General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Stangstag]

 

Expected

[DonJays]

I think it can be a bit of both. Players are failing yes but I believe they’re also getting bad advice

 

The hitting coach will watch video and suggest swing tweaks. They won’t tell them to avoid playing to their strengths. I personally believe management and coaching have a pretty small impact on players in most sports. Pitchers are definitely a bit more unique however. Schneider is a glorified cheerleader that follows instructions

[DonJays]

I think it can be a bit of both. Players are failing yes but I believe they’re also getting bad advice

 

Also, not meaning to single out your post, I know half the people on here place loads of blame on the staff

[Delgalladay]

Yeah it’s insanity. Like if you ran the projections 100 times you probably come up with the 1-14 result once.

 

Seems like there's always some weird anomaly with this team. The 2021 team missing the playoffs with their +1000 run differential still stings.

[Laika]

I mean if we have an interview with Guillermo or Schneider directly saying "this is our new hitting philosophy that we expect all players to follow" than I would believe that. You'll always have a hard time convincing me that their numbers with RISP are terrible because the hitting coach is telling/forcing them to adapt a new approach that he expects everyone on the team to buy into. Do you think the coach is still telling them the same thing right now and just telling them it's all bad luck - don't change a thing?

 

"just make contact" doesn't seem to show up in the numbers either as our K% is up this year and the highest it's been since 2020. Obviously new players effect this. Is our K% with RISP way down or something? Where are we seeing evidence of a different team philosophy?

 

I don't think it's a team-wide philosophy thing

 

Each player seems to have specific issues

 

Vlad - same old spray angle and GB% problems

Kirk - lost his power stroke for a while + some basic growing pains

Springer - is old and losing bat speed, I guess? I dunno.

Varsho - mechanical flaws with swing + some poor basic tools

[Olerud363]

No problem. I canÂ’t now, but IÂ’m guessing Vlad falls into point number one in which he hits most of his fly balls to center field, which would cause his xWOBA underperformance. Would love if anyone could confirm this.

 

When I've dived into the stats a bit I haven't found Vlad's pull rate and center rate to be crazy bad or anything. However....

 

His ground ball rate is sort of high, and his pull rate a bit lower than you'd like... but as you mention where it really could get crazy bad is when you separate it into spray and angle, so if a lot of the pulled hits are grounders, and a huge number of the fly balls are center then that kind of explains everything.,

[gruber92]

The big issue is - what are you going to get for him? As Olerud is going to point out, he's going to be grossly overpaid very soon for a guy coming off a 0.5 WAR season who's obese and one of the worst defenders and base runners in baseball. I worry the Jays hands are tied. You're just hoping he can give you a season somewhat like 2021 to rebuild his trade value so you can get a haul for him. The chances of that happening are probably 'just' good enough that it's worth holding onto him instead of dumping him for a bag of balls.

 

I'd be more than happy if we could flip Vladdy to the Braves for Olson somehow. I'll take Olson for the next six years through his age 35 season at $22M AAV. If he turns into Belt in his final few years, so be it.

[JFD]

Poor Vlad must be depressed seeing what guys like Acuna Jr and Soto are doing. Better looking and better ball players. Must be rough.

[Captain_Obvious]

Poor Vlad must be depressed seeing what guys like Acuna Jr and Soto are doing. Better looking and better ball players. Must be rough.

 

Are you talking about Vlad? He could be hitting as bad as Varsho and would still think he is the greatest in the world.

[BigCecil]

Also, not meaning to single out your post, I know half the people on here place loads of blame on the staff

 

Count me in the camp who doesn't. I thought the "walks on water" praise of Pete Walker in the Ray year was ridiculous, similarly I don't feel he is responsible in any meaningful manner for Manoah's epic rise and fall.

 

The coaches help or hurt on the edges. Its minor.

 

Same for the hitting coaches. These are grown men professionals who have experience and stand to make a lot of money. A hitting coach normally only does so much and its marginal around the edges.

 

Of course there are exceptions where a coach can help a player with a new approach like Jose adopting the leg kick and taking off but thats extremely rare and isolated.

[glory]

I vaguely remember Matt Stairs blaming Gary Denbo for the team’s offensive struggles in 2008 and then praising the shift when Cito came in. Maybe I’m misremembering. Not saying we need Cito back but I think hitting coaches can make a difference. Whether that’s the reason for the 2023 team’s struggles is impossible to know from our end.

[G-Snarls]

So Bo is going on the IL

 

Pearson down. Hatch up.

[G-Snarls]

[DonJays]

Count me in the camp who doesn't. I thought the "walks on water" praise of Pete Walker in the Ray year was ridiculous, similarly I don't feel he is responsible in any meaningful manner for Manoah's epic rise and fall.

 

The coaches help or hurt on the edges. Its minor.

 

Same for the hitting coaches. These are grown men professionals who have experience and stand to make a lot of money. A hitting coach normally only does so much and its marginal around the edges.

 

Of course there are exceptions where a coach can help a player with a new approach like Jose adopting the leg kick and taking off but thats extremely rare and isolated.

 

Very well said. The Walker praise was always hilarious. He was a pitching guru and now that Manoah is fat and has a noodle arm Walker is trash!

[keggy]

 

Our bullpen will be short while we have a 6 man rotation. Expect a lot of roster abuse over the next couple of weeks.

[DonJays]

I vaguely remember Matt Stairs blaming Gary Denbo for the team’s offensive struggles in 2008 and then praising the shift when Cito came in. Maybe I’m misremembering. Not saying we need Cito back but I think hitting coaches can make a difference. Whether that’s the reason for the 2023 team’s struggles is impossible to know from our end.

It’s not impossible to know it’s just common sense and understanding how pro sports work. If cans need a scapegoat they should be looking at Atkin’s. he assembled a roster of out of shape, low intensity underachievers. I’m not a management hater as I think they have been OK. But if you need someone to blame coaching should be near the bottom of the list

[Jonn]

I really don’t know why people are panicking about a potential Vlad contract that hasn’t happened yet lol. Our front office isn’t stupid they are not going to give him a monster extension after his previous 2 Seasons. They are likely going to go year to year with him through arbitration.

 

Not overly worried about it.

[Daniel Labude]

I mean if we have an interview with Guillermo or Schneider directly saying "this is our new hitting philosophy that we expect all players to follow" than I would believe that. You'll always have a hard time convincing me that their numbers with RISP are terrible because the hitting coach is telling/forcing them to adapt a new approach that he expects everyone on the team to buy into. Do you think the coach is still telling them the same thing right now and just telling them it's all bad luck - don't change a thing?

 

"just make contact" doesn't seem to show up in the numbers either as our K% is up this year and the highest it's been since 2020. Obviously new players effect this. Is our K% with RISP way down or something? Where are we seeing evidence of a different team philosophy?

 

I never post on here as trolls seem to be taking over but I’m a diehard jays fan and have been observing on this site for many years. This is the stupidest bs I’ve heard on here. This is not a hitting coaches job and the player’s incompetence is the reason the offence is underperforming.

 

The hitting coach will watch video and suggest swing tweaks. They won’t tell them to avoid playing to their strengths. I personally believe management and coaching have a pretty small impact on players in most sports. Pitchers are definitely a bit more unique however. Schneider is a glorified cheerleader that follows instructions

 

I'd be more than happy if we could flip Vladdy to the Braves for Olson somehow. I'll take Olson for the next six years through his age 35 season at $22M AAV. If he turns into Belt in his final few years, so be it.

 

Count me in the camp who doesn't. I thought the "walks on water" praise of Pete Walker in the Ray year was ridiculous, similarly I don't feel he is responsible in any meaningful manner for Manoah's epic rise and fall.

 

The coaches help or hurt on the edges. Its minor.

 

Same for the hitting coaches. These are grown men professionals who have experience and stand to make a lot of money. A hitting coach normally only does so much and its marginal around the edges.

 

Of course there are exceptions where a coach can help a player with a new approach like Jose adopting the leg kick and taking off but thats extremely rare and isolated.

 

It’s not impossible to know it’s just common sense and understanding how pro sports work. If cans need a scapegoat they should be looking at Atkin’s. he assembled a roster of out of shape, low intensity underachievers. I’m not a management hater as I think they have been OK. But if you need someone to blame coaching should be near the bottom of the list

 

[Jimcanuck]

 

Are you OK?

[BlueBaller]

He just still thinks vladdy is awesome.

[Daniel Labude]

Are you OK?

 

In general yeah I am ok. Last 7 months have been pretty rough, so entertaining myself here helps

[Stangstag]

In general yeah I am ok. Last 7 months have been pretty rough, so entertaining myself here helps

 

Maybe don’t let Vlad’s performance dictate your mental health

[Daniel Labude]

Maybe don’t let Vlad’s performance dictate your mental health

 

It does not. Now reading the stupid stuff that results in 1000 posts from that on here probably isn't good lol, hence entertaining myself

[Jimcanuck]

In general yeah I am ok. Last 7 months have been pretty rough, so entertaining myself here helps

 

Caught the g/f with your best bud?

[Daniel Labude]

Caught the g/f with your best bud?

 

s*** its crazier than that. Short version

 

Woke up in the middle of the night with a bat in my bedroom repeatedly crashing into the window. Managed to get out and run into a bathroom...the bat comes right at me and I fight through it to get out, run full speed into a wall (rolled my ankle I think caused this), then bounced into another bedroom. In the end, I basically exploded my thumb, torn ligament, torn tendons, nerve damage, needed rabies shots, and have had PTSD pretty bad which has lead to an extreme lack of sleep or good sleep. Couldn't move my thumb for 3-4 months. Have regained most motion, but can't lift anything, grip some things

[Stangstag]

s*** its crazier than that. Short version

 

Woke up in the middle of the night with a bat in my bedroom repeatedly crashing into the window. Managed to get out and run into a bathroom...the bat comes right at me and I fight through it to get out, run full speed into a wall (rolled my ankle I think caused this), then bounced into another bedroom. In the end, I basically exploded my thumb, torn ligament, torn tendons, nerve damage, needed rabies shots, and have had PTSD pretty bad which has lead to an extreme lack of sleep or good sleep. Couldn't move my thumb for 3-4 months. Have regained most motion, but can't lift anything, grip some things

 

[wamco]

Well played

[connorp]

s*** its crazier than that. Short version

 

Woke up in the middle of the night with a bat in my bedroom repeatedly crashing into the window. Managed to get out and run into a bathroom...the bat comes right at me and I fight through it to get out, run full speed into a wall (rolled my ankle I think caused this), then bounced into another bedroom. In the end, I basically exploded my thumb, torn ligament, torn tendons, nerve damage, needed rabies shots, and have had PTSD pretty bad which has lead to an extreme lack of sleep or good sleep. Couldn't move my thumb for 3-4 months. Have regained most motion, but can't lift anything, grip some things

 

Best thing you can do is go to some Oriental country and climb a mountain. Find one of the Buddha huts on the side of a mountain. Take a hallucinogen. Then open a chest full of bats that come flying out.

 

Should get rid of the PTSD from what I’ve seen

[Stangstag]

Best thing you can do is go to some Oriental country and climb a mountain. Find one of the Buddha huts on the side of a mountain. Take a hallucinogen. Then open a chest full of bats that come flying out.

 

Should get rid of the PTSD from what I’ve seen

 

Wat

[Laika]

s*** its crazier than that. Short version

 

Woke up in the middle of the night with a bat in my bedroom repeatedly crashing into the window. Managed to get out and run into a bathroom...the bat comes right at me and I fight through it to get out, run full speed into a wall (rolled my ankle I think caused this), then bounced into another bedroom. In the end, I basically exploded my thumb, torn ligament, torn tendons, nerve damage, needed rabies shots, and have had PTSD pretty bad which has lead to an extreme lack of sleep or good sleep. Couldn't move my thumb for 3-4 months. Have regained most motion, but can't lift anything, grip some things