Around Baseball 2023

[BTS]

Not sure I see what all of you guys see with the Tigers. Position players are really just Greene and Torkelson, and they project for a combined 4-5 WAR. Maeda just replaces E-Rod, but Skubal, Maeda, Olson, Gipson-Long is pretty good. Lineup needs a lot of help though.

[Jimcanuck]

Not sure I see what all of you guys see with the Tigers. Position players are really just Greene and Torkelson, and they project for a combined 4-5 WAR. Maeda just replaces E-Rod, but Skubal, Maeda, Olson, Gipson-Long is pretty good. Lineup needs a lot of help though.

 

Not disagreeing. It's just the ALC sucks, and Tigers with Ohtani would be the division favourite, IMO.

[Ehjays]

Not sure I see what all of you guys see with the Tigers. Position players are really just Greene and Torkelson, and they project for a combined 4-5 WAR. Maeda just replaces E-Rod, but Skubal, Maeda, Olson, Gipson-Long is pretty good. Lineup needs a lot of help though.

 

I only spoke of the upside of the pitching. Skubal, Olson, Gipson-Long, Jobe, Mize, Madden, Flores to name a few.

[Ehjays]

[Laika]

Not sure I see what all of you guys see with the Tigers. Position players are really just Greene and Torkelson, and they project for a combined 4-5 WAR. Maeda just replaces E-Rod, but Skubal, Maeda, Olson, Gipson-Long is pretty good. Lineup needs a lot of help though.

 

Rotation is much better than in recent years but Olson and Gipson-Long are still ideally a team's #5 and #6 SP.

 

So Detroit needs two more arms to be serious.

 

I guess they still have Mize and Manning as wild card young guys... and Faedo? Jackson Jobe, Wilmer Flores.

 

Actually, nvm that's pretty good lol

[L54]

Jackson Jobe, Malloy, Jace Jung, Colt Keith

 

They have a nice crop coming up and have a decent foundation in the league’s worst division. There is a path to relevancy

[Brownie19]

Jackson Jobe, Malloy, Jace Jung, Colt Keith

 

They have a nice crop coming up and have a decent foundation in the league’s worst division. There is a path to relevancy

 

Much like the Jays with Vlad, the Tigers REALLY need Tork to develop into a Paul Goldschmidt type slugger.

[Laika]

Much like the Jays with Vlad, the Tigers REALLY need Tork to develop into a Paul Goldschmidt type slugger.

 

I think they'd settle for 2023 Torkelson + a few more singles

[Brownie19]

I think they'd settle for 2023 Torkelson + a few more singles

 

I mean if they are really going to take that next step as an organization. You can't take Tork 1st overall in the draft and be happy with a 110-120 wRC+, 2 WAR player. Jays are the same. Once in a lifetime talent Vlad needs to be a 150 wRC+, 4-6 WAR player for the Jays to be serious contenders.

[Laika]

I mean if they are really going to take that next step as an organization. You can't take Tork 1st overall in the draft and be happy with a 110-120 wRC+, 2 WAR player. Jays are the same. Once in a lifetime talent Vlad needs to be a 150 wRC+, 4-6 WAR player for the Jays to be serious contenders.

 

They aren't probably HAPPY with it but he's a pretty flawed hitter if being compared to elite 1B/DH types. Like, his K and BB rates and MaxEV are not juicy at all. So they can't hope for too much, it would be unrealistic.

[L54]

First base prospects suck, even if they’re supposed to be generational hitters

[wamco]

Cardinals 1-5 rotation now by age for the 2024 season.

 

 

Gray - 34

Lynn - 37

Mikolas - 35

Gibson - 36

Matz - 33

 

Matz is known as “the Kid”

[wamco]

First base prospects suck, even if they’re supposed to be generational hitters

 

Brett Wallace asks if you are talking about him

[BigCecil]

Brett Wallace asks if you are talking about him

 

Now there is a blast from the past. He of the tree trunk legs and mediocre career.

[max silver]

Now there is a blast from the past. He of the tree trunk legs and mediocre career.

 

I recall Keith Law said his hips were so big he had a hard time getting around on the baseball. Wasn't he affectionately known as Walrus on the predecessor to this board?

[wilko]

I recall Keith Law said his hips were so big he had a hard time getting around on the baseball. Wasn't he affectionately known as Walrus on the predecessor to this board?

 

I remember Sportsnet had a special feature showcasing the "future" of the Jays and Brett Wallace was on it. His mom was on there and she mentioned that when she gave birth to him they had to make it an emergency C-Section because he was too big.

[jaysblue]

The 30+ dudes all have pretty spotless health histories at the very least.

 

They have for sure, but Gausman already has 1500+ innings and Berrios has 1200+ innings under their belt. Bassitt only 937.1 so not bad for his age but still. We can't just assume the Jays rotation will be the exact same in 2024 and 2025. If someone regresses a bit, or if Berrios and Kikuchi revert back to their 2022 version, it's not looking as promising. If Manoah is kept around, hopefully he gets back in top form in case someone else has a drop-off.

[jaysblue]

I personally don't see a big concern with aging pitchers (neither in St. Louis or TO). Often by then, there's a lot less volatility and it doesn't seem like they are more injury prone (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the opposite). My gut says pitchers are aging better than position players these days.

 

Yeah I'm pretty confident in the Jays rotation moving forward, though its not foolproof. Injuries or some regression is possible with one or multiple of these guys. Can't assume that everything in 2023 will repeat itself in 2024 or 2025.

[Frenchsoup]

Losing chappy is going to hurt the overall defense quite a bit. Kiermier hurts 2.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I'm pretty confident in the Jays rotation moving forward, though its not foolproof. Injuries or some regression is possible with one or multiple of these guys. Can't assume that everything in 2023 will repeat itself in 2024 or 2025.

 

This is true for every team.

[max silver]

They have for sure, but Gausman already has 1500+ innings and Berrios has 1200+ innings under their belt. Bassitt only 937.1 so not bad for his age but still. We can't just assume the Jays rotation will be the exact same in 2024 and 2025. If someone regresses a bit, or if Berrios and Kikuchi revert back to their 2022 version, it's not looking as promising. If Manoah is kept around, hopefully he gets back in top form in case someone else has a drop-off.

 

I don't expect any massive drop-offs in performance, but then I wouldn't have expected Manoah to suddenly tank heading into 2023 or Berrios to struggle in 2022 so anything is possible.

[BTS]

Cards also got a team option for 2027 in the Gray deal. I have no idea why he felt the need to sign this now.

[jaysblue]

This is true for every team.

 

Yeah of course, thanks for supporting my point!

[jaysblue]

I don't expect any massive drop-offs in performance, but then I wouldn't have expected Manoah to suddenly tank heading into 2023 or Berrios to struggle in 2022 so anything is possible.

 

The one guy I could be worried about is Kikuchi next season. I think Berrios will be fine.

 

Anything is possible like you said though. I expected Manoah to regress a bit, but not at a Josh Towers level. Both Berrios and Kikuchi stepped up huge with Manoah tanking this season, so big props to them. Hope the rotation continues to be a strong point of this club!

[max silver]

The one guy I could be worried about is Kikuchi next season. I think Berrios will be fine.

 

Anything is possible like you said though. I expected Manoah to regress a bit, but not at a Josh Towers level. Both Berrios and Kikuchi stepped up huge with Manoah tanking this season, so big props to them. Hope the rotation continues to be a strong point of this club!

 

Kikuchi's Steamer and Zips projections each project him to take a bit of a step backwards but nothing too severe. I hope he trains at Driveline again this offseason as it helped him make a dramatic career turnaround after his first rough season with the Blue Jays. On that topic it would be amazing if Manoah were to train there as well as a few added ticks of velo would make likely be a huge difference maker for him.

[Terminator]

The one guy I could be worried about is Kikuchi next season. I think Berrios will be fine.

 

Anything is possible like you said though. I expected Manoah to regress a bit, but not at a Josh Towers level. Both Berrios and Kikuchi stepped up huge with Manoah tanking this season, so big props to them. Hope the rotation continues to be a strong point of this club!

 

Kikuchi is going to be playing the most inspired baseball of his life after we sign fellow countrymen Ohtani and Yomamatoo. Not worried about him at all.

[Ehjays]

[Dick_Pole]

Yes please Yankees. Empty out your farm for Soto to lock in a 78 win season

[jaysblue]

Yankees will be spending money this offseason after their extremely poor 2023 season. Any rational poster on here knew that. They throw money at problems and they have the luxury to do so. Yankees will be better in 2024. Does that mean the Yankees are going to be a top team in the AL and win the division? No, but they can be a borderline WC team with 88-90 wins with a couple of big moves this offseason. As well, if they sign a combo of some big name FA's or trade for some big name players, that takes away from the FA pool and trade market for other teams including the Jays, meaning there will be more competition and suitors for other FA's and trade candidates. Will have a domino effect.

[jaysblue]

Yes please Yankees. Empty out your farm for Soto to lock in a 78 win season

 

Yankees won 82 games with an awful team in 2023 and in one of the toughest divisions in baseball. They were only 5 games behind the Jays considering. If the Yankees make some big adds like Yamamoto and Soto + others, they make up that ground and likely are in the 88-90 win range.