General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Spanky99]

 

Scott Mitchell

@ScottyMitchTSN

 

Talked to a couple people who had eyes on Alek Manoah’s Florida Complex League outing today and there’s not much positive to report that would say ignore the ugly line. Wasn’t great.

We may still be at ground zero.

 

Yeah, we won't be seeing this guy back this year, I find it highly unlikely, he's got a tough road ahead.

[Brownie19]

Right, terrible take by Brownie.

 

Huh? It was just a f***ing joke...one which Krylian made a further (good) joke about. Maybe we should have sent Manoah to Jenny Craig instead of our new high tech training facility. That's another joke in case you're unsure.

[Spanky99]

I never understood why players change ANYTHING about what they’re doing if the results are good, especially pitchers. Like how Strasburg hurt his back lifting weights. Like bro??? Just maintain Your current body if its working. CC Sabathia tried losing weight and it made him pitch worse. You gotta keep what’s working.

 

Dude, CC got progressively worse as he packed the pounds on, he was in half decent shape when he started out.

[Spanky99]

Huh? It was just a f***ing joke...one which Krylian made a further (good) joke about. Maybe we should have sent Manoah to Jenny Craig instead of our new high tech training facility. That's another joke in case you're unsure.

 

Relax dude, you've complained about the lab repeatedly on here, if it was a genuine joke I missed it, big f***ing deal. You're so high strung lately man, chill.

[Spanky99]

Losing the first game of the Wild Card Series f***ed him up way more than we thought

 

Mentally for sure, hasn't been right since.

[John_Havok]

Dude, CC got progressively worse as he packed the pounds on, he was in half decent shape when he started out.

 

True, but Bartolo could probably still pitch today and he's like 50 years old, weighs 300+ and isnt even 6 feet tall.

 

I think the general rule that being in shape is probably better than not being in shape(duh.. ), but at the same time we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that all of his problems are 100% related to the weight.

[glory]

Do the Jays trade for a SP or hope that Ryu comes back? From the looks of it they'd rather take a bullet to the chest than start Francis, so their options are kind of limited beyond that if Manoah is done for the year.

[Spanky99]

Great. so that must be THE one and only problem. Can't be anything else, just the one visible flaw that it's easy to poke fun about.

 

Im not claiming to be an expert either, I'm just saying you're intellectually lazy and nowhere near as edgy and cool as you think you are, and if you were in a room with Manoah you wouldnt say stit to his face about it either, so youre also probably a hypocrit douchebag with no spine.

 

Psychologically spekaing of course.

 

Hahahaha... love it.

[Ehjays]

 

LOL Belt has some classic quotes

[Jonn]

 

LOL Belt has some classic quotes

 

Really hard not to like Brandon Belt.

[connorp]

WTF is this... connorp being the voice of reason?

 

Yeah, well I don’t think they’d be worried about Manoahs confidence to try things. I think he could have like 5 bad starts in a row down there and it probably wouldn’t change his opinion of himself. Not an admirable trait but not always a bad thing

[Spanky99]

True, but Bartolo could probably still pitch today and he's like 50 years old, weighs 300+ and isnt even 6 feet tall.

 

I think the general rule that being in shape is probably better than not being in shape(duh.. ), but at the same time we shouldn't just jump to the conclusion that all of his problems are 100% related to the weight.

 

I have zero clue what the issue is, I'm not fat shaming the guy, it has to be some sort of correlation between mechanics, fitness and confidence/mentality. I'm sure they'll figure it out, but it isn't going to be a quick fix.

[John_Havok]

Dude, CC got progressively worse as he packed the pounds on, he was in half decent shape when he started out.

 

Just checked his draft weight... 6'7' 250 pounds. Though he really didnt start declining until age 32. All the years from 2001-2012 were pretty outstanding, even as he gained weight. At that point he was listed at 300 and then had the knee surgery in 2013. But didn't even truly suck until after that.

 

So, while he didnt get worse while gaining the weight, there's probably some sound logic to the fact that had he not been so heavy, his knee would have held up better, maybe not requiring surgery. Also, depsite losing a bunch of weight after the surgery to try and aid in recovery and put less pressure on that knee, he was still just a really big dude. So he didnt really get worse from the weight gain, until his knee gave out.

[jaysblue]

Steve Phillips said he gained weight but he thinks he lifted more weights and gained more muscle mass in his upper body this past offseason. This tightened his arm action and lead to a decline in his stuff. No idea if he knows what he's talking about but it does make some sense.

 

Weight training can be an issue sometimes. It's not as great as its made out to be when it comes to athletes. Lifting weights tightens muscles more. IMO stretching is more important than weight training.

[Brownie19]

Relax dude, you've complained about the lab repeatedly on here, if it was a genuine joke I missed it, big f***ing deal. You're so high strung lately man, chill.

 

The lab post was my first in 6 days. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

People can suggest that we don't know what this process is and that perhaps he was out there working on a particular pitch or location or something, but there's little doubt in my mind that everyone involved in this situation is petrified with the results today. This isn't a star pitcher who's coming off an injury an needs to face some batters to build up arm strength/stamina before returning to the majors. This was someone who was completely lost and was sent to a training facility to work with the Jays experts to figure out what the f*** is wrong with him.

 

It seems highly unlikely they decided to put him back on the mound in a situation where they didn't think he'd have success and build confidence. That seems like a terrible thing to do to a pitcher who was completely shell-shocked at the MLB level. Obviously I have no evidence, but I think today was a complete and utter failure of epic proportions. One that certainly sets Manoah back - likely for the rest of the year. I guess we'll see - hopefully I'm wrong.

[jaysblue]

 

Scott Mitchell

@ScottyMitchTSN

 

Talked to a couple people who had eyes on Alek Manoah’s Florida Complex League outing today and there’s not much positive to report that would say ignore the ugly line. Wasn’t great.

We may still be at ground zero.

 

It's also a shame the Jays kept running him out there for as long as they did.

[BlueBaller]

Yup, winded after the first pitch of every game. Makes complete sense. Not a single flaw in that theory. Rock solid.

He's winded within a few pitches, yes.

[John_Havok]

where the f*** is pendleton with the GDT...

[Terminator]

 

Call me crazy but is there any chance at all that the Jays kick the tires on Ohtani if it's in the 500-550 million dollar range?

 

I think Rogers would at least have to consider it. Might be the best baseball player since Babe Ruth and he seems like a huge draw. They've probably got some TV execs crunching numbers.

[Spanky99]

The lab post was my first in 6 days. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

People can suggest that we don't know what this process is and that perhaps he was out there working on a particular pitch or location or something, but there's little doubt in my mind that everyone involved in this situation is petrified with the results today. This isn't a star pitcher who's coming off an injury an needs to face some batters to build up arm strength/stamina before returning to the majors. This was someone who was completely lost and was sent to a training facility to work with the Jays experts to figure out what the f*** is wrong with him.

 

It seems highly unlikely they decided to put him back on the mound in a situation where they didn't think he'd have success and build confidence. That seems like a terrible thing to do to a pitcher who was completely shell-shocked at the MLB level. Obviously I have no evidence, but I think today was a complete and utter failure of epic proportions. One that certainly sets Manoah back - likely for the rest of the year. I guess we'll see - hopefully I'm wrong.

 

I agree, it's going to be a long process.

[Omar]

Yeah, well I don’t think they’d be worried about Manoahs confidence to try things. I think he could have like 5 bad starts in a row down there and it probably wouldn’t change his opinion of himself. Not an admirable trait but not always a bad thing

 

Manoah is on the verge of tears after every loss. His confidence is brittle.

[John_Havok]

 

Call me crazy but is there any chance at all that the Jays kick the tires on Ohtani if it's in the 500-550 million dollar range?

 

I think Rogers would at least have to consider it. Might be the best baseball player since Babe Ruth and he seems like a huge draw. They've probably got some TV execs crunching numbers.

 

It's too bad the Angels are in the WC race, the trade rumours on Ohtani this year would be incredible.

 

 

 

Lets just assume for 1 moment that he's on the block.... what would any team have to give up to get him??

 

Like, just hand over your top 3 prospects and at least ... 1 ML regular that's above average?

[Terminator]

It's too bad the Angels are in the WC race, the trade rumours on Ohtani this year would be incredible.

 

 

 

Lets just assume for 1 moment that he's on the block.... what would any team have to give up to get him??

 

Like, just hand over your top 3 prospects and at least ... 1 ML regular that's above average?

 

Yeah the price for just a half season of Ohtani alone would be insane. Could transform a fringe WC team into a contender as it nets you a playoff ace and elite bat all in one.

[Spanky99]

Manoah is on the verge of tears after every loss. His confidence is brittle.

 

That's what I was witnessing, but connor watches the games on gameday, so there's that.

[Spanky99]

where the f*** is pendleton with the GDT...

 

I put one up, Pendy stole Sunday's from me anyhow, so we're good.

[Stangstag]

Dude, CC got progressively worse as he packed the pounds on, he was in half decent shape when he started out.

 

He was f***ing massive with the Brewers in his best season. Towards the end of his career he tried to lose weight to help his injury/health issues and it had the opposite effect.

 

Now as a retiree, he’s in incredible shape. He chose to remain fat while he played.

[Stangstag]

It's too bad the Angels are in the WC race, the trade rumours on Ohtani this year would be incredible.

 

 

 

Lets just assume for 1 moment that he's on the block.... what would any team have to give up to get him??

 

Like, just hand over your top 3 prospects and at least ... 1 ML regular that's above average?

 

I keep saying this, no way Arte Moreno allows the team to trade Ohtani, even 15 games under .500

[Omar]

Really hard not to like Brandon Belt.

 

The guy is an Alpha. You can just tell.

[keggy]

 

Call me crazy but is there any chance at all that the Jays kick the tires on Ohtani if it's in the 500-550 million dollar range?

 

I think Rogers would at least have to consider it. Might be the best baseball player since Babe Ruth and he seems like a huge draw. They've probably got some TV execs crunching numbers.

 

Ohtani's value is underrated because his value is compressed into a single roster spot. He honestly might be more valuable than roided up Barry Bonds.

[BlueBaller]

They didn't have a pitch clock when CC played.