General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[max silver]

The downside to this is he comes into 2024 and looks like s*** again. The he has almost NO value.

 

Right now there are probably a few teams that think they can fix him. That number drops rapidly with bad results again

 

I would hope the team has a better read than we do on whether Manoah's 2023 issues are something that's fixable or if he's ultimately cooked. The recent interview with Gausman strongly suggests that Alek had some sort of shoulder issue in the spring that wasn't fully resolved before the regular season started, and I also recall there was some sort of issue that was behind how heavy Alek got in the offseason. Then there were the PRP injections in his throwing arm which Alek received at his own discretion. It would be nice if we heard a peep from Manoah and/or his agent to hear his side of the story at some point as all we've gotten throughout are various whispers about the messy situation.

[hanton]

Manoah is my #5 starter provided he comes into st in good shape and is ready to compete, I give him the benefit over White since he's dominated before and White hasn't done much of anything...

[Eat My Shatkins]

Tiedemann might be the #5 starter for all we know.

[hanton]

Tiedemann might be the #5 starter for all we know.

 

except this FO doesn't have a history of being aggressive with their prospects at least outside bo and vlady

[James Key]

I don’t think you sell low on him. Let him pitch out of the fifth spot with a renewed attitude and a new appreciation for fitness. Perhaps he can still show the bulldog mentality. If white, tide man and Francis look good again next year then think about a Manoah deal. Those 4 years of club control are too valuable with what Manoah could be. IMO he’s a good off-season and a couple of tweaks away from being a strong #3 maybe #2. What about Manoah+for Soto?

 

Lots of good options for arms this off-season. Yamamoto looks like he could be good value and slot our other guys one rung lower, maybe. With Nola resigned it’s still a fertile market for arms. Dylan cease has good peripherals and has some club control yet. I’d stay away from Snell. But Eduardo Rodriguez is back on the market. Brandon Woodruff is a sleeper pick for a creative deal a La Chad green.

 

I don’t think they should sign any of the top position players. Acquire a guy with one remaining year of control like Adames or Drury even to allow the inf prospects more playing time next year barring a trade. Soler maybe but he has injury troubles and is prone to whiffs. Berlinger hard hit rate is a bit concerning he didn’t look like the same hitter for better and worse last year but is gonna get a bag. Let the yanks over pay him. I have heard 12 for 250? Sheesh we need to focus on some impact OF talent via the draft soon. Jung Ho Lee is interesting. Even Yunito Gurriel would be a solid LF is the price is right.

 

I think ohtani would be our best bet. A SP in 2025 and 1.000 ops potential in left handed power to balance out this line up a bit. He comes in at 50 + with performance clauses?

[Frenchsoup]

lol they sent Bowden Francis to the minors last year and brought up Pearson. Sad sad move

[The Cats Ass]

except this FO doesn't have a history of being aggressive with their prospects at least outside bo and vlady

 

And Kirk. And Manoah. The FO is aggressive with prospects if they playing good and look ready. They sent Tiedemann to the AFL to get some more innings.Theres a good chance he starts the year with the team or gets called up early I think.

[Frenchsoup]

he needs to be in the pen at thge least hes better then Mayza

[Frenchsoup]

Mayza can be our 3rd lefty

[The Cats Ass]

I’d be fine going into 2024 with a Francis/White #5 competition. With Tiedemann/Manoah as the backup if both crash.

[Frenchsoup]

schneider was a good call up, Horowitz looked good

[hanton]

And Kirk. And Manoah. The FO is aggressive with prospects if they playing good and look ready. They sent Tiedemann to the AFL to get some more innings.Theres a good chance he starts the year with the team or gets called up early I think.

 

Manoah pitched in college so he was pretty much developed by the time he turned pro but I agree if he's ready give him a shot - service time manipulation is also a factor

[Frenchsoup]

Manoahs stuff is there and i think hes pretty durable, just has to not be so reckless and lazy like me. He was making strides from what i saw at the end and would be fine starting him in any game.

[The Cats Ass]

Manoah pitched in college so he was pretty much developed by the time he turned pro but I agree if he's ready give him a shot - service time manipulation is also a factor

 

Service time manipulation isn’t really a thing anymore with the new rules in place. Better to call them up right away if you think they’re going to be good.

 

Bibee earned a full year because he placed 2nd in ROY voting. And if Cleveland would have called him up right away they would have received a draft pick.

[Frenchsoup]

All that being sanoah has years of control and some gm probably thinks hes an ace. so........its going to be pretty tempting

[hanton]

Service time manipulation isn’t really a thing anymore with the new rules in place. Better to call them up right away if you think they’re going to be good.

 

Bibee earned a full year because he placed 2nd in ROY voting. And if Cleveland would have called him up right away they would have received a draft pick.

 

I wasn't aware of the new rules....

[Frenchsoup]

i love that bibbe f***ed cleveland a bit

[The Cats Ass]

I wasn't aware of the new rules....

 

If they finish top 2 in ROY voting they receive a full year service time, no matter when they were called up. If they start the year with the team and finish top 3 in ROY voting the team gets a bonus draft pick.

[Frenchsoup]

Yeah that'll stop the service time maninpulation a bit

[Ehjays]

[Omar]

 

Looks like they are cutting bait with pursuing Chapman. Boras likely asking ridiculous numbers and 5 year plus deals.

[Ehjays]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/blue-jays-open-to-alek-manoah-trade-offers.html

 

Blue Jays “Open To” Alek Manoah Trade Offers

By Mark Polishuk | November 19, 2023 at 10:49pm CDT

 

After finishing third in AL Cy Young voting in 2022, Alek Manoah had a disastrous 2023 season, posting a 5.87 ERA over 87 1/3 innings while suffering a significant loss of control. Manoah’s hellish year included a month-long stint in the Florida Complex League to try and solve his sudden mechanical issues, as well as a later option to Triple-A Buffalo in August that didn’t result in any actual pitching appearances with the Bisons.

 

With all this in mind, it perhaps isn’t surprising that rival executives have told The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal that “the Blue Jays are open to moving” Manoah in a trade, and teams have made calls in general asking about Toronto’s rotation depth. Of course, teams are often willing to listen on virtually any player, so it isn’t clear if Toronto is merely doing its due diligence in not dismissing offers for Manoah, or if the Jays are actively shopping Manoah in some regard.

 

It’s difficult to call Manoah a true trade candidate given the still somewhat mysterious nature of his down year. Some type of injury seemed to be a factor, as Jays GM Ross Atkins said in October that Manoah received a PRP injection to treat some shoulder discomfort. Manoah also went through some medical testing during his stint in Buffalo, but there were also reports of some hard feelings between Manoah and the team, perhaps regarding how the minor league option might’ve cost Manoah enough service time to claim Super Two status.

 

Only the Jays and Manoah himself have an idea of his status heading into 2024, or if even that might still be unclear until Manoah gets some offseason or Spring Training work under his belt. Obviously no team is going to pay a big price for Manoah without having more understanding of what exactly is plaguing the 25-year-old right-hander, so that alone limits Toronto’s leverage in any trade discussions.

 

By that same token, if Manoah just needs to get healthy, it is possible he could enjoy a swift return to form. Should such a bounce-back happen, the Blue Jays obviously want to benefit, rather than selling low on Manoah and then watching him rebound on another club. That said, “selling low” is still better than selling for nothing, and another mediocre season might ruin Manoah’s trade value entirely. Manoah’s rough season is just one season, and rival teams might feel they have an answer to Manoah’s mechanical problems, or that a trade itself might get Manoah on track if there is indeed bad blood between the righty and Jays management.

 

MLBTR’s Darragh McDonald recently speculated that the Blue Jays and Cardinals might line up on a Manoah trade, perhaps involving such past Jays trade targets as Dylan Carlson, Lars Nootbaar, or Brendan Donovan. With Carlson and Tyler O’Neill both struggling for the last two seasons after some early success in their MLB careers, the Cards and Jays could theoretically explore moving two “sell low” candidates for each other, hoping that mutual change of scenery would benefit all parties. St. Louis is one of many teams looking for pitching this winter, and with the Jays having a wide array of holes to fill in the lineup, several clubs could be fits if Manoah was indeed available.

 

The other question about a Manoah trade is how it would impact Toronto’s rotation. Kevin Gausman, Chris Bassitt, Jose Berrios, and Yusei Kikuchi are set as the top four, with Manoah being the favorite for the fifth spot though Atkins made no guarantees. If teams are asking about the Blue Jays’ pitchers in general, any of Bowden Francis, Mitch White, Wes Parsons, or even Kikuchi could be available at the right price. Such a deal involving another pitcher would imply that Toronto is confident Manoah can bounce back, or that the Jays are perhaps exploring acquiring another pitcher for more stability at the back end of the pitching staff.

[Stangstag]

 

f***ing Angels lol

[max silver]

Looks like they are cutting bait with pursuing Chapman. Boras likely asking ridiculous numbers and 5 year plus deals.

 

They can always circle back to Chapman later on if/when his demands come down to earth.

[L54]

Candelario would be super underwhelming and probably gets three years. Please no

[mphenhef]

If they finish top 2 in ROY voting they receive a full year service time, no matter when they were called up. If they start the year with the team and finish top 3 in ROY voting the team gets a bonus draft pick.

 

I really wish they would have figured out a way to accomplish this without tying it to the results of a writer's vote.

[connorp]

I really wish they would have figured out a way to accomplish this without tying it to the results of a writer's vote.

 

As an example, Defensive WAR would make a 1 year sample size less accurate than writers voting.

[wilko]

Looks like they are cutting bait with pursuing Chapman. Boras likely asking ridiculous numbers and 5 year plus deals.

 

Probably wants 5 years $150 knowing Boras.

[Laika]

Looks like they are cutting bait with pursuing Chapman. Boras likely asking ridiculous numbers and 5 year plus deals.

 

Bro it's JP Morosi. His tweets mean nothing.

 

Atkins kicks the tired on literal every free agent and trade possibility.

[Omar]

Bro it's JP Morosi. His tweets mean nothing.

 

Atkins kicks the tired on literal every free agent and trade possibility.

 

True that. Chapman can stay gone though.