Around Baseball 2023

[Spanky__99]

 

I was kind of hoping he'd clear and we re-sign him. Ah well.

[Ehjays]

[Eat My Shatkins]

 

Haha holy s*** balls

[Frenchsoup]

Penn Murphee was a real good sign by AA though. Got him for free. Could be high leverage.

[Spanky__99]

Haha holy s*** balls

 

That's no Tiedemann. lol... that offer's lighter than what I suggested.

 

I kid, I kid...

[Spanky__99]

Padres are high.

[Frenchsoup]

They got no cash bro lol

[Frenchsoup]

But Soto is quite valuable

[Frenchsoup]

like the padres can't afford Soto, that looks titanicly bad. I'd take Cronenworth even if hes not healthy right now.

[Frenchsoup]

Get Cronenworth, toss Biggio in Left Field

[Frenchsoup]

or some 3b

[Spanky__99]

But Soto is quite valuable

 

Not that valuable, lol.

[jaysblue]

That whole trade was honestly f***ing insane and people don't talk about it enough.

 

Lopez - yeah projections are for 1 WAR and he is a 1 WAR player but he is literally 3 years removed from a 6 WAR season and he's only going to make $4M

Soroka - was an ace in 2019 then we all know what happened. But was only going to make like $4M. Kind of dominated AAA in 2023...

Shuster - 2020 first rounder, I believe he was their #1 org prospect at some point recently

Shewmake - 2019 first rounder, weak numbers, bit of a Groshans thing

Gowens - good numbers, apparently has a good FB

 

all for Aaron Bummer.

 

It could blow up so bad for AA, in so many ways.

 

What is really insane about it?

 

From looking at this deal, you can wonder and ask why the Braves traded 5 players/ex-prospects for a reliever. At first glance, I asked that as well. Though I understand the Braves standpoint and reasoning. They cleared a lot of room on their 40-man roster which was their main goal. They saved some money on questionable players/pitchers that really had no place on their roster unless injuries cleared a path for them. It wasn't a secret to the other 29 teams in the league. We'll see who else the Braves add via free agency or trade this offseason before we cast final judgment on this deal as a whole.

 

Soroka hasn't been fully healthy since 2019 and was going to become more expensive. Braves had no room for him in the rotation with Strider, Fried, Elder, and Morton, especially they bring in another top FA arm. Lopez is unlikely to produce a 6 WAR season again haha but yeah I would have kept him around as middle infield insurance. Shuster is most likely a No. 4-5 starter if he pans out. The rest are ex-highly touted prospects who have really fallen in value.

 

Bummer will make $5.5 million in 2024, along with two club options one for $7.25 million in ’25 and one for $7.5 million in ’26. Braves have Bummer under control possibly for three seasons at a very reasonable salary considering what other free agent relievers have demanded on the open market. As well, the Braves fortify their bullpen by adding another real tough lefty to pair with Minter and Matzek. Bummer has a 66% ground ball rate since he debuted, which is second best in all of baseball.

 

Overall, Braves traded a bunch of spare parts who weren't going to have an impact on their roster in 2024 and who were going to become more expensive. Speaks volumes to how good the Braves 40-man roster is built overall.

[L54]

 

They can ask for whatever they want but reality is they’re not recouping the value they paid to get him

 

I don’t know what the price will be but it ain’t that. They are desperate to shed salary and he’s a rental. A 5 WAR player, it’s not like you’re trading for 25 year old Mike Trout

 

A major league rotation piece presumably

 

A good prospect

 

A 17 year old who isn’t even in North America

 

That would be the absolute most I would give

[Jimcanuck]

So the Padres want quantity over quality? Easier to sell to the casuals? C'mon Shatkins let's do it.

[Frenchsoup]

Not that valuable, lol.

He's probably worth the 33 million so I'd throw in 3 minor leaguers I didn't really like

[Spanky__99]

They can ask for whatever they want but reality is they’re not recouping the value they paid to get him

 

I don’t know what the price will be but it ain’t that. They are desperate to shed salary and he’s a rental. A 5 WAR player, it’s not like you’re trading for 25 year old Mike Trout

 

A major league rotation piece presumably

 

A good prospect

 

A 17 year old who isn’t even in North America

 

That would be the absolute most I would give

 

Agreed, that's why I brought up my offer earlier(Manoah, Rojas and Toman = fair value), that ask is off the rails, they can keep him if that's the price.

[L54]

Agreed, that's why I brought up my offer earlier(Manoah, Rojas and Toman = fair value), that ask is off the rails, they can keep him if that's the price.

 

Exactly it’s like the Jays and their three catchers…. You can just wait em out if they’re stubborn. Seems they’re desperate to get rid of him

[Stangstag]

What is really insane about it?

 

From looking at this deal, you can wonder and ask why the Braves traded 5 players/ex-prospects for a reliever. At first glance, I asked that as well. Though I understand the Braves standpoint and reasoning. They cleared a lot of room on their 40-man roster which was their main goal. They saved some money on questionable players/pitchers that really had no place on their roster unless injuries cleared a path for them. It wasn't a secret to the other 29 teams in the league. We'll see who else the Braves add via free agency or trade this offseason before we cast final judgment on this deal as a whole.

 

Soroka hasn't been fully healthy since 2019 and was going to become more expensive. Braves had no room for him in the rotation with Strider, Fried, Elder, and Morton, especially they bring in another top FA arm. Lopez is unlikely to produce a 6 WAR season again haha but yeah I would have kept him around as middle infield insurance. Shuster is most likely a No. 4-5 starter if he pans out. The rest are ex-highly touted prospects who have really fallen in value.

 

Bummer will make $5.5 million in 2024, along with two club options one for $7.25 million in ’25 and one for $7.5 million in ’26. Braves have Bummer under control possibly for three seasons at a very reasonable salary considering what other free agent relievers have demanded on the open market. As well, the Braves fortify their bullpen by adding another real tough lefty to pair with Minter and Matzek. Bummer has a 66% ground ball rate since he debuted, which is second best in all of baseball.

 

Overall, Braves traded a bunch of spare parts who weren't going to have an impact on their roster in 2024 and who were going to become more expensive. Speaks volumes to how good the Braves 40-man roster is built overall.

 

Get ur nose outta AA’s ass cheeks dude

[jaysblue]

Get ur nose outta AA’s ass cheeks dude

 

lol

 

I was pretty objective in my assessment of that trade unlike some of the Atkins shills on here when it comes to the Jays FO. Braves goal was to clear room off the roster. Other teams knew the Braves were either going to have to non-tender some guys or trade them. Instead of losing them all for nothing, AA was able to acquire a very solid LHP bullpen piece in Bummer, who is under club control for 3 more seasons at a very reasonable salary. I probably would have still kept Nicky Lopez around as a backup MI since he has shown he could be valuable in that roll and probably would have only cost $4-5M in 2024. If Soroka returns to his 2019 form, that's the deal breaker, but I think it's very unlikely given all the injuries he's had over the past 4 years. Time will tell. Braves aren't losing sleep over this trade with the depth they already have.

[L54]

Easy to say you would have kept Lopez but if you can see his value then I’m thinking the White Sox can too

[jaysblue]

Easy to say you would have kept Lopez but if you can see his value then I’m thinking the White Sox can too

 

So what's the point you're trying to make?

 

Braves still need a backup IF so yeah it wouldn't have been a bad idea to keep Lopez around in that role. Which is what I said. Offensively he's awful and offers literally no power. He isn't posting a 6 WAR season again even if he's a starting somewhere. In 2022, with 480 PA, he still only produced 1.2 WAR. He's wasn't going to start with the Braves unless an injury opened up some regular playing time for him.

[Laika]

It's just total asset mismanagement leading up to the roster crunch and trade

 

He could have dealt Shewmake alone one year ago for this much value. Or Soroka. Or Shuster.

[jaysblue]

It's just total asset mismanagement leading up to the roster crunch and trade

 

He could have dealt Shewmake alone one year ago for this much value. Or Soroka. Or Shuster.

 

How do you know that?

 

Soroka's value was probably unchanged from last year to this year. Maybe the Braves wanted to hang onto Soroka for one more season to see if he could make a full recovery rather than just give up on him a year earlier. He got some starts in 2023, didn't work and got injured again. So time to move on.

 

Shuster and Shewmake would have had to take up spots on the 40-man roster and likely weren't going to contribute anyways. Their values took a huge hit in comparison to when they were drafted.

[L54]

So what's the point you're trying to make?

 

Braves still need a backup IF so yeah it wouldn't have been a bad idea to keep Lopez around in that role. Which is what I said. Offensively he's awful and offers literally no power. He isn't posting a 6 WAR season again even if he's a starting somewhere. In 2022, with 480 PA, he still only produced 1.2 WAR. He's wasn't going to start with the Braves unless an injury opened up some regular playing time for him.

 

The point is how do you know the trade gets done without Nicky 6 WAR Lopez?

[Laika]

I don't know why this is hard for you to understand

 

AA rode 3/4 assets all the way to the point where they were worth nothing, and then had to dump them for nothing.

 

All of them were actual assets at some point in recent history, some as recently as pre 2023.

 

Just bad internal evaluations and bad asset management. Very clear.

[Spanky__99]

It's just total asset mismanagement leading up to the roster crunch and trade

 

He could have dealt Shewmake alone one year ago for this much value. Or Soroka. Or Shuster.

 

He's always been piss poor at the 40 man roster management, weird.

[jaysblue]

The point is how do you know the trade gets done without Nicky 6 WAR Lopez?

 

I mean none of us really know anything when it comes to any MLB trade and which players do and don't get a deal done, unless we're in the conference room when the talks are happening. Just was commenting and discussing the trade on a baseball forum like we all do.

 

I doubt Nicky Lopez produces a 6 WAR season again given his age and skillset. Too bad Atkins never traded for him.

[jaysblue]

I don't know why this is hard for you to understand

 

AA rode 3/4 assets all the way to the point where they were worth nothing, and then had to dump them for nothing.

 

All of them were actual assets at some point in recent history, some as recently as pre 2023.

 

Just bad internal evaluations and bad asset management. Very clear.

 

I guess the Braves are the only organization who ride assets to the point where they are worth nothing?

 

If Manoah doesn't rebound in 2024, can we say the same thing about Atkins if he non-tenders or trades away Manoah for pennies in 2025? Jays could trade Manoah now, but then you'll have people saying don't trade him when his value is this low. How is that any different with Soroka?

 

How about Nate Pearson? Julian Merryweather?

[L54]

^^Which is why people have suggested trading Manoah before he has zero value