Should the Jays bring back John Schneider as manager?

[John_Havok]

I’ve seen more than a few games this season in which we were getting our ass’s kicked and the camera would pan to the dugout and you would see the a couple guys in the barrio laughing and smiling like it was no big thing. Always the usual suspects. Intensity level zero. The only time they had some real emotion was when Vladdy had words with Pivetta from the dugout and the benches cleared against the Bosox. Yeah, we’re not in the clubhouse but you dont have to be to see the lackadaisical approach. Maybe it is a byproduct of young players groomed by bongo boy. Who knows but it has to change. If it doesn’t this team won’t win with the current personnel.

 

I love it when people think that smiling and laughing in the dugout means they don't care about losing.

[max silver]

Anyone who watches the Blue Jays knows who these players are. Teoscar Hernandez consistently makes mental mistakes in the field and often doesn't run the bases hard, for example. We've seen the same thing from Guerrero Jr at times. You don't have to 'blow up the team'. I never suggested that.

 

You guys think I'm talking about making smoothies in the dugout or something when that isn't it at all. Having fun isn't a problem in my view.

 

Players need to be locked in and giving a full effort on the field. This team is very, very bad at it and it doesn't seem to get addressed. A player like Josh Donaldson (not him) is needed to demand a full effort from his teammates. The leadership void left by Marcus Semien was never filled and it was extremely evident.

 

Vlad and Teoscar made exactly the same kind of mistakes in 2021 with Semien on the roster as they did in 2022. Any changes that occur with these players with regards to on-field decision making and effort is ultimately going to have to come from within.

[jaysblue]

I guess this thread can be closed now. Schneider signed for 3 more years.

 

Never doubt the word of Mo.

 

I understand removing the interim tag from him and bringing John Schneider back for next season, though after blowing Game 2 the way he did, giving him 3 years haha. Though the 3 years really mean nothing.

[L54]

I’ve seen more than a few games this season in which we were getting our ass’s kicked and the camera would pan to the dugout and you would see the a couple guys in the barrio laughing and smiling like it was no big thing. Always the usual suspects. Intensity level zero. The only time they had some real emotion was when Vladdy had words with Pivetta from the dugout and the benches cleared against the Bosox. Yeah, we’re not in the clubhouse but you dont have to be to see the lackadaisical approach. Maybe it is a byproduct of young players groomed by bongo boy. Who knows but it has to change. If it doesn’t this team won’t win with the current personnel.

 

I agree with you 100%

 

Unless you hate losing more than you love winning people won’t understand this critique

 

The 2022 Toronto Blue Jays did not appear to hate losing more than they loved winning

 

All season long it appeared as if there was never any urgency. Someone else will pick us up. It will all be fine.

[John_Havok]

I agree with you 100%

 

Unless you hate losing more than you love winning people won’t understand this critique

 

The 2022 Toronto Blue Jays did not appear to hate losing more than they loved winning

 

All season long it appeared as if there was never any urgency. Someone else will pick us up. It will all be fine.

 

Appearances can be deceiving. They seemed to hate losing 62% of the time under Schneider this season. They only hated losing about 50% of time under Montoyo this season. Seems that Schneider improved the "hating losing" skill by 24% instantly.

[L54]

Appearances can be deceiving. They seemed to hate losing 62% of the time under Schneider this season. They only hated losing about 50% of time under Montoyo this season. Seems that Schneider improved the "hating losing" skill by 24% instantly.

 

False equivalency. I think you understand that winning % cannot measure individual willingness to not lose.

 

Everyone likes to win. Not everybody hates to lose to the same degree. There were times this year where it was completely fair to question how much some of these guys hated to lose. I said it before but there was a serious lack of urgency most of the year. Schneider had alluded to this.

[John_Havok]

False equivalency. I think you understand that winning % cannot measure individual willingness to not lose.

 

Everyone likes to win. Not everybody hates to lose to the same degree. There were times this year where it was completely fair to question how much some of these guys hated to lose. I said it before but there was a serious lack of urgency most of the year. Schneider had alluded to this.

 

Yeah, and it seemed that as soon as he took over, they lost ... less. So... did his taking over not have any impact on the "hate losing" thing right away? Pure coincidence? If it's only certain invididuals that dont hate losing enough and their hatred of losing didnt change at all from when Schneider took over to when Bongos was in charge... why did the team's record (which is made up of individuals) suddenly get way better if those certain individuals still didnt hate losing enough?

 

It's your thesis, prove it.

[wilko]

Anyone who watches the Blue Jays knows who these players are. Teoscar Hernandez consistently makes mental mistakes in the field and often doesn't run the bases hard, for example. We've seen the same thing from Guerrero Jr at times. You don't have to 'blow up the team'. I never suggested that.

 

You guys think I'm talking about making smoothies in the dugout or something when that isn't it at all. Having fun isn't a problem in my view.

 

Players need to be locked in and giving a full effort on the field. This team is very, very bad at it and it doesn't seem to get addressed. A player like Josh Donaldson (not him) is needed to demand a full effort from his teammates. The leadership void left by Marcus Semien was never filled and it was extremely evident.

 

I don't think Semien was filling a huge leadership role other than for a couple IF guys. Chapman provides that same work ethic. I think the guys clowning around on the bench... not running out plays can come off as not caring. It does seem to be that same group of people near the end of the bench we're all talking about. In reality we have no idea what that culture is in there so this is all assumptions.

[John_Havok]

I don't think Semien was filling a huge leadership role other than for a couple IF guys. Chapman provides that same work ethic. I think the guys clowning around on the bench... not running out plays can come off as not caring. It does seem to be that same group of people near the end of the bench we're all talking about. In reality we have no idea what that culture is in there so this is all assumptions.

 

I dont even care abotu clowning around on the bench, but i do care about running out plays more often. There's certain times where yeah, hit a 100 mph grounder straight at the SS... yeah you know youre out, I'm pretty okay with a non 100% effort there.

 

But on any potential double play scenario or where the fielders are legit havnig to scramble to get the ball and will be throwing off balance... get your fat ass up the line as fast you can.

[L54]

Yeah, and it seemed that as soon as he took over, they lost ... less. So... did his taking over not have any impact on the "hate losing" thing right away? Pure coincidence? If it's only certain invididuals that dont hate losing enough and their hatred of losing didnt change at all from when Schneider took over to when Bongos was in charge... why did the team's record (which is made up of individuals) suddenly get way better if those certain individuals still didnt hate losing enough?

 

It's your thesis, prove it.

 

It’s not a thesis lmao it’s an observation

 

One that many others recognized as well

 

It’s more urgency than patience right now. The season’s getting short.

 

Look at the standings and understand that every game is important. Three hours out of your day needs to be completely focused on trying to win. That’s the goal moving forward.

 

It’s not just September. It’s every time, every day. How often do we say, ‘wow that guy really hustled!’ Well, that shouldn’t be the exception, that should be the norm. Unfortunately, it’s not the norm nowadays. You can’t just say, ‘Well, they’re young.’ No, they’re not young. They’re playing in their third and fourth years in the big leagues now. You have to step up. If you want to be a champion, you have to play like a champion.

 

You’re free to think that nothing was wrong with the compete level, but people with more knowledge of the situation than you disagree.

[Terminator]

81% of you agree that Game 2 was acceptable and should be rewarded with a new contract. Yikes.

[L54]

I think Schneider was always the long term plan. He was going to be given this opportunity. One game sample doesn’t change anything from the clubs point of view.

 

He knows Bo and Vlad better than anyone in the org. The two faces of the franchise. I’m completely fine with handing him the reigns.

[Terminator]

*John Schneider plays a starring role in the worst playoff meltdown in MLB in 100 years*

 

*Jays reward him with a 3 year contract*

 

BJMB: "Good extension"

[Omar]

81% of you agree that Game 2 was acceptable and should be rewarded with a new contract. Yikes.

 

 

Nah. It’s just that we are evaluating Schneider on the 75 (or whatever the number is) games he managed and not on the three innings against the Mariners in October where the wheels came off. Some bad decisions sure. But we’re keeping the baby and tossing the bath water.

[L54]

*John Schneider plays a starring role in the worst playoff meltdown in MLB in 100 years*

 

*Jays reward him with a 3 year contract*

 

BJMB: "Good extension"

 

Sample size - 1

 

Terminator - HIRE LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE

[John_Havok]

It’s not a thesis lmao it’s an observation

 

One that many others recognized as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’re free to think that nothing was wrong with the compete level, but people with more knowledge of the situation than you disagree.

 

You keep creating these things that I seem to think...

[L54]

You keep creating these things that I seem to think...

 

Well what are you arguing then lol

[Terminator]

Sample size - 1

 

Terminator - HIRE LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE

 

Literally anyone else can read splits lmao. Schneider can't.

 

Carlos Santana hits like an All-Star against lefties and couldn't get a hit against a girls high school softball pitcher if she threw right handed.

[Jimcanuck]

Literally anyone else can read splits lmao. Schneider can't.

 

Carlos Santana hits like an All-Star against lefties and couldn't get a hit against a girls high school softball pitcher if she threw right handed.

 

You're playing checkers, bro.

[Terminator]

You're playing checkers, bro.

 

Lol then what is John Schneider playing? It sure as hell ain't chess. Dude couldn't even put the right defensive replacement in either.

[wilko]

Literally anyone else can read splits lmao. Schneider can't.

 

Carlos Santana hits like an All-Star against lefties and couldn't get a hit against a girls high school softball pitcher if she threw right handed.

 

Taking out Gassman in the first place was a mistake and then you put Mayza in who mopes around on the mound not giving a f***.

[Terminator]

Holy s*** Bruce Bochy was available? And he came back to manage the sorry ass Texas Rangers of all teams? Lol you cannot tell me with a straight face that you'd rather have Schneider over him.

[gruber92]

Holy s*** Bruce Bochy was available? And he came back to manage the sorry ass Texas Rangers of all teams? Lol you cannot tell me with a straight face that you'd rather have Schneider over him.

 

Bochy won't be Shatkins' bitch, so he wasn't an option.

[keggy]

Bochy won't be Shatkins' bitch, so he wasn't an option.

 

Atkins: "Listen up Bruce. Raimel has some really promising batted ball metrics so you need to play him at least twice a week against righties. This is non-negotiable, am I understood?"

 

Bochy: *Blows cigarette smoke in his face*

[John_Havok]

Well what are you arguing then lol

 

My main argument is that this whole idea that "The 2022 Toronto Blue Jays did not appear to hate losing more than they loved winning." is ridiculous.

 

They won 92 games. That, in itself would seem to counter your hypothesis that they did not "appear to hate losing more than they loved winning." Now, are there instances where certain players could have hustled more? Yup. Doesn't mean they dont hate losing. Are there times where seeing players laugh on the becnh when the team is losing make is "appear" like they aren't taking things seriously? I guess, but the key word there is "appear" I told a joke at work today while everyone was working to ease the tension and get everyone to ligthen up. OMG !!! How dare I?! The fact that I wan't 100% dedicated to my tasks for 7.50 hours EXACTLY leaving zero room for anything that isnt super serious? f*** me... fire me now. I should be going home every night comepletely me ntally exhausted trying to figure out how I can be the perfect robot tomorrow. Otherwise i just dont hate not being pruductive enough.

 

You are making these connections and assumptions based on appearances. Yes, Schneider has stated publicly after a game that VLad needed to hustle better in that game situation. Excellent. Seems that Schneider has a pretty good handle on that then doesn't it? Equating EVERY single non 100% effort play or laughter in the dugout to not hating losing is just assumptions.

 

And ya know what happens when you make assumptions? You are an "ass" and the "ump" will "tion" you. Or something like that.

[L54]

My main argument is that this whole idea that "The 2022 Toronto Blue Jays did not appear to hate losing more than they loved winning." is ridiculous.

 

They won 92 games. That, in itself would seem to counter your hypothesis that they did not "appear to hate losing more than they loved winning." Now, are there instances where certain players could have hustled more? Yup. Doesn't mean they dont hate losing. Are there times where seeing players laugh on the becnh when the team is losing make is "appear" like they aren't taking things seriously? I guess, but the key word there is "appear" I told a joke at work today while everyone was working to ease the tension and get everyone to ligthen up. OMG !!! How dare I?! The fact that I wan't 100% dedicated to my tasks for 7.50 hours EXACTLY leaving zero room for anything that isnt super serious? f*** me... fire me now. I should be going home every night comepletely me ntally exhausted trying to figure out how I can be the perfect robot tomorrow. Otherwise i just dont hate not being pruductive enough.

 

You are making these connections and assumptions based on appearances. Yes, Schneider has stated publicly after a game that VLad needed to hustle better in that game situation. Excellent. Seems that Schneider has a pretty good handle on that then doesn't it? Equating EVERY single non 100% effort play or laughter in the dugout to not hating losing is just assumptions.

 

And ya know what happens when you make assumptions? You are an "ass" and the "ump" will "tion" you. Or something like that.

 

Ya I guess that’s where we differ. If I’m playing I’m not a fan of guys making jokes during the game to “lighten the mood” if we’re getting our s*** pushed in. But hey whatever works, the team definitely met expectations this year so who am I to argue otherwise?

[L54]

“This isn’t the try league, this is the get it done league”

 

- some guy who got it done

[Terminator]

Notice the cowards who didn't vote on this poll.

 

*Looking at you BTS and Laika*

[max silver]

“This isn’t the try league, this is the get it done league”

 

- some guy who got it done

 

That guy has zero world championships to his name, so surely that must mean that he simply isn't a winner.

[L54]

That guy has zero world championships to his name, so surely that must mean that he simply isn't a winner.

 

Jose Molina has two World Series rings

 

Put him in the HOF