General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[John_Havok]

I agree, bring up Horowitz and give him a look. Maybe the time off and a Horowitz hot streak (?) Helps motivate Vlad to have a consistent game plan and approach when he returns.

 

Vlad's problem is not that he doesn't have a consistent game plan, his game plan if very consistent. The problem is his consistent game plan is f***ing stupid.

[THANOS]

Vlad's problem is not that he doesn't have a consistent game plan, his game plan if very consistent. The problem is his consistent game plan is f***ing stupid.

 

It's just so weird to me. The guy has the bat to ball talent of his father, or at least close to that, and came up with a great eye, despite the fatness.

 

He's probably a bit fatter this year than 2021, but it's not like he's the 2020 version.

 

His approach and great eye and vanished this year and he just swings at whatever each AB. You would think he would get more seasoned with each year instead of more confused lol.

[BigCecil]

LOL!:

 

whats funny? Espy has options and can do down. Is there some metric (s) you have that shows he is better offensively and or defensively than DeJong of any legit SS? Espy is a neg WAR player this year with a 65 wRC+ and a s***** OAA and just about every other D metric.

[jaysblue]

This is insane. In what way is he a 'better bat' than Espinal? Espinal posted 99 and 115 wRC+ hitting the previous two seasons. You have to go all the way back to 2019 to find an even remotely similar hitting season from DeJong (101 wRC+). They are both horrible this season, but Espinal at least has recent performance to point to.

 

DeJong has more "pop upside", but he is also posting 30%+ strikeout rates both this season and last season. His batting averages the past three seasons: .197, .157, .211. He is NOT a "better bat" than Espinal.

 

Lmao! Geez you seem so irritated, chill man!

 

I'm not going to waste my time going back and forth with you arguing about which player is better, DeJong or Espinal haha. But I'll say my two cents.

 

Both players suck and shouldn't be starters. Espinal offensively doesn't provide much value if he's in the lineup everyday. Not saying DeJong is leap and bounds way better, but DeJong could at least hit for some pop. Sucks DeJong wasn't able to hit during his short stint here but it was a small sample size. If Bo was out for an extended period of time, I would rather have DeJong hitting 8th or 9th and in the field everyday instead of Espinal. DeJong was worth 1.5 WAR with the Cards before the trade, so he was having a pretty solid year. Espinal has been a negative WAR player all year.

 

Espinal had options so I would have kept DeJong around a bit longer in case an injury to their infield pops up or if Bo tweaks something again. Regardless, I'm not going to lose any sleep over either player.

[Laika]

DeJong is 30

 

Most of the projection systems give Espinal the edge offensively

 

But, both suck.

[Stangstag]

It's just so weird to me. The guy has the bat to ball talent of his father, or at least close to that, and came up with a great eye, despite the fatness.

 

He's probably a bit fatter this year than 2021, but it's not like he's the 2020 version.

 

His approach and great eye and vanished this year and he just swings at whatever each AB. You would think he would get more seasoned with each year instead of more confused lol.

 

Yeah dude isn’t learning at all.

 

I guess that’s expected, he didn’t really go to highschool. Doesn’t actually know how to learn. Been in the Jays system since he was 16

[Terminator]

Yeah dude isn’t learning at all.

 

I guess that’s expected, he didn’t really go to highschool. Doesn’t actually know how to learn. Been in the Jays system since he was 16

 

Wow! That's quite the take. Lots of Dominican players have been in organized baseball since they were 16 or 17 and plenty of them "know how to learn."

[Stangstag]

Wow! That's quite the take. Lots of Dominican players have been in organized baseball since they were 16 or 17 and plenty of them "know how to learn."

 

Vlad just DIFFERENT

[BigCecil]

Lmao! Geez you seem so irritated, chill man!

 

I'm not going to waste my time going back and forth with you arguing about which player is better, DeJong or Espinal haha. But I'll say my two cents.

 

Both players suck and shouldn't be starters. Espinal offensively doesn't provide much value if he's in the lineup everyday. Not saying DeJong is leap and bounds way better, but DeJong could at least hit for some pop. Sucks DeJong wasn't able to hit during his short stint here but it was a small sample size. If Bo was out for an extended period of time, I would rather have DeJong hitting 8th or 9th and in the field everyday instead of Espinal. DeJong was worth 1.5 WAR with the Cards before the trade, so he was having a pretty solid year. Espinal has been a negative WAR player all year.

 

Espinal had options so I would have kept DeJong around a bit longer in case an injury to their infield pops up or if Bo tweaks something again. Regardless, I'm not going to lose any sleep over either player.

 

DeJong is 30

 

Most of the projection systems give Espinal the edge offensively

 

But, both suck.

 

That’s fair. They both suck. No need for Meta4 to burst a blood vessel over it lol. If Espy is better than Dejong it kind of begs the question why we got Dejong in the first place. One has options the other doesn't. Neither is much of a bat. But lets move on. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze on either of these players.

[Laika]

That’s fair. They both suck. No need for Meta4 to burst a blood vessel over it. If Espy is better than Dejong it kind of begs the question why the hell we got Dejong in the first place. One has options the other doesn't. But lets move on. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze on either of these players.

 

Better SS defender I think

 

DeJong was at 1.5 fWAR when the trade happened. Maybe the team thought a 85 wRC+ with pop would be preferable to a contact driven 85 wRC+. Who knows.

[G-Snarls]

Better SS defender I think

 

DeJong was at 1.5 fWAR when the trade happened. Maybe the team thought a 85 wRC+ with pop would be preferable to a contact driven 85 wRC+. Who knows.

 

I'm just really really glad that Bo's back

[Terminator]

Espinal has barreled one baseball this season lol

[mphenhef]

Based on Buck and Dan's comments today there might be some friction between Manoah and management on where to go from here

 

I didn't hear what Buck and Dan had to say, but I wonder if he is sticking with the team to work with Ryu a bit as him and Manoah have had a good relationship and maybe they are hoping Ryu can get through to him.

[JaysAllMighty]

Vlad just DIFFERENT

 

He's a little slow

[max silver]

Espinal has barreled one baseball this season lol

 

He should spend more time in batting practice with Biggio to learn how to barrel baseballs.

[Spanky99]

Im shocked. Guess the Jays really just wanted him as insurance in case Bichette was out longer…. But he was pretty damn awful albeit in a SSS. Surprised the front office decided to cut bait so soon over sending Espinal to AAA

 

Agreed, this caught me off-guard today(no wi-fi). He's sublime defensively and has hit LHP'ing better with more pop, doesn't compute.

[jaysblue]

Agreed, this caught me off-guard today(no wi-fi). He's sublime defensively and has hit LHP'ing better with more pop, doesn't compute.

 

If nobody claims him, he could be sent to Buffalo?

[metafour]

Lmao! Geez you seem so irritated, chill man!

 

I'm not going to waste my time going back and forth with you arguing about which player is better, DeJong or Espinal haha. But I'll say my two cents.

 

Hey man, thanks for chiming in!

 

There was literally nothing 'irritated' about my post. I was shocked at suggestion that a guy who over the past three seasons has posted a 74 wRC+ is a "better bat" than a guy who over that same timeframe has posted a 96 wRC+. It's a really eye-opening suggestion, considering that Espinal was a league-average bat literally last season. You literally have to move backwards out of the 2020's to find the last time that DeJong was near league-average.

[Spanky99]

Based on Buck and Dan's comments today there might be some friction between Manoah and management on where to go from here

 

Really?

[Spanky99]

Manoah isn't refusing assignment you dingleberries... he can't for one without being suspended, they haven't decided his next step yet?

 

Manoah has yet to pitch for Triple-A Buffalo since being demoted eight days ago, with the Blue Jays still working out when he'll return to the mound, Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca reports.

 

Manoah isn't dealing with any reported injuries this season but has seen his effectiveness completely evaporate, going from a 2.24 ERA and 0.99 WHIP last season to a 5.87 ERA and 1.74 WHIP in 2023. He's been demoted on two separate occasions, and the Blue Jays are seemingly in no rush to get him back in the big-league rotation. It's hard to count on him even returning at all this season, let alone returning and pitching at a high level. Perhaps the patient approach the Jays are taking helps him return to viability next season.

 

This whole situation is a bit confusing, as well. It's understandable why the Jays don't want to pitch him at the major league level as they battle in the standings, but it's not known why they won't pitch him at the minor league level at this time. Perhaps it's just to clear his head, but we don't know.

 

Toronto enters play on Sunday at 68-56 and in third place in the American League East. They also trail in the battle for the final wild card spot by 0.5 games.

[Spanky99]

Its hard to believe Sportsnet kicked off the a season with Manoah and Hazel Mae:'Alek Manoah: Obsessed,' a six-part series documenting pitcher's path to Blue Jays.

 

Baseball is a tough game. Manoah has to work and fight his way back.

 

That was way too premature.

[Spanky99]

This is insane. In what way is he a 'better bat' than Espinal? Espinal posted 99 and 115 wRC+ hitting the previous two seasons. You have to go all the way back to 2019 to find an even remotely similar hitting season from DeJong (101 wRC+). They are both horrible this season, but Espinal at least has recent performance to point to.

 

DeJong has more "pop upside", but he is also posting 30%+ strikeout rates both this season and last season. His batting averages the past three seasons: .197, .157, .211. He is NOT a "better bat" than Espinal.

 

But Espinal has options, why f*** with free depth, DeJong has been the better overall bat against LHP'ing this season and his defense is good? Saying that isn't egregious or anything it was an easy fix, call Espy back at worst in September.

[Spanky99]

That’s fair. They both suck. No need for Meta4 to burst a blood vessel over it lol. If Espy is better than Dejong it kind of begs the question why we got Dejong in the first place. One has options the other doesn't. Neither is much of a bat. But lets move on. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze on either of these players.

 

Bingo, still stupid to throw an arguably better asset away.

[Spanky99]

Espinal has barreled one baseball this season lol

 

lol

[Spanky99]

If nobody claims him, he could be sent to Buffalo?

 

No, he'll refuse assignment and become a FA, too much service time.

[Stangstag]

Manoah isn't refusing assignment you dingleberries... he can't for one without being suspended, they haven't decided his next step yet?

 

Its just suspicious that he’s not pitching right now… people probably reading too much into it but I guess its possible the FO told him to sit on his ass at home

[bronson44]

Guess we want the Bosox to beat the Stro's. Down 4-3 now.

[Nursehoneybadger]

I guess spanking isn't a thing anymore but my best friend had an attitude problem and a few spankings from my dad when he was over at my house did him real good. Wonder if Manoah needs one. I'm talking when we were like 8, not weird adult spanking fetish stuff, just good old discipline. Spank his way back into being a top starter.

[AMS528]

I guess spanking isn't a thing anymore but my best friend had an attitude problem and a few spankings from my dad when he was over at my house did him real good. Wonder if Manoah needs one. I'm talking when we were like 8, not weird adult spanking fetish stuff, just good old discipline. Spank his way back into being a top starter.

 

No don't worry it was definitely weird and wrong. There's not like a single word in this post that was necessary. None of us needed to know any of that, or how you connected it with Manoah.

[Nursehoneybadger]

No don't worry it was definitely weird and wrong. There's not like a single word in this post that was necessary. None of us needed to know any of that, or how you connected it with Manoah.

 

wow!