General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Jimcanuck]

Dang I hope Kikuchi's got it. White had surgery and won't be ready. We're really short on 5th starter.

 

Been beating the SP depth drum for months. There's got to be some moves yet to come. They should start with Neidert to a minor league deal.

[The_DH]

anyone heard anything about Pearson? I watched some of the videos and for the few pitches he threw it looked okay, hitting the catcher glove cleanly. I also watched Kikuchi and paid more attention to where the catcher was setting up. He seemed to have to work a little harder.

[Laika]

Dang I hope Kikuchi's got it. White had surgery and won't be ready. We're really short on 5th starter.

 

I don't see the s word anywhere. Article says White had a shoulder impingement in Jan and Atkins is “exceptionally confident that he is going to be in the mix.”

[Laika]

anyone heard anything about Pearson? I watched some of the videos and for the few pitches he threw it looked okay, hitting the catcher glove cleanly. I also watched Kikuchi and paid more attention to where the catcher was setting up. He seemed to have to work a little harder.

 

He's in camp and throwing. I think they are just hoping he can stay healthy and be a reliever this year.

[The_DH]

I don't see the s word anywhere. Article says White had a shoulder impingement in Jan and Atkins is “exceptionally confident that he is going to be in the mix.”

 

I know an impingement is not the biggest deal but it qualifies as surgery with much easier recovery.

[Laika]

I know an impingement is not the biggest deal but it qualifies as surgery with much easier recovery.

 

It's normally not treated with surgery. Just rest and an exercise/throwing program.

[The_DH]

I had the surgery on my wrist. The impingement was considered surgery but was just a local.

[Carlos Danger]

Been beating the SP depth drum for months. There's got to be some moves yet to come. They should start with Neidert to a minor league deal.

 

I think we missed out long term on signing Cody Poteet to a minor league IL deal like KC did. That is a no cost, high upside depth move.

 

I suspect the drum is not the only thing you are beating Jim;)

 

I have been shouting both SP and BP depth from the rooftops since prior to last season, I agree.

 

We have 4 solid SPs and one is a crap shoot. An injury to one of those 4 and we are down to 3.

 

We need more, "key word" solid SP depth and I would like another high leverage guy in the pen.

[Laika]

ffs this is a tiresome point of discussion

 

you don't just go out and sign "solid SP depth"

 

you can try, but the more solid someone is = less likely they want to sign to a non-guaranteed or minor league role

 

and good luck trading for it, because everybody and their grandma hoards optionable starters with talent

 

the only way to get it is to develop it

 

go find a team you think has good "SP depth" and I will guarantee that almost everyone on the minor league side of the depth chart was drafted or signed as an amateur by that organization, or traded for as a mid or low minors prospect

 

Toronto landing Zach Thompson this offseason, with 3 options, was a small miracle IMO

[Laika]

"oh I don't like the SP depth"

 

well then make a f***ing time machine buddy. go back to 2015 or whatever and convince the Blue Jays to draft more and better arms and not trade any away.

[Dick_Pole]

Drew Hutchison will be the #5 starter. And he will go 13-5 with a 6 ERA again. And people will complain that he is hot garbage. And I will be chiming in saying who cares because that implies the Jays won 13 of the 18 games from their #5 starter with his no-decision starts being toss ups. It will be glorious.

[Terminator]

I agree with everyone saying the SP depth is a problem, I've said the same thing.

 

But I also agree with Laika and have said that Atkins likely knows it's an issue but it's also an issue for every other team in the league outside of maybe a couple so there isn't a ton that can be done about it now. I think Hurl is the one who said that if one of the big 4 gets hurt we'll just make a trade at that point and I agree.

 

Just going to have to accept it for now. So pucker up and pray Kikuchi is a serviceable #5 this year.

[glory]

The Jays are going to have to hope someone in the minors that is currently in the fringe category turns into a serviceable SP option. Thompson, Francis, Hatch, etc. Out of that group Thompson might be the most likely given what he did in 2021. The depth might look a little better in the middle of the season with Tiedemann, Zulueta, Robberse, etc, getting closer to the big leagues but with SP prospects there is just too much risk to count on anything (injury, performance, etc).

[Brownie19]

We have 4 solid SPs and one is a crap shoot. An injury to one of those 4 and we are down to 3.

 

We need more, "key word" solid SP depth and I would like another high leverage guy in the pen.

 

Really insightful stuff here in the bold. I'm pretty sure that's true for every team in baseball. Not only in MLB, but all of the minors and every team on earth. If you have 4 and 1 gets hurt, you are down to 3. But how many major league teams can say the first part about having 4 solid SPs? Not many.

 

Every team in baseball would like more solid SP depth and another high leverage guy in the pen. If feels like you're pointing out the obvious, just so if this year goes up in flames due to pitching - you can tell us all how you told us so and then you'll win 7 glorious internet points.

[Captain_Obvious]

Really insightful stuff here in the bold. I'm pretty sure that's true for every team in baseball. Not only in MLB, but all of the minors and every team on earth. If you have 4 and 1 gets hurt, you are down to 3. But how many major league teams can say the first part about having 4 solid SPs? Not many.

 

Every team in baseball would like more solid SP depth and another high leverage guy in the pen. If feels like you're pointing out the obvious, just so if this year goes up in flames due to pitching - you can tell us all how you told us so and then you'll win 7 glorious internet points.

 

Wait. You mean we can't have 8 $20M per year starters with 3 of them being in Buffalo? Fire Atkins!

[Terminator]

The Jays are going to have to hope someone in the minors that is currently in the fringe category turns into a serviceable SP option. Thompson, Francis, Hatch, etc. Out of that group Thompson might be the most likely given what he did in 2021. The depth might look a little better in the middle of the season with Tiedemann, Zulueta, Robberse, etc, getting closer to the big leagues but with SP prospects there is just too much risk to count on anything (injury, performance, etc).

 

Don't forget Nate Pearson (lol) and Mitch White.

 

I agree on the 2nd half and add Ryu to the list too.

[Terminator]

Really insightful stuff here in the bold. I'm pretty sure that's true for every team in baseball. Not only in MLB, but all of the minors and every team on earth. If you have 4 and 1 gets hurt, you are down to 3. But how many major league teams can say the first part about having 4 solid SPs? Not many.

 

Every team in baseball would like more solid SP depth and another high leverage guy in the pen. If feels like you're pointing out the obvious, just so if this year goes up in flames due to pitching - you can tell us all how you told us so and then you'll win 7 glorious internet points.

 

Are you mad? lol

[Carlos Danger]

Really insightful stuff here in the bold. I'm pretty sure that's true for every team in baseball. Not only in MLB, but all of the minors and every team on earth. If you have 4 and 1 gets hurt, you are down to 3. But how many major league teams can say the first part about having 4 solid SPs? Not many.

 

Every team in baseball would like more solid SP depth and another high leverage guy in the pen. If feels like you're pointing out the obvious, just so if this year goes up in flames due to pitching - you can tell us all how you told us so and then you'll win 7 glorious internet points.

 

This is your tired and over used reply everytime we talk about this. It is becoming really obtuse. We are trying to win the WS coming out of the AL east not compare ourselfs to the lowest denominator.

 

I should fire myself and then shoot myself if I am a GM and say welll such and such sucks so it is ok if I suck.

 

The Rays have 5 very solid SPs to start the season. Baltimore has the whole damn calvary coming. Domingo German is Yankees 5th guy now.. Not even going to get into Houston, the Dodgers, Indians etc.

 

We need to be able to say if we lose one or two, which we will, we still have 4-5 solid guys. We are still not in that position.

 

I love a lot of things we did this off season. I like the addition we made to our rotation, and the pen. I like guys like Thompson as SP depth.

 

We are still walking too much of a tight rope as far as I am concerned. I am not willing to settle for nor should you, just getting by and getting a WC.. That is no gaurantee either.... We need to do more and stop trying to shame people year after year for not accepting the status quoe.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Carlos Danger

[Carlos Danger]

Wait. You mean we can't have 8 $20M per year starters with 3 of them being in Buffalo? Fire Atkins!

 

Atkins just said today he is still looking for they need more SP depth. I like Ross's attidude and Jim and I are just saying don't be complacent which posters are if they think we have enough depth.. Which many do...

[Orgfiller]

This is your tired and over used reply everytime we talk about this. It is becoming really obtuse. We are trying to win the WS coming out of the AL east not compare ourselfs to the lowest denominator.

 

I should fire myself and then shoot myself if I am a GM and say welll such and such sucks so it is ok if I suck.

 

The Rays have 5 very solid SPs to start the season. Baltimore has the whole damn calvary coming. Domingo German is Yankees 5th guy now.. Not even going to get into Houston, the Dodgers, Indians etc.

 

We need to be able to say if we lose one or two, which we will, we still have 4-5 solid guys. We are still not in that position.

 

I love a lot of things we did this off season. I like the addition we made to our rotation, and the pen. I like guys like Thompson as SP depth.

 

We are still walking too much of a tight rope as far as I am concerned. I am not willing to settle for nor should you, just getting by and getting a WC.. That is no gaurantee either.... We need to do more and stop trying to shame people year after year for not accepting the status quoe.

 

The whole cavalry = Grayson Rodriguez? The Orioles have a great farm but that’s not due to their strong pitching depth past Rodriguez.

[Laika]

The whole cavalry = Grayson Rodriguez? The Orioles have a great farm but that’s not due to their strong pitching depth past Rodriguez.

 

yeah it's a funny example. per mr kiley mcdaniel:

 

Grayson Rodriguez, RHP, 60 FV

Cade Povich, LHP, 50 FV

D.L. Hall, LHP, 45+ FV

Seth Johnson, RHP, 45 FV

Drew Rom/LHP 40 FV

Mike Baumann/RHP 40 FV

Chayce McDermott/RHP 40 FV

Carter Baumler/RHP 40 FV

 

vs

 

Ricky Tiedemann, LHP, 55 FV

Brandon Barriera, LHP, 45+ FV

Hayden Juenger, RHP, 45+ FV

Yosver Zulueta, RHP, 45 FV

Adam Macko, LHP, 45 FV

Sem Robberse, RHP, 45 FV

Dahian Santos/RHP, 40 FV

Trent Palmer/RHP, 40 FV

C.J. Van Eyk/RHP, 40 FV

[connorp]

Are you mad? lol

 

I thought it was just me, but he’s expanding his target list

He definitely has some kind of phobia of guys later on claiming they were right

[MikeM3]

Orioles have Means, Wells, Hall, Voth and Watkins not even projected in their rotation..

[connorp]

I didn’t read CD’s remark as just limited to SP. He was kind of crossing lanes but I think he was just talking about the competition Jays are facing. He can clarify though

[Laika]

Orioles have Means, Wells, Hall, Voth and Watkins not even projected in their rotation..

 

Yeah behind four #5 SP and a rookie, haha.

 

I think they have the third lowest projected P WAR in baseball

[Laika]

It's fine to say the Jays don't have ideal SP depth but you have to acknowledge that pitching depth is fluid and the Jays have been consistently and constantly adding to it for the last couple years.

 

Just seems like a dumb thing to criticize at this point, in this context. They've added a lot and they've also intentionally put some horses up front, which should matter.

 

It's not a f***ing draft and hold league where the team you bring to camp is all you have all year long...

[Jimcanuck]

It's fine to say the Jays don't have ideal SP depth but you have to acknowledge that pitching depth is fluid and the Jays have been consistently and constantly adding to it for the last couple years.

 

Just seems like a dumb thing to criticize at this point, in this context. They've added a lot and they've also intentionally put some horses up front, which should matter.

 

It's not a f***ing draft and hold league where the team you bring to camp is all you have all year long...

 

blah blah blah

[MikeM3]

Yeah behind four #5 SP and a rookie, haha.

 

I think they have the third lowest projected P WAR in baseball

 

Well their payroll is a joke still.

[Laika]

Well their payroll is a joke still.

 

Yeah so maybe people should stop tonguing their butthole for collecting seven Cole Irvins and moving the fences back 50 feet

[Carlos Danger]

It's not a f***ing draft and hold league where the team you bring to camp is all you have all year long...

 

Who in their right mind would join some s*** like that!??