres for cash. Three more claims – lefty Easton Lucas from Detroit on Aug. 19, righty Dillon Tate from Baltimore on Sept. 1 and righty Emmanuel Ramirez on Thursday from Miami – followed and while it may seem like the club is simply throwing darts on the board in the hopes of finding a bull’s-eye, it’s more deliberate than that.

 

In each case, the Blue Jays either identified a skill-set they really like, or felt like they had a fix that could help the player.

 

With Nance, for instance, who threw a clean seventh Friday, they really liked his curveball and have urged him to up the usage on the offering, which he’s done to some success.

 

Frias, meanwhile, has a big fastball that sits 96 and gets up to 98 along with a solid cutter he throws about half the time, complemented by a curveball he mixes in sparingly. The challenge for him is in his command and the Blue Jays’ early messaging to him has been to “make sure to execute my pitches and location, keep working on that,” Frias said through interpreter Hector Lebron. “But other than that, we haven't talked about any major changes.

 

Tate, a reliable part of the Orioles’ bullpen the past few seasons, may be the most intriguing name of the bunch. After missing last year with elbow/forearm injuries, his velocity is down about two m.p.h. this year from where it was in 2022, when logged 73.2 innings over 67 games with a 3.05 ERA.

 

He threw his first inning, a three-up, three-down frame, with Buffalo on Thursday, and an ideal scenario is that he can briefly join the Blue Jays for a look before the season ends.

 

“Down the stretch here you're looking at guys (that) when you're making decisions in the next year, who can help you, either bringing guys up internally and externally, and what they bring to the table,” explained Schneider. “There will be decisions to be made at the end of the year. And, I do think the guys that we have acquired, we've done a good job of identifying one or two things that they do really well or have done really well and hopefully they can re-establish those things and you add them to hopefully what looks to be a little bit of a different bullpen. You bring Jordan back into the mix and see where you're at.”

 

All of that is needed to better support a rotation that could be a strength again next year.

 

Kevin Gausman, looking to finish an uneven year strong, allowed three runs in a gruelling 39-pitch second but held the line there to go six innings despite lacking his best command. Max Fried largely kept the Blue Jays offence in check, allowing only Vladimir Guerrero Jr.’s run-scoring groundout in the third, over seven overpowering innings.

 

“That inning just kind of got away from me," Gausman said of the fateful second, which included three hits and three walks. “There really was nothing different that I needed to do. They found some holes. Base hit up the middle by (Travis) d'Arnaud, that's a double play in a lot of (situations), so it’s tough. I didn't feel like we needed to really change much, just needed to throw more strikes, and that's what I did.”

 

Over his last six starts, Gausman has pitched to a 2.56 ERA over 38.2 innings while locking in a more consistent delivery, which has led him to better command of his fastball at the top and bottom of the strike zone, Friday aside.

 

That’s something he’ll try to carry into 2025 and several of his teammates are looking to build on different elements they can use for next year, as well.

 

Frias is among them, with pitching coach Pete Walker saying that the Blue Jays “have a little bit of a plan up here with him as far as how we're going to use his stuff. It comes down to him executing a little bit, but also just really just pounding the zone and trying to utilize that cutter.”

 

The 26-year-old said he was “very excited, very happy” when he learned that the Blue Jays had claimed him, calling this a “second chance, which I appreciate. I'm trying to take advantage of that and do the best I can to try to help the team.”

 

With so much uncertainty about Romano’s future and the bullpen as a whole, if Frias and others can seize the opportunity before them now, they’ll be helping the Blue Jays in more ways than one.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/blue-jays-decision-on-jordan-romano-not-as-cut-and-dried-as-it-seems/

[jaysblue]

If Bassit loses some MPH on that fastball he's cooked. I guess you could make him a junkball RP if he sucks.

 

Can he learn how to throw a knuckle ball?

[The_DH]

If anyone can learn how, it's him.

[jaysblue]

If anyone can learn how, it's him.

 

Yeah definitely would be interesting. Wonder if anyone suggested that to him. I could see him mastering it. Would allow him to carve out a longer career as a mid-rotation starter. Might even have a couple of RA Dickey Mets seasons in store! Haha.

[Jonn]

f***ing idiot. I'd rather not have to have heard his name again this season.

 

Bit of an extreme reaction lol. He's still one of the best prospects in the system. His PED suspension should not impact anything about his future outside of the obvious development time he missed. Still think 80 games is insane for supplements that are just so commonly used by adults nowadays.

 

Most men over 50 that can afford it are getting testosterone replacement therapy that's just restoring their quality of life. PED's aren't the boogey man they use to be. Atleast they shouldn't be. There is zero PED's on the markets that are going to help you hit a Baseball.

[Stangstag]

Bit of an extreme reaction lol. He's still one of the best prospects in the system. His PED suspension should not impact anything about his future outside of the obvious development time he missed. Still think 80 games is insane for supplements that are just so commonly used by adults nowadays.

 

Most men over 50 that can afford it are getting testosterone replacement therapy that's just restoring their quality of life. PED's aren't the boogey man they use to be. Atleast they shouldn't be. There is zero PED's on the markets that are going to help you hit a Baseball.

 

This is a laughably stupid post.

 

I don’t really give a s*** about PEDs, but if you legalize them then all players are basically forced to take them to keep up with the competition.

[Masterbather]

Bit of an extreme reaction lol. He's still one of the best prospects in the system. His PED suspension should not impact anything about his future outside of the obvious development time he missed. Still think 80 games is insane for supplements that are just so commonly used by adults nowadays.

 

Most men over 50 that can afford it are getting testosterone replacement therapy that's just restoring their quality of life. PED's aren't the boogey man they use to be. Atleast they shouldn't be. There is zero PED's on the markets that are going to help you hit a Baseball.

 

None of that changes the fact that he's a f***ing idiot for taking a banned substance. I have little hope for people that are genuinely stupid.

[Jonn]

This is a laughably stupid post.

 

I don’t really give a s*** about PEDs, but if you legalize them then all players are basically forced to take them to keep up with the competition.

 

Not once did I say they should legalize them. I said people shouldn't overact to them. You could literally go to a GNC or Popeye's Supplements and get something recommended to you that is banned by MLB. Have you ever even looked at the banned supplement list? It's absurd.

[max silver]

Not once did I say they should legalize them. I said people shouldn't overact to them. You could literally go to a GNC or Popeye's Supplements and get something recommended to you that is banned by MLB. Have you ever even looked at the banned supplement list? It's absurd.

 

That's great but Orelvis wasn't taking a banned supplement. He was taking a banned pharmaceutical that you can't exactly buy off the shelf from your local Walmart.

[Spanky99]

That's great but Orelvis wasn't taking a banned supplement. He was taking a banned pharmaceutical that you can't exactly buy off the shelf from your local Walmart.

 

Wasn't the rumour he was trying to have a child as he was shooting blanks? Prescribed by his doctor or something, I believe. He's just a kid, not a worry from me.

[max silver]

Wasn't the rumour he was trying to have a child as he was shooting blanks? Prescribed by his doctor or something, I believe. He's just a kid, not a worry from me.

 

Yeah that's the reason that Orelvis gave for using the drug. It seems as if he had a prescription for the drug in question so it's entirely possible he was using the drug for legitimate reasons. It seems as though he may have been able to receive a therapeutic use exemption to allow him to use Clomiphene if he went through the proper channels but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

[connorp]

Yeah that's the reason that Orelvis gave for using the drug. It seems as if he had a prescription for the drug in question so it's entirely possible he was using the drug for legitimate reasons. It seems as though he may have been able to receive a therapeutic use exemption to allow him to use Clomiphene if he went through the proper channels but unfortunately that wasn't the case.

 

I vote tie your opinions to how you vote. No politics here. But save the bs. MLB is basically school for these people. Wander Franco I know dropped out at 12 and I’m sure that’s no uncommon. They know all the rules coming in. Then when they get in, they get it all laid out again. You can’t even call taking something like that grey. It’s light black at best. Many island born players have been nailed for it. It’s a PCT and can be used as a masking agent as well. He got busted. Get over it

[max silver]

I vote tie your opinions to how you vote. No politics here. But save the bs. MLB is basically school for these people. Wander Franco I know dropped out at 12 and I’m sure that’s no uncommon. They know all the rules coming in. Then when they get in, they get it all laid out again. You can’t even call taking something like that grey. It’s light black at best. Many island born players have been nailed for it. It’s a PCT and can be used as a masking agent as well. He got busted. Get over it

 

I'm not entirely sure what point you are even trying to make here with your word salad post so I'll take my guess at how to respond. At best Orelvis unwittingly broke the rules for a legitimate fertility treatment, at worst he was cycling steroids and using clomiphene for a post cycle after steroids. I won't hazard a guess at how many guys are busted for this drug for cycling purposes, but a cursory glance at the internet shows it has an extremely long detection period of as many as 8-11 months and as such it would be very hard to avoid detection for this particular drug given the fact that minor league players are regularly drug tested as well. I have no way to know the truth of the situation as I'm not Orelvis or his doctor, but as far as I can tell he's accepted the punishment, has served his time and hopefully it's nothing more than a bit of a speedbump on his path towards becoming an MLB contributor. The timing sucks as this was a perfect season for him to break into the big leagues under a lower pressure environment but what is done is done.

[Ryu In My House]

Can he learn how to throw a knuckle ball?

 

It's pitch #10 on his little pitch thingee

[BatFlip]

This is a laughably stupid post.

 

I don’t really give a s*** about PEDs, but if you legalize them then all players are basically forced to take them to keep up with the competition.

 

That’s what you get from Jonn. Stupid posts. Apparently PEDs don’t work in sports.

[Jonn]

That’s what you get from Jonn. Stupid posts. Apparently PEDs don’t work in sports.

 

Do I know you lol? I have never seen you post here one time.

 

Never said PED’s aren’t effective. They certainly are for muscle growth and recovery.

 

My point was done crucify the kid for a positive test. Especially when he wasn’t linked to anything actually performance enhancing.

 

Lastly MLB needs to do a much better job outlining this and protecting its players.

[Barrelsandbombs]

From Bob Nightengale

 

The Toronto Blue Jays could possibly shift GM Ross Atkins to a different role after failing to make the playoffs, but there’s no indication he will be dismissed.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/09/08/mlb-standings-trade-deadline-michael-kopech/75128155007/

 

I don't think this had been reported by anyone until now, but iirc it was floating around as a rumour before that Atkins could be demoted.

[G-Snarls]

From Bob Nightengale

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/09/08/mlb-standings-trade-deadline-michael-kopech/75128155007/

 

I don't think this had been reported by anyone until now, but iirc it was floating around as a rumour before that Atkins could be demoted.

 

First base coach?

[G-Snarls]

Keegan Matheson:

 

The Blue Jays’ infield depth chart is its own game of musical chairs.

 

Everyone can play second base, but depth for the sake of depth won’t get you far. The Blue Jays need someone to rise above the rest, particularly offensively, if 2025 is going to look any different than what you’ve watched these past five months.

 

The closer we get to the offseason, the clearer it gets that this group is Toronto’s best asset on the trade market. The organization will also be involved in the third-base market -- as small as that market may be -- but when the music stops on Opening Day next year, there won’t be a chair for everyone.

 

So let's take a look below at how it all stands entering the home stretch.

 

Orelvis Martinez

2B/3B Orelvis Martinez

 

The club's No. 1-ranked prospect, per MLB Pipeline, is nearing the end of his 80-game suspension for violating MLB’s performance-enhancing drug policy, so he’ll begin to appear in Minor League games again soon and he should ride out the season there. Martinez is gifted -- perhaps this organization’s best hope for a true breakout in 2025 -- but he’s done himself no favors this season and he’s still a work in progress defensively.

 

For my dollar, Martinez will be one of the two or three most important stories in Dunedin, Fla., next spring. Perhaps there’s a platoon to be found early on, which would allow Martinez to light left-handed pitching on fire.

 

 Ernie Clement

2B/3B/SS Ernie Clement

 

If the Blue Jays commit to a more permanent solution at second base, Clement could be the biggest beneficiary. He’s an excellent fit as a true “utility” man on the 2025 roster, and in that role, he could still find a spot in the starting lineup most days. Clement is a contact machine, plays sharp defense and is an underrated athlete. Headed for a 2 fWAR season, Clement deserves every opportunity to stick around -- and if the Blue Jays can simplify second base, that shouldn’t be difficult.

 

Spencer Horwitz

1B/2B/DH Spencer Horwitz

 

Even though he hasn’t started at second since Aug. 18, it was still surprising to hear manager John Schneider say recently that Horwitz is likely to be a first baseman/designated hitter moving forward. Horwitz wasn’t going to win a Gold Glove Award this year, but he looked more comfortable defensively than anyone expected and his offensive profile is far more interesting if he’s able to play some second base. He’s also a great potential platoon match with Martinez. This will be an interesting one to monitor going into camp, because Horwitz’s bat can be valuable in the right situation.

 

Addison Barger

3B/RF Addison Barger

 

Finally, a player untethered from second base. The Blue Jays aren’t about to hand Barger the job at the hot corner, but he’s played some great baseball lately and he’s benefiting from a recent change in approach. It’s taken a while, but Barger suddenly profiles as a high-upside bench option next season, backing up third base while spelling George Springer in right field. Given that Barger exists outside of that tangled web at second base, he feels more in control of his future than most other names listed here.

 

Leo Jiménez

SS/2B Leo Jiménez

 

Jiménez fits in the big leagues. It’s evident not just on the field, but in how he carries himself around the clubhouse. Something about it feels natural to him. There’s a world in which Jiménez is Toronto’s starting shortstop in 2026, with Bo Bichette potentially leaving in free agency. In the meantime, Jiménez will be difficult to keep off the roster next season as a primary reserve up the middle. He has been asked about in trade talks before, and as an MLB-ready shortstop, that will happen again this offseason.

 

Will Wagner

2B/1B Will Wagner

 

Wagner has made an excellent first impression. Now, for the second, third, fourth … Wagner’s offensive profile fits what the Blue Jays want in a hitter, so he’s positioned himself very well to compete for a job next spring. His situation will depend heavily on which other moves are made, but Wagner isn’t going anywhere this offseason and he feels like a safe, steady option with everything swirling around him.

 

Davis Schneider

2B/LF Davis Schneider

 

This is a big stretch run for Schneider, who has struggled mightily since June. Having a foot in left field helps, but with Joey Loperfido in town and No. 13 prospect Alan Roden coming, Schneider won’t be handed anything in 2025. He’s beloved by coaches and teammates for a reason, but for now, it looks like a steep uphill climb. Schneider has made that climb before, though, so he still deserves a place in the conversation.

[G-Snarls]

Vladdy - highest OPS in baseball since the all star break

[hanton]

not sure if this was posted already but per USA Today

 

"The Toronto Blue Jays could possibly shift GM Ross Atkins to a different role after failing to make the playoffs, but there’s no indication he will be dismissed."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/09/08/mlb-standings-trade-deadline-michael-kopech/75128155007/