General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[John_Havok]

If Green is still a stud when he comes back, between him, Romano, Mayza, Swanson and Richards the Jays have late inning relief covered pretty well IMO. As mentioned, Garcia has been much better lately so those 6 relievers are a pretty strong set.

 

I hate trading for relievers because even the best can s*** the bed with a change of scenery, but Bednar would be a really nice addition along with Green.

 

No doubt, that way you could use a Garcia as that 1st option fireman earlier in games while still having multiple reliable strikeout arms to get them to the backend guys. It would also be exceptionally excellent if Cabrera proves useful

[Jonn]

GDT for anyone who has the LetTheBallFly on ignore

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/11060-GDT-1-3-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Los-Angeles-Dodgers(10-10-ET)

[Jonn]

Yeah someone like Garcia should be replaceable every season. We know what Garcia is and at 6M it's a little pricey paying that for a 6th/7th inning guy. Jays need to do a better job at replacing him either via in house or by targeting other reliever FAs who could be better. Finding middle relievers during the offseason shouldn't be difficult. There are always guys who could be had for some good value.

 

Exactly how I am viewing it. I feel like we should be able to bring guys in from the minors or minor league deals that can fill Bullpen rules. There is also always guys returning from injuries or had a down season and are had for cheap. I don't dislike Yimi in the proper role. I don't like him in that role at $6m. But people here seem to disagree and that's fine.

[Spanky99]

Yeah someone like Garcia should be replaceable every season. We know what Garcia is and at 6M it's a little pricey paying that for a 6th/7th inning guy. Jays need to do a better job at replacing him either via in house or by targeting other reliever FAs who could be better. Finding middle relievers during the offseason shouldn't be difficult. There are always guys who could be had for some good value.

 

Like in house depth today. lol... Sil stop f***ing gaslighting you idiot.

[Spanky99]

I don't think guys are being yanked too early. But its good to assess the situation at hand. Sometimes it doesn't hurt having Gausman, Bassitt or Berrios go through a lineup for a 4th time. Again depending on a lot of things.

 

The Jays don't have a pen that could close out a 2-1 game starting in the 6th inning. I just don't feel comfortable. That's pushing it to its limits and lets say trying to do that back-to-back games in a Wildcard match, not good.

 

Look at Game 2 of the WC last year. Heck they couldn't even close an 8-1 lead when they took Gausman out.

 

This is ignorant, sit down.

[Daniel Labude]

GDT for anyone who has the LetTheBallFly on ignore

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/11060-GDT-1-3-Toronto-Blue-Jays-Los-Angeles-Dodgers(10-10-ET)

 

Jonn's the real MVP

[max silver]

Regarding the bullpen, it's less about performance and more about the abhorrent misuse. In a 2-1 tight game with your SP rolling and offense whiffing air you roll with your SP for as long as possible.

 

The decision on Gausman gets a little bit of wiggle room this time around given his injury status and he wasn't great that game but this dolt of a management team system has consistently yanked him early when they haven't had to. A 32 yo 11-year veteran who has proven himself to be a top 20 arm in this game can afford to face hitters three or four times in a game. A guy like Gausman SHOULD be talented and smart enough to make in-game adjustments to the point where a third or fourth look is as new as it is with an RP.

 

I hate these "trendy smart" analytics probably pushed by 120 pound nerds allergic to soy milk. If every team follows these dumbass rules "cuz analytics" religiously like they did bunting back in the 1980's, it turns from an advantage into a disadvantage. I don't care what they think they know, or what extremely asymmetrical access to information they have compared to myself. This s*** that they are pulling clearly does not work. A potential sweep of the M's turned into a 1-2 series.

 

A team with a BP this good on paper per the stats should not be resulting in this many blown leads. This is why people think the BP is a lot worse than it is. If Gausman, Berrios and Bassitt at pitching well that day, they should go a minimum of 7 innings and a complete game should be goal. Especially if the Jays are going to go with a six man rotation.

 

I had no issues with pulling Gausman after 6 innings. He was coming off a minor injury after a pretty lengthy layoff and featured a really mediocre fastball on the day. He was fortunate to only allow 4 runs given how he allowed 4 gone runs. If ever there was a day to push him further this wasn't it.

[G-Snarls]

4 games behind Tampa

[JaysAllMighty]

And he gets away with it

 

 

[jaysblue]

Like in house depth today. lol... Sil stop f***ing gaslighting you idiot.

 

You're such a huge homer when it comes to criticism of this FO. You can build cheap bullpens every offseason by finding guys coming back from injury or who had a down year. Or looking in-house. Relievers are volatile. Its alright to have turnover with middle relief arms. For a team that is at its luxury tax limit almost, I'm sure they could find an arm who could replace Garcia at 1/3 or 1/4 the cost.

[jaysblue]

This is ignorant, sit down.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

Going to the bullpen early in Game 2 last Wildcard series cost the Jays. I'm sure they could have squeezed another inning out of Gausman, their so called ace. Their bullpen couldn't even close out an 8-1 game in the Postseason, I can't wait to see them try to close out a 2-1 or 3-1 game from the 6th on.

[Brownie19]

You're such a huge homer when it comes to criticism of this FO. You can build cheap bullpens every offseason by finding guys coming back from injury or who had a down year. Or looking in-house. Relievers are volatile. Its alright to have turnover with middle relief arms. For a team that is at its luxury tax limit almost, I'm sure they could find an arm who could replace Garcia at 1/3 or 1/4 the cost.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of the posters who complains every offseason that this team doesn't spend enough on the bullpen and should bring in more proven pieces? Or am I mistaking you with someone else? Garcia for $6M is really solid. Look at the guys who got between $2M and $8M last offseaon. It's a pretty gross list.

 

That said, it does look like we have a nice group of RPers coming up through the system and it would be great to add in some cheap, controllable arms so we can allocate $$$ elsewhere and wouldn't expect us to try and keep Garcia beyond 2024.

[max silver]

You're such a huge homer when it comes to criticism of this FO. You can build cheap bullpens every offseason by finding guys coming back from injury or who had a down year. Or looking in-house. Relievers are volatile. Its alright to have turnover with middle relief arms. For a team that is at its luxury tax limit almost, I'm sure they could find an arm who could replace Garcia at 1/3 or 1/4 the cost.

 

Missing from this entire conversation aside from the poster who originally brought it up is that Garcia has a vesting option for next season, so aside from a trade or an absolutely stupid decision like a mid-season DFA that would greatly weaken the overall pen, he's going to be coming back next season.

[John_Havok]

Spekaing of the pen, I missed the entire game after the 3rd inning last night, how did the new lefty look?

[Orgfiller]

Spekaing of the pen, I missed the entire game after the 3rd inning last night, how did the new lefty look?

 

See for yourself: https://youtu.be/wxQ02IkEB6o?t=1260

[The Cats Ass]

And he gets away with it

 

 

 

And how is that a strike?

[Brownie19]

See for yourself: https://youtu.be/wxQ02IkEB6o?t=1260

 

95-96 MPH 2 seamer with an 89-90 MPH slider. Threw lots of strikes and looked pretty filthy really.

[John_Havok]

95-96 MPH 2 seamer with an 89-90 MPH slider. Threw lots of strikes and looked pretty filthy really.

 

Just watched all his pitches, Definitely has some great life on them. looks like Taylor was picking him up really well, but the lefties were not. Will be a real weapon against lefties

[John_Havok]

There's talk now Ryu wont be activated until after the deadline, though could still start against the Angels.

 

 

Right now things are lined up to see Gausman vs Ohtani. Yes please.

[Terminator]

Not sure how much we can glean from a single inning, but it's obvious that the Jays would likely change Genesis' pitch mix. Here is what he threw with the Cardinals:

 

vs LHB

Slider 47%

4-Seam 32%

Curve 12%

Sinker 8.5%

 

vs RHB

4-Seam 33%

Slider 28%

Curveball 16%

Sinker 12%

Changeup 11%

 

And here he is in his debut with the Jays:

 

vs LHB

Sinker 67%

Slider 33%

 

vs RHB

Slider 50%

4-Seam 38%

Curveball 13% (he threw against Chris Taylor in the first pitch of the AB to "steal" a strike)

 

So right off the bat they simplified things for him by eliminating the changeup entirely and then using the curveball only as a show me pitch on a 0-0 count. The Sinker-Slider combo vs LHB vs Slider-4 Seamer vs RHB also sticks out.

[MikeM3]

Cards had him throwing more sinkers vs RHB than LHB? What a dumb org

[Spanky99]

You're such a huge homer when it comes to criticism of this FO. You can build cheap bullpens every offseason by finding guys coming back from injury or who had a down year. Or looking in-house. Relievers are volatile. Its alright to have turnover with middle relief arms. For a team that is at its luxury tax limit almost, I'm sure they could find an arm who could replace Garcia at 1/3 or 1/4 the cost.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

Going to the bullpen early in Game 2 last Wildcard series cost the Jays. I'm sure they could have squeezed another inning out of Gausman, their so called ace. Their bullpen couldn't even close out an 8-1 game in the Postseason, I can't wait to see them try to close out a 2-1 or 3-1 game from the 6th on.

 

lol... Wow!

[Terminator]

lol... Wow!

 

Wow indeed! Someone has some 'splainin to do.

[BigCecil]

Anyone still think Pearson can have a future as a SP? Just seems to me his command is just so bad on all his pitches it doesn’t seem realistic. He can get away with it sometimes as a RP. He just doesn’t miss barrels enough or get enough whiffs. Kind of reminds me of Merryweather last year. Gulp.

[John_Havok]

Anyone still think Pearson can have a future as a SP? Just seems to me his command is just so bad on all his pitches it doesn’t seem realistic. He can get away with it sometimes as a RP. He just doesn’t miss barrels enough or get enough whiffs. Kind of reminds me of Merryweather last year. Gulp.

 

There's a very tiny chance, but I'd rather just see him air it out in the pen and focus on either the curve or slider.

[Omar]

Anyone still think Pearson can have a future as a SP? Just seems to me his command is just so bad on all his pitches it doesn’t seem realistic. He can get away with it sometimes as a RP. He just doesn’t miss barrels enough or get enough whiffs. Kind of reminds me of Merryweather last year. Gulp.

 

He turns 27 this year so the clock is ticking. I'm sure he would rather be a SP, just for the potential payday, but if the org doesn't want to go down that path he seems to be destined for a RP role. Seems like forever ago that he was lighting them up in Vancouver and everyone thought he would be the next big thing. Life happens.

[Daniel Labude]

Anyone still think Pearson can have a future as a SP? Just seems to me his command is just so bad on all his pitches it doesn’t seem realistic. He can get away with it sometimes as a RP. He just doesn’t miss barrels enough or get enough whiffs. Kind of reminds me of Merryweather last year. Gulp.

 

Yes I believe he can. Probably not as a Jay though....TB, CLE, MIA could get him going as a SP I think

[Terminator]

Anyone still think Pearson can have a future as a SP? Just seems to me his command is just so bad on all his pitches it doesn’t seem realistic. He can get away with it sometimes as a RP. He just doesn’t miss barrels enough or get enough whiffs. Kind of reminds me of Merryweather last year. Gulp.

 

Idk but since he's not a slam dunk to be a late inning reliever either is it crazy to think that it might be worth a try?

 

Would need to game it out more properly than this to make the proper decision but if he's got a 10% chance to be a 3 to 4 WAR SP, a 20% chance to be a 2 to 3 WAR SP and a 50% chance to flame out entirely is it worth trying if he's got a 10% chance to be a good closer, a 40 percent chance to be a good setup man and a 50% chance to simply be a middle reliever?

Edited July 25, 2023 by Terminator

[John_Havok]

Idk but since he's not a slam dunk to be a late inning reliever either is it crazy to think that it might be worth a try?

 

Would need to game it out more properly than this to make the proper decision but if he's got a 10% chance to be a 3 to 4 WAR SP, a 20% chance to be a 2 to 3 WAR SP and a 50% chance to flame out entirely is it worth trying if he's got a 10% chance to be a good closer, a 40 percent chance to be a good setup man and a 50% chance to simply be a middle reliever?

 

I think youre %s on the 3-4 WAR and even 2-3 WAR SP are high. It's probably closer to 1% and 5%

[WryNGinger]

There's talk now Ryu wont be activated until after the deadline, though could still start against the Angels.

 

 

Right now things are lined up to see Gausman vs Ohtani. Yes please.

 

That would be one of the best match-ups of the season. If not Gasman it will be Manoah I assume?