The Blue Jays acquire Mitchell White

[Ehjays]

I liked Frasso as well and Im trusting our FO on this one. The part that worries me is Andrew Friedman is wanting Frasso over White.

[The Iceman]

Yep, it's horseshit.

 

Atkins should lose his job this offseason if we don't make a run.

 

If you're going to give up Frasso, you better give up more than that and get something significant to put us over the hump in the post-season. White, as many have mentioned, is Strip 2.0.

 

This return is a nothing burger and we lose a future Top 50-100 prospect, and potentially higher, if the results keep going. Frasso throws Upper 90s with great control and great secondaries, and, most importantly, misses a ton of bats.

 

White is a former top 70 prospect that is a major leaguer now. Team needs his arm for the stretch drive. Trust Atkins on this...

[Laika]

The only reason White seems like poo is that the Dodgers have never given him a real shot.

[THANOS]

But White is a better asset than Thor (impending FA) and Iglesias (expensive as hell) combined.

 

I explained my thoughts above, but, in short, I buy into the swing and miss of Iglesias continuing, and am selling the lack-there-of with White.

 

I saw a limby guy who didn't have consistent mechanics or amazing command but could throw a fastball up which minor leaguers couldn't touch

 

I don't think he's been tested but might be a bit of a one trick pony that won't live higher up, as a starter

 

Not sure if you remember but how many starts did you watch of his? I checked out 2 of his large strikeout performances. He looked in control and, mechanically, was mostly alright from what I saw.

[jaysblue]

I was watching one of the Dodgers games last week and was watching White pitch. He didn't look too bad and I did like his stuff.

 

Definitely think he'll make a solid No. 4 or 5 starter and has team control which is a nice thing. Again, he's nothing flashy but in 15 games, 10 starts, has pitched 56 innings with a 3.70 ERA and 4.23 xFIP with a 0.7 WAR. Syndergaard on the other hand in 15 starts has a 3.83 ERA, 4.27 xFIP and a 1.2 WAR. So given contract, stats and even team control, White is a much valuable asset IMO.

 

At least if a Jays starter goes down on the IL, White could hold his own in the rotation and give you a chance every 5th day.

[metafour]

I don’t really understand the rationale that this means the FO is down on Frasso. They had to give something good up to get this done.

 

Nobody said that they were "down" on Frasso, but the truth likely lies in the middle: they had to give up something to get something, but if they thought that Frasso was a star that they would regret trading then this move isn't one that they would make given everything they've shown.

 

You can also discern a lot by how they treat prospects. Tiedemann isn't even 20 yet and they've moved him up 3-levels this season to AA. Frasso is almost 24 and they still have him in High A. But yet there are people on here who think he'd be dominating AAA right now or making his MLB debut next season. If the Jays had that impression of him, he would have been pushed. They push their "top prospects" really aggressively, and in the case of Frasso, the guy is actually old for the level he is currently at.

[Jonn]

Are you suggesting that they should have moved Frasso from A ball to the MLB pen? I wanted to hang on to him too, but he definitely is not "exactly what the Jays need right now".

 

I wasn't suggesting that. But they could fast track him into the pen for next season. Or should have said could have. He's been starting all year on an innings limit obviously but hes been dominating when hes pitched.

[Laika]

I explained my thoughts above, but, in short, I buy into the swing and miss of Iglesias continuing, and am selling the lack-there-of with White.

 

 

 

Not sure if you remember but how many starts did you watch of his? I checked out 2 of his large strikeout performances. He looked in control and, mechanically, was mostly alright from what I saw.

 

Just a few innings

 

It was scattershot control but peppered at the top of the zone or above it

 

Good if you are profiling as a reliever but I don't know about the total package really

[Dagagad]

I liked Frasso as well and Im trusting our FO on this one. The part that worries me is Andrew Friedman is wanting Frasso over White.

 

There is prob a 40 man aspect to this. They want more pitchers that are farther away.

[Dagagad]

Nobody said that they were "down" on Frasso, but the truth likely lies in the middle: they had to give up something to get something, but if they thought that Frasso was a star that they would regret trading then this move isn't one that they would make given everything they've shown.

 

You can also discern a lot by how they treat prospects. Tiedemann isn't even 20 yet and they've moved him up 3-levels this season to AA. Frasso is almost 24 and they still have him in High A. But yet there are people on here who think he'd be dominating AAA right now or making his MLB debut next season. If the Jays had that impression of him, he would have been pushed. They push their "top prospects" really aggressively, and in the case of Frasso, the guy is actually old for the level he is currently at.

 

I agree with that. They probably don’t see him as a star or at least anything less than a very small percentage chance of that.

 

I will say for Frasso that he is, if my memory is correct, coming off TJ. Which explains why he is down so low.

[Benito]

Alex De Jesus sounds like a pretty nice prospect. If the Jays can help him reduce his strikeout rate, he might jump a prospect tier? plus arm, above avg power, and good walk rate with potential for avg hit tool? Sounds pretty good to me.

[Terminator]

Alex De Jesus sounds like a pretty nice prospect. If the Jays can help him reduce his strikeout rate, he might jump a prospect tier? plus arm, above avg power, and good walk rate with potential for avg hit tool? Sounds pretty good to me.

 

He's a fringe prospect but there is enough there to call him a prospect still.

[The Iceman]

The only reason White seems like poo is that the Dodgers have never given him a real shot.

 

And the reason he was traded was because he caused a stink when they sent him back down. At this point he is an improvement over the floor of what we had.

 

AND

 

The Jays had to make some moves or perception in the room would be they aren't trying to win this year.

Their MLB team is better today than it was yesterday and that is the priority.

[Laika]

And the reason he was traded was because he caused a stink when they sent him back down. At this point he is an improvement over the floor of what we had.

 

AND

 

The Jays had to make some moves or perception in the room would be they aren't trying to win this year.

Their MLB team is better today than it was yesterday and that is the priority.

 

I'd be mad too if I was him

 

He's too good to be an up and down player

[The Cats Ass]

I like that all the players the Jays got have atleast 1 more year of control. Some like White and Pop have multiple years.

[metafour]

He's a fringe prospect but there is enough there to call him a prospect still.

 

Here is what Ben Badler wrote. Sounds better than Groshans lol:

 

De Jesus was one of the bigger international signings for the Dodgers in 2018 when he landed a $500,000 bonus out of the Dominican Republic. This year, he hit .259/.398/.483 in 37 games for Low-A Rancho Cucamonga before a promotion to High-A Great Lakes, where he hit .282/.376/.421 in 50 games, with a combined 11 home runs, 60 walks (15%) and 115 strikeouts (29%) in 402 plate appearances between the two stops. That strikeout rate is on the higher side, but scouts highest on De Jesus believe he has a sound swing and tracks pitches well. De Jesus has shown the ability to drive the ball well on pitches middle-in, with better results on pitches on the outer third this year because he's not flying open early as often, helping him drive the ball well in the air the opposite way. It's still an aggressive approach that he will have to rein in some, but some scouts see De Jesus as a future everyday third baseman with 20-25 home run power. De Jesus has spent time at shortstop, but his range fits better at third base, with the hands and plus arm to stay there.

[Terminator]

Here is what Ben Badler wrote. Sounds better than Groshans lol:

 

Lol he does sound better.

[jaysguy44]

De Jesus listed as our #7 prospect by MLB.com, higher than I thought he would be.

[The Cats Ass]

De Jesus listed as our #7 prospect by MLB.com, higher than I thought he would be.

 

Frasso is ranked 26th for the Dodgers.

[Krylian]

Frasso is ranked 26th for the Dodgers.

 

But let's fire Atkins

[InsideThePark]

I think those rankings are mostly a carryover from where they were before. Dodgers have more depth so De Jesus moved up jumping to our pool. Frasso was criminally underanked entering the season and they barely updated at all so he slots in later for the Dodgers because they haven't re-evaluated him yet. Though it is encouraging, and I like De Jesus. I'm curious once they do a full update with the drafted players added too where both guys slot in.

[Spanky99]

I think those rankings are mostly a carryover from where they were before. Dodgers have more depth so De Jesus moved up jumping to our pool. Frasso was criminally underanked entering the season and they barely updated at all so he slots in later for the Dodgers because they haven't re-evaluated him yet. Though it is encouraging, and I like De Jesus. I'm curious once they do a full update with the drafted players added too where both guys slot in.

 

Frasso wasn't on BA's top 40, he was updated to 13th on July 23.

[Eat My Shatkins]

It's kind of funny that White has 1.2 fWAR over the last two seasons with just over 100 IP and yet the Dodgers had him tucked away in AAA. Why was he down there anyways?

 

His 0.7 fWAR this season puts him nearly in the lead for fWAR in the Jays pen, Romano has 0.8 fWAR, Garcia and Phelps have 0.7 fWAR

[max silver]

It's kind of funny that White has 1.2 fWAR over the last two seasons with just over 100 IP and yet the Dodgers had him tucked away in AAA. Why was he down there anyways?

 

His 0.7 fWAR this season puts him nearly in the lead for fWAR in the Jays pen, Romano has 0.8 fWAR, Garcia and Phelps have 0.7 fWAR

 

This isn't really a great comparison. 0.6 of White's WAR this season came as a starter and only 0.1 WAR coming in relief.

[Eat My Shatkins]

This isn't really a great comparison. 0.6 of White's WAR this season came as a starter and only 0.1 WAR coming in relief.

 

Fair enough

[Ray]

Show me a starting pitcher in the major leagues that has a delivery like Nick Frasso - I'll wait. Pretty certain he's a bullpen arm when it's all said and done. He may end up a very good one, but he's also almost 24 and in High-A. Mitchell White is 27 and already proven in the MLB at worst as a capable long man/5th starter/spot starter. I don't get the Stripling comps either. White has legitimate stuff with good velocity. His curveball is really good.

 

Like everyone has already mentioned, there isn't one prospect we've traded that we've really regretted. If Frasso was a high-probability top of the rotation starter, they wouldn't have traded him. He's not Ricky Tiedemann. He's a 4th round pick we developed to the point where he became an intriguing prospect. Have to trust our player development and new pitching lab will start churning out more Nick Frasso's going forward.

[Terminator]

Frasso was our number 13th ranked prospect according to Fangraphs updated list.

 

What was Frasso's org ranking on the other updated lists? MLB Pipeline has him as the Dodgers 26th best prospect, what was he with us? Where did BA have him ranked?

 

EDIT: Looks like he was our 13th best prospect on BA as well.

[Spanky99]

Frasso was our number 13th ranked prospect according to Fangraphs updated list.

 

What was Frasso's org ranking on the other updated lists? MLB Pipeline has him as the Dodgers 26th best prospect, what was he with us? Where did BA have him ranked?

 

BA had him 13 also. Not sure with Pipeline or BP.

 

This is his write up...

 

Track Record: A multi-sport athlete in high school who was a high-flying basketball player in addition to a pitcher, Frasso matriculated to Loyala Marymount where he gained 40 pounds of muscle over his three years with the program, getting his fastball up to 97 mph. He underwent Tommy John surgery in June of 2021 and returned to action less than 11 months following the surgery. Scouting Report: A tall righthander that oozes athleticism, Frasso’s game is predicated on power. He blends his mid-to-high-90s four-seamer that’s been up to 100 mph this spring with a tighter slider at 82-85 mph. His best pitch based on performance this season is his mid-80s changeup. He’s been limited to 3-4 innings per start which is to be expected as he works his way back from Tommy John surgery. Promoted to High-A Vancouver in early July, Frasso has impressed, missing bats with all three of his pitches and limiting walks. It’s still undetermined how many innings Frasso can build up to but he has the stuff to dominate in the pen. The Future: A rapid return to form from Frasso has seen his profile take a significant jump. Due to his high-powered stuff he provides a bullpen floor, with a potential rotation ceiling.

[Terminator]

Mitch White: 27 years old and has a 3.58 ERA in 105 MLB Innings

Nick Frasso: 24 years old and racking up Ks against a bunch of 19 year olds in A-Ball. Ranked outside our top 10 prospects by multiple organizations.

 

BJMB: "OH MY GOD HOW DARE THEY TRADE FRASSO FOR MITCH WHITE!!!! FIRE ATKINS!!!!"

[Eat My Shatkins]

Mitch White: 27 years old and has a 3.58 ERA in 105 MLB Innings

Nick Frasso: 24 years old and racking up Ks against a bunch of 19 year olds in A-Ball. Ranked outside our top 10 prospects by multiple organizations.

 

BJMB: "OH MY GOD HOW DARE THEY TRADE FRASSO FOR MITCH WHITE!!!! FIRE ATKINS!!!!"

 

lol holy s*** man easy on the hyperbole

 

I think one guy somewhere said Atkins should lose his job if they don't make run this year

 

Haven't seen anyone claim Atkins should be fired for trading Frasso

 

Jays don't have many guys in their system who can hit triple digits and are K-ing 14 guys per 9 innings pitched. Some of us were excited to follow his progression and are disappointed he's now gone.