Fire John Schneider

[TheHurl]

Idk, mate... I'm seeing a lot of Chuckles in Shneids, same mistakes, it's looking like it's analytics. Most teams use analytics now, but this feels like it's badly scripted. lol

 

Jays got 21 batters faced from Francis and Richards with 1 run. I don't understand how the decisions on the pitching order was made though

[BTS]

Can we change this thread to fire Atkins?? Because clearly these moves aren’t being decided by John. Its the same mistakes Charlie would make over and over.

 

Its Atkins

 

I think Atkins is gone this offseason if the team misses the playoffs. He's been mediocre at best at spending money, and the team's development system seems to lag behind a lot of other teams.

[Spanky__99]

Jays got 21 batters faced from Francis and Richards with 1 run. I don't understand how the decisions on the pitching order was made though

 

Why pull Francis? I'm baffled at that move.

[tossingthiscoin]

If we don't make the playoff this season, both Schneider and Atkins should be sacked immediately. When you spend several years making a team without any promising prospects (except Ricky) and still miss the playoff, then you should be out of the team.

[JaysAllMighty]

I am now in the fire Schneider camp. I had enough of his stupidity.

[Stangstag]

I think Atkins is gone this offseason if the team misses the playoffs. He's been mediocre at best at spending money, and the team's development system seems to lag behind a lot of other teams.

 

I would agree, missing the playoffs would be a massive failure and people should lose jobs if it happens.

[Stangstag]

If we don't make the playoff this season, both Schneider and Atkins should be sacked immediately. When you spend several years making a team without any promising prospects (except Ricky) and still miss the playoff, then you should be out of the team.

 

Agreed

[JFD]

Idk, mate... I'm seeing a lot of Chuckles in Shneids, same mistakes, it's looking like it's analytics. Most teams use analytics now, but this feels like it's badly scripted. lol

 

Gotta wonder what sort of analytics would suggest that using Cimber and his 4.9 K's per 9 innings was a good idea.

[Stangstag]

Why pull Francis? I'm baffled at that move.

 

“We like Cimber in that spot. He’s our guy and we trust him”

[TheHurl]

Why pull Francis? I'm baffled at that move.

 

He was never getting more than 12 batters

[Stangstag]

He was never getting more than 12 batters

 

He had less pitches than Richards, I really don’t get it. Wasn’t Francis stretched out and ready to go like 4 innings?

[Spanky__99]

He was never getting more than 12 batters

 

Why... he's stretched out, you agree going to Cimber? lol

[Terminator]

A few thoughts on today's bullpen usage:

 

Cimber just hasn't been right as he's dealt with an injury. He needs to be low man on the totem pole and I think he is for the most part. But Swanson was used 3 out of the 4 prior games, Pearson threw 27 pitches yesterday, and Garcia had pitched the previous two days in a row. And then Richards and Mayza were already used. I would have kept going with Francis but they were going to have to use Cimber at some point today regardless. I hate to even bring it up but maybe optioning Cimber and keeping Tony Carp around would have been more wise.

 

What they need to do is get Gausman in between Kikuchi and these new Richards/Francis games. Having back to back games where relievers are going to be relied on to pitch 12+ innings every single time through the rotation is a recipe for disaster and we saw it today. We had a slim lead but we couldn't use our normal setup men.

 

They are also going to have to take the training wheels off of Francis. It's fine to use an opener but Francis has got to be allowed to pitch 4+ innings. I think homers are going to be an issue for him as he's an extreme flyball pitcher but if he can limit the walks he should be able to eat innings. He seems to have a decent fastball-slider-curve repertoire with good velocity and control. Treat him like a #5 SP, not a 2 or 3 inning bottom of the barrel long man.

 

I didn't watch the last few innings, but Mitch White's underlying numbers weren't a total disaster despite the poor results. Velo was pretty good and he had a solid CSW%. Regardless, he needs to start being an effective longman and if not he's got to go. The Frasso trade will look horrible but we are in a dogfight for a Wild Card spot and can't afford to have someone who can't pitch when we are currently doing bullpen games every 5th start.

[Spanky__99]

They didn't NEED to use Cimber, give Francis the 8th.

[Jonn]

Staying with Francis was certainly the play. Also if they were willing to go to Romano so quickly in the 8th. Planning to use him for the 8th and 9th inning would have been a better strategy than the recently activated Cimber who had struggled both before and after his injury stint including the day prior. Romano has pitched multiple innings. Not suggesting today was a must win or anything but you can't say you gave your best effort to win it either.

[Stangstag]

Staying with Francis was certainly the play. Also if they were willing to go to Romano so quickly in the 8th. Planning to use him for the 8th and 9th inning would have been a better strategy than the recently activated Cimber who had struggled both before and after his injury stint including the day prior. Romano has pitched multiple innings. Not suggesting today was a must win or anything but you can't say you gave your best effort to win it either.

 

Francis for another inning was the right move. Cimber has been absolute ass all year and im not sure why he gets this much rope.

 

Also the early pull of Kikuchi yesterday put them in a tight spot today.

 

Just 2 badly managed games back to back.

 

Pray Gausman gives us 7 tomorrow because if not, we may be in trouble

[Terminator]

Pray Gausman gives us 7 tomorrow because if not, we may be in trouble

 

Well none of the A-team pitched today and should be available tomorrow. Pearson, Romano, Swanson, etc. Definitely needs to eat some innings though as Richards and Francis aren't available and a lot of others could use a day off. Though we do have an off day on Monday.

[Terminator]

They didn't NEED to use Cimber, give Francis the 8th.

 

Yeah my mistake, I didn't realize it was the 8th. I thought it was the 7th when the implosion happened. I suppose they thought Cimber would be better than Francis against the middle of the lineup the second time through.

 

I think before the game it was fair to make that assessment and that's probably what they based it off of.

 

But Francis was dealing and was up to 98 on the gun. That's where some old school management would have come in handy instead of relying on the pre-game analytics.

[Stangstag]

Yeah my mistake, I didn't realize it was the 8th. I thought it was the 7th when the implosion happened. I suppose they thought Cimber would be better than Francis against the middle of the lineup the second time through.

 

I think before the game it was fair to make that assessment and that's probably what they based it off of.

 

But Francis was dealing and was up to 98 on the gun. That's where some old school management would have come in handy instead of relying on the pre-game analytics.

 

This has been the main issue the past few seasons

[Jays333]

wow I dont know that was about as dumb as it gets. Is still dont understand why this guy was made manager off of a half a season sample size when were suppose to be winning now. Also Cimber f***ing blows and has for quite awhile, what is their obsession with him. Francis was doing just fine, f***ing analytics ********.

[TheHurl]

He had less pitches than Richards, I really don’t get it. Wasn’t Francis stretched out and ready to go like 4 innings?

 

New school is never about number of innings. It is a true game plan and Francis will face between "x and x" batters. Might have to do with ensuring he is available for Baltimore. Not sure. But I thought he was to face between 9 and 12 batters and would have been shocked if he faced more.

[Jays333]

If we don't make the playoff this season, both Schneider and Atkins should be sacked immediately. When you spend several years making a team without any promising prospects (except Ricky) and still miss the playoff, then you should be out of the team.

 

Atkins especially, guy has built a house of cards with no depth at all anywhere. Were about to lose Chapman, replaced by Barger?? Maybe. We will lose either Bo or Vladdy in a couple years. Springer is getting old. Were suppose to winning now but we cant even win our division. Not sure why people still back this guy.

[TheHurl]

The real issue is that Cimber is a guy that they believe in (or are forced to put in)

[thatoneguy]

I think Atkins is gone this offseason if the team misses the playoffs. He's been mediocre at best at spending money, and the team's development system seems to lag behind a lot of other teams.

 

He should be after coming up with pretty mediocre results for going on 8 years now with what was supposed to be a contending window.

[Laika]

I don't know if I hang that one on Schneider.

 

Francis' minor league track record makes it seem like he's not a real starting pitcher anyway. Probably more of a once time through guy... or once through then pray the second time goes right if he had to be a normal starter (like Kikuchi).

 

Circumstances in prior games kind of left them with little options in this one

 

BUT Cimber wearing back to back Ls just when the team was turning it around is rough. His job on the team is in jeopardy at this point

[max silver]

I don't know if I hang that one on Schneider.

 

Francis' minor league track record makes it seem like he's not a real starting pitcher anyway. Probably more of a once time through guy... or once through then pray the second time goes right if he had to be a normal starter (like Kikuchi).

 

Circumstances in prior games kind of left them with little options in this one

 

BUT Cimber wearing back to back Ls just when the team was turning it around is rough. His job on the team is in jeopardy at this point

 

Cimber is the most likely candidate to be out of a job once Green is ready.

[John_Havok]

Cimber is the most likely candidate to be out of a job once Green is ready.

 

No doubt at all, especially given his FA status at the end of the season.

[Laika]

No doubt at all, especially given his FA status at the end of the season.

 

Isn't he controlled for one more

[Iggy]

Isn't he controlled for one more

 

Yep, Cimber has one more arb year - 2024

[Stangstag]

Isn't he controlled for one more

 

Yeah but he has options no?