General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[MikeM3]

Could you get Matthew Liberatore + Carlson? That would really help with our SP'ing depth. Still so hard to wrap your head around the reality that this is what Manoah is now worth...

 

I think the Cards would overvalue him and he also is probably not good. I'd rather sign one of the many FA SPs. I'd target all their LHB position players because those aren't available in FA as I see it

[Krylian]

Carlson is not the answer...but he's exactly what the Jays like to do. Find someone who has kinda sucked but under the right circumstances could turn into something....then they hope they can create those right circumstances.

[wilko]

MLBTR says Blue Jays have shown interest in Dylan Carlson

Mentions Manoah as a possible trade fit

 

Manoah has an extra year of control and more "demonstrated upside" but he is coming off the more disastrous 2023.

 

I think STL would need to add something...

 

Throw in Tyler O'Neill and it would be better.

[Brownie19]

I think the Cards would overvalue him and he also is probably not good. I'd rather sign one of the many FA SPs. I'd target all their LHB position players because those aren't available in FA as I see it

 

Again - difficult to sign FA pitching depth. If you get Liberatore, he has options and can start in AAA. That's the type of depth we need. He's also help fill the void once Kikucci and others reach the end of their contracts.

[Laika]

Again - difficult to sign FA pitching depth. If you get Liberatore, he has options and can start in AAA. That's the type of depth we need. He's also help fill the void once Kikucci and others reach the end of their contracts.

 

main problem is Liberatore kinda sucks. Bad fastball shape. But he's 24 and was a top 100 prospect recently so the Cardinals probably think he's a gem.

[glory]

Manoah for Carlson + and then sign FA SPs is a potential boon for us.

 

I had a similar thought, but more like Kikuchi for O'Neill and then signing a FA SP. I don't mind trading Manoah, but not for Carlson. Maybe it's Varsho PTSD but when the statcast page is excessively blue in the important offensive categories, I'm not trading any real assets for it unless it's an important position. Since Carlson wouldn't be playing CF here, I don't see the point in a trade like that, especially when the Jays would be selling low on Manoah in that scenario.

[Terminator]

Ok so let's fleece the Cardinals again for one of their OF and Edman. Then let's fleece the Mariners again, this time for Suarez. Sign Ohtani or Yomamafat (doesn't matter which) and then print the World Series tickets.

[Terminator]

There's nothing more fun than perusing a poorly run team's Roster Resource page and hand selecting trade targets knowing that there's a chance it could happen.

 

I wish that woman was still running the Marlins I had a bunch of Espinal trades lined up this offseason.

[Brownie19]

I had a similar thought, but more like Kikuchi for O'Neill and then signing a FA SP. I don't mind trading Manoah, but not for Carlson. Maybe it's Varsho PTSD but when the statcast page is excessively blue in the important offensive categories, I'm not trading any real assets for it unless it's an important position. Since Carlson wouldn't be playing CF here, I don't see the point in a trade like that, especially when the Jays would be selling low on Manoah in that scenario.

 

I tend to agree with this. Cooch is coming off a really good year. I'd love to swing a little higher than O'Neill.

[Spanky99]

Ok so let's fleece the Cardinals again for one of their OF and Edman. Then let's fleece the Mariners again, this time for Suarez. Sign Ohtani or Yomamafat (doesn't matter which) and then print the World Series tickets.

 

Easy Peasy...

[Carlos Danger]

Ok so let's fleece the Cardinals again for one of their OF and Edman. Then let's fleece the Mariners again, this time for Suarez. Sign Ohtani or Yomamafat (doesn't matter which) and then print the World Series tickets.

 

When did WE ever fleece the Cardinals?

[Terminator]

When did WE ever fleece the Cardinals?

 

I don't know just go with it

[Spanky99]

Are the Cardinals buying or selling? Hmm... they need pitching if buying. The Carlson/Manoah rumour makes sense, but I'm not sure they part with Edman or Donovan. If selling, they can turn that team around quickly with all them assets.

[Terminator]

Are the Cardinals buying or selling? Hmm... they need pitching if buying. The Carlson/Manoah rumour makes sense, but I'm not sure they part with Edman or Donavan.

 

Yeah Carlson and Oneil are definitely on the block.

 

I seem to remember Edman and Donavan being on the block before. Edman looks like he's the starting SS now though. Donavan might be more movable for them.

 

Aside from Liberatore they have a ton of AAA SP, especially after we traded two of them at the deadline last year. They'd move one of them too I'm sure.

[jaysblue]

I've owned Carlson and O'Neill in LOD, those dudes are always hurt, not a fan. Very frustrating to say the least. Donavan or Edman would be ideal to that.

 

You need to hire a new medical staff to keep your guys healthy.

[deanmike]

As far as the gap... I dunno. Some prospect. Cooper Hjerpe or Sem Robberse or something.

Carlson+Robberse (9 total BTV surplus value) and Carlson+Hjerpe (11.5 total) are not realistic because Atkins gains at least 5-10 surplus value on almost every trade he makes (at the time they are made). He doesn't accept/offer trades which lose surplus value for the Jays.

 

Could you get Matthew Liberatore + Carlson? That would really help with our SP'ing depth. Still so hard to wrap your head around the reality that this is what Manoah is now worth...

Carlson+Liberatore (21.8 total) is definitely within the realistic range, as the Jays would gain 7.4 surplus value.

 

Throw in Tyler O'Neill and it would be better.

Not enough for Atkins to pull the trigger, Carlson+O'Neill (11.3 total) would be a loss of surplus value.

[Omar]

Ok so let's fleece the Cardinals again for one of their OF and Edman. Then let's fleece the Mariners again, this time for Suarez. Sign Ohtani or Yomamafat (doesn't matter which) and then print the World Series tickets.

 

Nolan Gorman is a name that keeps coming up for the last three weeks. Would be a great fit with our infield. I think Atkins is close.

[Spanky99]

Carlson+Robberse (9 total BTV surplus value) and Carlson+Hjerpe (11.5 total) are not realistic because Atkins gains at least 5-10 surplus value on almost every trade he makes (at the time they are made). He doesn't accept/offer trades which lose surplus value for the Jays.

 

 

Carlson+Liberatore (21.8 total) is definitely within the realistic range, as the Jays would gain 7.4 surplus value.

 

 

Not enough for Atkins to pull the trigger, Carlson+O'Neill (11.3 total) would be a loss of surplus value.

 

BTV isn't gospel, bro. It's a decent tool as a barometer though.

[Laika]

Yeah Carlson and Oneil are definitely on the block.

 

I seem to remember Edman and Donavan being on the block before. Edman looks like he's the starting SS now though. Donavan might be more movable for them.

 

Aside from Liberatore they have a ton of AAA SP, especially after we traded two of them at the deadline last year. They'd move one of them too I'm sure.

 

They might think Masyn Winn is good and therefore they can part with Edman and his 2 remaining years of control.

 

Winn sucked in his 2023 cameo but he's tooled up. Traditional scouts might think he's a stud.

[deanmike]

Nolan Gorman is a name that keeps coming up for the last three weeks. Would be a great fit with our infield. I think Atkins is close.

 

Gorman being part of a Manoah for Carlson swap would probably require the Jays to add Orelvis+Barriera/Babe Schneider.

 

Carlson+Gorman (43.8 total surplus value) for Manoah+Orelvis+Barriera/Babe (36.2-36.6 total surplus value) would be in the realistic range as the Jays would gain between 7.2-7.6 surplus value.

Edited November 9, 2023 by deanmike

[deanmike]

BTV isn't gospel, bro. It's a decent tool as a barometer though.

 

Definitely isn't gospel you're right, however in terms of predicting Jays trade returns, I've been very surprised at how Atkins seems to gain between 5-10 surplus value on almost every trade he makes (at the time they are made).

[glory]

I tend to agree with this. Cooch is coming off a really good year. I'd love to swing a little higher than O'Neill.

 

Yeah something better than O'Neill would be great but hard to see what Kikuchi's value would look like to other teams. He's coming off a good year and only makes $10m in 2024 so he's good value, but track record isn't there and he's already in his 30's. I mentioned O'Neill because the Cardinals are apparently looking to trade him and he comes with the same control as Kooch. It's a deal that fills holes for both teams, and O'Neill is good enough defensively to not compromise the run prevention component that Atkins was adamant about last winter.

 

Gorman would be an interesting target. LHB with control and lots of red on the statcast page. Would be a fit, at least offensively.

[Laika]

I f***ing love Tyler O'Neill. Go get him.

[Jimcanuck]

I'm skeptical that Manoah has much value to other teams and there are a lot of pipedreams in this here thread.

[MikeM3]

I'm skeptical that Manoah has much value to other teams and there are a lot of pipedreams in this here thread.

 

Big strong horse for Mozeliak to fawn over

[Spanky99]

I'm skeptical that Manoah has much value to other teams and there are a lot of pipedreams in this here thread.

 

Dylan Carlson seems about right, this time last year we'd all be call a fool. Anyhow, it's just speculation on the writer's part from MLBTR.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Talkin about the Cards, I wonder if they'd trade Arenado?

[Spanky99]

Talkin about the Cards, I wonder if they'd trade Arenado?

 

That's why I asked earlier if they're buying or selling, lol. As soon as one of him or Goldy get moved it'll have a ripple effect.

[Marew]

I don’t think the jays should hire Shohei Ohtani. I think he’s peaked. Why pay for previous performance?

[Jonn]

f*** Dylan Carlson. I want Lars Nootbaar or they can f*** off.