General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[MikeM3]

Yeah so maybe people should stop tonguing their butthole for collective seven Cole Irvins and moving the fences back 50 feet

 

They have 10 Cole Irvins

[Orgfiller]

They have 10 Cole Irvins

 

Which would be great if they also had at least 1 SP as good as any of the Jays’ top 4. Would even two of the Orioles pitchers make the Jays rotation?

[MikeM3]

Which would be great if they also had at least 1 SP as good as any of the Jays’ top 4. Would even two of the Orioles pitchers make the Jays rotation?

 

Our rotation has like a 20M AAV per position so of course not.

 

We have like the most unsustainable pitching model in the league.

[Laika]

Well, Grayson Rodriguez of course.

 

I do like Bradish.

[Captain_Obvious]

Atkins just said today he is still looking for they need more SP depth. I like Ross's attidude and Jim and I are just saying don't be complacent which posters are if they think we have enough depth.. Which many do...

 

That depth will not be anything more than AAAA pitchers. The Jays depth is fine. You cannot expect a sub 4 ERA in every spot.

[Orgfiller]

Our rotation has like a 20M AAV per position so of course not.

 

We have like the most unsustainable pitching model in the league.

 

Well then maybe they shouldn’t be so cheap if they want to do anything and not waste cheap years of their young talent. The Jays have money coming off the books following 2023 and clearly they have the pockets and are willing to spend. Also, is there really any sustainable pitching model? The Rays have a bunch of promising guys earning peanuts but literally more than half of them got injured anyway and their pitching ended up being mediocre anyway. The Dodgers have a pitching factory but they’ll pay to retain their own talent and will splurge every now and then to acquire a top pitcher.

 

Literally what is the point of getting Kyle Gibson and Cole Irving?

[WryNGinger]

Our rotation has like a 20M AAV per position so of course not.

 

We have like the most unsustainable pitching model in the league.

 

You're alright. You should comment in the main page section more often.

[max silver]

Our rotation has like a 20M AAV per position so of course not.

 

We have like the most unsustainable pitching model in the league.

 

Creating more home grown starters is a big key to the Jays future sustainability. If they want to have the available funds to extend both Vlad and Bo long term they can't have this type of money tied up in the rotation long term. Tiedemann at leaves gives the chance of another top of the rotation stud so at least that's a good start. On an unrelated pitching note I feel that the team is making massive strides in developing home grown bullpen relief, I think the current crop of relievers in the minor leagues will start graduating to the majors in 2023.

[Jayzfan79]

With Manny opting out end of the season, you think the Jays will be big players? And would he come north of the border? He will surely be getting a 10/375 or thereabouts.

[Spanky99]

The Jays are going to have to hope someone in the minors that is currently in the fringe category turns into a serviceable SP option. Thompson, Francis, Hatch, etc. Out of that group Thompson might be the most likely given what he did in 2021. The depth might look a little better in the middle of the season with Tiedemann, Zulueta, Robberse, etc, getting closer to the big leagues but with SP prospects there is just too much risk to count on anything (injury, performance, etc).

 

Bowden Francis had a very nice 2nd half last year after s***ing the bed early on. I feel he's found something and can be serviceable. Here's to hoping that trend continues.

[Spanky99]

I thought it was just me, but he’s expanding his target list

He definitely has some kind of phobia of guys later on claiming they were right

 

Imagine we did this everytime you were wrong. We could have a dedicated thread just for you, dumbass.

[Spanky99]

blah blah blah

 

Is he wrong, Jim? I don't believe so.

[Stangstag]

Imagine we did this everytime you were wrong. We could have a dedicated thread just for you, dumbass.

 

False, Connor has a very strong sense of right and wrong

[Spanky99]

False, Connor has a very strong sense of right and wrong

 

Hah!

[Jimcanuck]

With Manny opting out end of the season, you think the Jays will be big players? And would he come north of the border? He will surely be getting a 10/375 or thereabouts.

 

Doubtful. Depends on the likelihood, in the FO estimation, of signing Vlad/Bo/Manoah long term. If they see it as unlikely, then maybe.

 

I think Manny goes where the money is.

[MikeM3]

Well then maybe they shouldn’t be so cheap if they want to do anything and not waste cheap years of their young talent. The Jays have money coming off the books following 2023 and clearly they have the pockets and are willing to spend. Also, is there really any sustainable pitching model? The Rays have a bunch of promising guys earning peanuts but literally more than half of them got injured anyway and their pitching ended up being mediocre anyway. The Dodgers have a pitching factory but they’ll pay to retain their own talent and will splurge every now and then to acquire a top pitcher.

 

Literally what is the point of getting Kyle Gibson and Cole Irving?

 

Irvin I understand because pulled flyballs from RHB are auto outs in that park but Gibson seems like a pet project since they had money to spend.

[TheHurl]

With Manny opting out end of the season, you think the Jays will be big players? And would he come north of the border? He will surely be getting a 10/375 or thereabouts.

 

No and no.

[Terminator]

Kyle Gibson is the Orioles opening day starter lmao

 

They suck and will be battling it out with the Red Sox for 4th place

[Carlos Danger]

The O’s had one of the best records for a period in the 2nd half. The two run of the mill SPs they got was to bridge the gap and allow them to be competitive in the in- term. Bradish put it together end of year and will be a stud. Means will be back later, Hall is good and just needs some time. The O’s always have a good pen. Rodriguez should push guys back.

 

Fangraphs have us finishing third in the division. We need to make sure the O’s don’t catch us

[glory]

Our rotation has like a 20M AAV per position so of course not.

 

We have like the most unsustainable pitching model in the league.

 

That model works for the Jays because their core position player pieces are all "cheap", relatively speaking (Vlad, Bo, Kirk, Jansen, now Varsho, previously Teoscar/Gurriel, etc). It's probably a model that is not going to work the closer we get to 2025-26, depending on what happens with Vlad/Bo long term, but it was the right direction to take with the rotation for 2020-25. The alternative would have been doing what the O's are doing now, which is seeing year 1 of Adley's service time already disappear but having no urgency to build a contending rotation around him and Gunnar. They'd rather wait for internal options to start filtering up, and maybe that works eventually, but how long will it take if it does work?

 

Young position players + veteran rotation always seemed like the best direction to go in. It mitigates a lot of injury risk that comes with depending on young pitchers, and potentially expedites the ability to contend. The fact that they were able to get a legit ace with one of those FA contracts (Gausman) was a godsend. Hopefully in the next few years we see more internal development with SPs.

[Spanky99]

The O’s had one of the best records for a period in the 2nd half. The two run of the mill SPs they got was to bridge the gap and allow them to be competitive in the in- term. Bradish put it together end of year and will be a stud. Means will be back later, Hall is good and just needs some time. The O’s always have a good pen. Rodriguez should push guys back.

 

Fangraphs have us finishing third in the division. We need to make sure the O’s don’t catch us

 

The Orioles suxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Terminator]

The O’s had one of the best records for a period in the 2nd half. The two run of the mill SPs they got was to bridge the gap and allow them to be competitive in the in- term. Bradish put it together end of year and will be a stud. Means will be back later, Hall is good and just needs some time. The O’s always have a good pen. Rodriguez should push guys back.

 

Fangraphs have us finishing third in the division. We need to make sure the O’s don’t catch us

 

Well, that's one way to characterize Fangraphs projections. Not sure I read them the same way.

 

Yanks - 91 Wins

Jays- 88

Rays- 88

Red Sox- 83

Orioles- 78

 

I don't think Kyle Gibson and Cole Irvin are going to keep them as competitive as you think. The 78 wins is basically the exact same team they were last year, they just got lucky on their Pythagorean record. Since they didn't make any adds of any significance it makes sense that they are the same team again this year.

[Spanky99]

Well, that's one way to characterize Fangraphs projections. Not sure I read them the same way.

 

Yanks - 91 Wins

Jays- 88

Rays- 88

Red Sox- 83

Orioles- 78

 

I don't think Kyle Gibson and Cole Irvin are going to keep them as competitive as you think. The 78 wins is basically the exact same team they were last year, they just got lucky on their Pythagorean record. Since they didn't make any adds of any significance it makes sense that they are the same team again this year.

 

First thing I checked, lol.

[Carlos Danger]

Well, that's one way to characterize Fangraphs projections. Not sure I read them the same way.

 

Yanks - 91 Wins

Jays- 88

Rays- 88

Red Sox- 83

Orioles- 78

 

I don't think Kyle Gibson and Cole Irvin are going to keep them as competitive as you think. The 78 wins is basically the exact same team they were last year, they just got lucky on their Pythagorean record. Since they didn't make any adds of any significance it makes sense that they are the same team again this year.

 

Right here boys

 

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/blue-jays-fangraphs-playoff-odds-are-out-and-jays-fans-wont-be-happy

 

Unfortunately, the projections don't think the Jays had as good an offseason as many fans and analysts seem to believe.

 

Don't look now, but FanGraphs has the Jays finishing third in the division, with an 86.7-75.3 record and .535 winning percentage. However, they're just behind the Tampa Bay Rays' .537 percentage.

[Carlos Danger]

Well, that's one way to characterize Fangraphs projections. Not sure I read them the same way.

 

Yanks - 91 Wins

Jays- 88

Rays- 88

Red Sox- 83

Orioles- 78

 

I don't think Kyle Gibson and Cole Irvin are going to keep them as competitive as you think. The 78 wins is basically the exact same team they were last year, they just got lucky on their Pythagorean record. Since they didn't make any adds of any significance it makes sense that they are the same team again this year.

 

A full season of Rutschman, Henderson, Stowers, Bradish, Rodriguez, Hall, plus their core. A half a season of Means and anyone of their other young studs they bring up... Not going to be the same O's as the majority of last year.

[Terminator]

Right here boys

 

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/blue-jays-fangraphs-playoff-odds-are-out-and-jays-fans-wont-be-happy

 

Unfortunately, the projections don't think the Jays had as good an offseason as many fans and analysts seem to believe.

 

Don't look now, but FanGraphs has the Jays finishing third in the division, with an 86.7-75.3 record and .535 winning percentage. However, they're just behind the Tampa Bay Rays' .537 percentage.

 

Ok we can use that one but it has the Orioles finishing even worse with 75.7 wins. They're not a very scary team and they won't be until ownership shows that they are willing to spend money (and I doubt they ever do).

[Laika]

That doesn't make sense. Fangraphs' own depth charts have the Jays as 3.7 wins better than the Rays

[BCZ]

Who was saying Guerrero looks fat? He's just formidably hefty...

[Orgfiller]

A full season of Rutschman, Henderson, Stowers, Bradish, Rodriguez, Hall, plus their core. A half a season of Means and anyone of their other young studs they bring up... Not going to be the same O's as the majority of last year.

 

Imagine mentioning a full season from Kyle Stowers who projects for 0.5 WAR and Kyle Bradish who projects for 1.1 WAR as the reason the Orioles will be a better team this year lmao. That’s like saying wait until we get a full season of Mitch White and Otto Lopez to really make us scary. DL Hall is projected to be a reliever across the board, between his injury history and wildness.

[Terminator]

We all basically hate Kikuchi and wish we had a better #5 but if he were on the Orioles he would be battling it out with Kyle Gibson to start on opening day. That's the team I'm supposed to worry about.