Montoyo Fired

[L54]

I almost never notice managers talking to guys in the dugout. It’s usually seen as ‘showing up’ the player.

 

I mean how many seconds of a broadcast are spent on the dugout? 45?

[Omar]

You think the FO fired him because of his PC response to the f***ing media? Really? C'mon man.

 

The response wasn’t PC. It was moronic.

[Solaxys]

Should we find their forum and send them a thank you post?

 

Nah, we wait; we get them in WC game and absolutely wipe the floor with them and THEN we send a thank you note.

[Dagagad]

I mean how many seconds of a broadcast are spent on the dugout? 45?

 

True, but presumably if something interesting happened, they’d catch it.

 

Also, it’s way more than that.

[THANOS]

But is he the alpha who will tear a strip off players who make mental mistakes and errors? (I mean if he was, wouldn't he do that as the bench coach already? or was a muzzled by the presence of Alpha Montoyo?)

 

Probably muzzled. Barker knows him well and said he's a fantastic talker and always holds his players accountable.

 

So if that wasn't happening, then he was muzzled, because it's out of character.

[L54]

True, but presumably if something interesting happened, they’d catch it.

 

Also, it’s way more than that.

 

Presumably*

 

The viewer has eyes on the dugout for 60s of a 180 minute game.

 

Impossible to deduct from that

[Solaxys]

 

Is Arash an idiot or is he saying the FO intentionally held the Jays hostage so they would have a reason to fire Montoyo?

[Brownie19]

Probably muzzled. Barker knows him well and said he's a fantastic talker and always holds his players accountable.

 

So if that wasn't happening, then he was muzzled, because it's out of character.

 

I guess we'll see. I'm always take what the media says with a massive grain of salt.

[Brownie19]

Presumably*

 

The viewer has eyes on the dugout for 60s of a 180 minute game.

 

Impossible to deduct from that

 

Then how do we know that Charlie isn't talking to the players or being the alpha in the dugout?

[L54]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

[THANOS]

 

Is Arash an idiot or is he saying the FO intentionally held the Jays hostage so they would have a reason to fire Montoyo?

 

I think we've seen enough with him to know it's, more often than not, the former.

[Solaxys]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

 

 

For anyone else that missed it:

(4:50 mark)

[G-Snarls]

About f***ing time.

 

Ross is feeling the heat, atta boy Shapiro.

 

It shows a strong desire to win now and not punt the rest of the season

 

Now upgrade the bullpen at the trade deadline and lets go on a serious tear

[RustyTrombone]

Arash is an idiot, best to ignore any "reporting" coming form him.

[Brownie19]

The response wasn’t PC. It was moronic.

 

C'mon man. Media talk isn't meaningful, true or even interesting. Could Charlie have said something like "I think we're all disappointed in our performance and we need to regroup and get back to playing better baseball'? Sure he could have - would that have changed anything? Obviously the message he gives to the players behind closed doors and the actions he's taking to right the ship are 1000% more important and impactful to the team. If the final straw was the message that Charlie provided to a random interview comment, then we need a new FO immediately because that's f***ing stupid.

[L54]

Then how do we know that Charlie isn't talking to the players or being the alpha in the dugout?

 

Honestly it’s not hard to see that these guys weren’t worried about repercussions from their (former) manager nor did they respect his authority.

 

I’d say 80% of the forum agrees and it’s not a very controversial take. If you can’t see that then I don’t think I’ll be able to explain it to you

[G-Snarls]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

 

Yeah that was dumb

 

Also jjst seeing for the first time

 

Vladdy clearly knew better than anyone that he missed it. Appreciate him owning it and not wanting them to waste a challenge. They won the game but sounds like it could have cost them with missed challenge opportunities.

[Omar]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

 

Montoyo said after the game yesterday that the ump told both teams that they will have only 20 seconds to challenge or not and that his video room said yes to challenge before Vlad signalled safe.

[Brownie19]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

 

 

For anyone else that missed it:

(4:50 mark)

 

C'mon guys. Every player knows there's people in the video booth responsible for making the decision on whether to challenge or not. The manager is just the messenger. Players are wrong about what they 'saw' on the field ALL the time. This is really bad reporting by BNS.

[Orgfiller]

I agree the end of the dugout is a problem but the only logical piece to move is Gurriel. Can’t move Teoscar because that’s selling at pretty much rock bottom and nobody else is the barrio is getting moved.

 

That being said I’d gladly trade Gurriel. His biggest asset is his salary and is completely expendable in my view.

 

Teoscar might be underperforming relative to 2020-2021 levels, but he has a 114 wRC+ and 1.2 WAR and projects to be a good hitter. I wouldn't exactly call it rock bottom, he hasn't been that bad and still demolishes the ball when he makes contact.

[Solaxys]

C'mon guys. Every player knows there's people in the video booth responsible for making the decision on whether to challenge or not. The manager is just the messenger. Players are wrong about what they 'saw' on the field ALL the time. This is really bad reporting by BNS.

 

Fair but I don't think I ever saw a player tell the dugout NOT to challenge on a play, fully knowing they are going to lose it.

 

Most 'wrong's are players wanting a challenge on close plays. This was the other way around. Vladdy was owning up to his mistake and didn't want the club to make it more of a mistake.

How do you not listen to the guy who is saying 'I did not step on 1st base, its an error on my part, don't challenge'

 

Like hell, reprimand the video relay guy for relaying the go-ahead then; can't do that at this stage on a play that wasn't even close 'cause his foot was inches away from the bag.

[Laika]

Just saw the Vladdy error last night on Jays in 30

 

Why wouldn’t they listen to him? He’s the guy on the field

 

Dumb

 

what do you mean

 

players are wrong about this all the time

 

how many times have you seen Vladdy point to the dugout for a review but he was wrong? it happens multiple times a week

[wilko]

what do you mean

 

players are wrong about this all the time

 

how many times have you seen Vladdy point to the dugout for a review but he was wrong? it happens multiple times a week

 

That's a trait I wish Vladdy would lose.

[wilko]

 

Is Arash an idiot or is he saying the FO intentionally held the Jays hostage so they would have a reason to fire Montoyo?

 

I don't know why but I read that as Arash and now hate myself for it.

[guylaroche5]

so no more Tapia batting 5th/6th? one would think right

[THANOS]

I don't know why but I read that as Arash and now hate myself for it.

 

Did you have the pompous windbag cadence and everything?

[Brownie19]

Honestly it’s not hard to see that these guys weren’t worried about repercussions from their (former) manager nor did they respect his authority.

 

I’d say 80% of the forum agrees and it’s not a very controversial take. If you can’t see that then I don’t think I’ll be able to explain it to you

 

I'm just playing off this on-going discussion in what (in my mind at least) is playful banter. But I'm still not convinced that the leagues best managers are hard asses that implement repercussions consistently when players make mental mistakes (let alone physical mistakes). Who are the best managers in the MLB now anyways? Any evidence those guys are alphas who bench or pull players regularly when they make mental mistakes? I see a forum of fans who are frustrated and looking for a solution to a season that is slipping away.

 

Firing the manager is the stereotypical solution and Atkins has now tried that lever (perhaps to save his job as the gun probably should have been pointed at him instead). We've seen this work before, let's see what happens now. I can't wait to see Vlad benched for not running out ground balls or making a bone headed base running mistake - and for Schneider to rip him a new ******* in the dugout. Maybe it will work! That fat ass sure needed a wake up call after 2020 - I still wonder what his weight is at right now v. last year.

[Dagagad]

Presumably*

 

The viewer has eyes on the dugout for 60s of a 180 minute game.

 

Impossible to deduct from that

 

You don’t think they’d go back to the dugout if there was a shot of Charlie talking to vlad after something happened?

[L54]

what do you mean

 

players are wrong about this all the time

 

how many times have you seen Vladdy point to the dugout for a review but he was wrong? it happens multiple times a week

 

Players are wrong all the time when they think they got the out or were safe - of course. Natural reaction.

 

Have you ever seen a player tell their team not to challenge and then be wrong? I haven’t.

[wilko]

so no more Tapia batting 5th/6th? one would think right

 

I heard it was Schneider making the lineups. Montoyo was afraid to hurt anyone's feelings.