GDT: 4/4 Toronto Blue Jays (12-7) vs Boston Red Sox (8-11) 3:07 ET

[Stangstag]

Why does this keep happening to Kirk

 

It's the 3rd time he's dropped something important

 

Hard to keep track of all his snacks + equipment in his pockets

[spats]

Didn't they say they weren't expecting him back until maybe the series at Cleveland?

 

Nobody is hoping Teo is back soon more than Vladdy.

[John_Havok]

If so, it's about f***ing time.

 

They've been getting f***ed over a lot in the early going.

 

Actually the Jays have been favoured in most of their games, but when they are favoured the impact on runs is minimal. When they get f***ed though, they get f***ed hard. They’re have favourable calls in like 75% of their games, but still have the 5th worst negative runs from umps. It’s quite a weird dynamic

[Eat My Shatkins]

Actually the Jays have been favoured in most of their games, but when they are favoured the impact on runs is minimal. When they get f***ed though, they get f***ed hard. They’re have favourable calls in like 75% of their games, but still have the 5th worst negative runs from umps. It’s quite a weird dynamic

 

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If t's in the Jays favor, it's negligible. When it's in the other teams favor it's a run or more in their favor.

[G-Snarls]

 

Good god Kirk, get your s*** together.

 

Nice move by Cora.

 

Only Tampa players steal s***?!

[G-Snarls]

Cause you know... Cora would never be involved in cheating

[M.E.]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If t's in the Jays favor, it's negligible. When it's in the other teams favor it's a run or more in their favor.

 

If you look at Ump scorecard Jeff Nelson who had a disastrous game calling the Jays vs A's didn't get behind the plate for 11 days. Could MLB actually be punishing bad umpires?

 

https://umpscorecards.com/single_umpire/?name=Jeff%20Nelson

[Stangstag]

Cause you know... Cora would never be involved in cheating

 

He’s a real standup guy

[Olerud363]

Nobody is hoping Teo is back soon more than Vladdy.

 

This is so stupid. Why would Vladdy care? Sure Vladdy is struggling a bit in the last week.

 

So you think he's not getting pitches to hit? And that makes him a weaker version of Vladdy maybe .280 .340 .450 instead of the monster .300 .400 .600 Vladdy?

 

Let's say that is true

 

Pitching pattern 1 (Teo is there) - they "pitch" to Vladdy - Vladdy hits .300 .400 .600

Pitching pattern 2 (no Teo) - they "don't pitch" to Vladdy - Vladdy hits .280 .340 .450

 

Teo comes back. YAAAY! They'll pitch to Vladdy again. Or will they? Why would they ever pitch to Vladdy if 'not pitching' to him makes him worse?

 

This hole idea of protection is the stupidest thing in baseball. They use the pattern that gets the guy out the most. Doesn't matter who is behind or in front of you.

[Olerud363]

This is so stupid. Why would Vladdy care? Sure Vladdy is struggling a bit in the last week.

 

So you think he's not getting pitches to hit? And that makes him a weaker version of Vladdy maybe .280 .340 .450 instead of the monster .300 .400 .600 Vladdy?

 

Let's say that is true

 

Pitching pattern 1 (Teo is there) - they "pitch" to Vladdy - Vladdy hits .300 .400 .600

Pitching pattern 2 (no Teo) - they "don't pitch" to Vladdy - Vladdy hits .280 .340 .450

 

Teo comes back. YAAAY! They'll pitch to Vladdy again. Or will they? Why would they ever pitch to Vladdy if 'not pitching' to him makes him worse?

 

This hole idea of protection is the stupidest thing in baseball. They use the pattern that gets the guy out the most. Doesn't matter who is behind or in front of you.

 

The only exception to this is guys like Barry Bonds, or Soto who have the ability or willingness to take 150 walks.

 

So in that case there might be a pattern that makes them like, .300 .480 .500 hitters, instead of .300 .400 .600 hitters and if there is a good hitter behind them, they will change the pattern to reduce on base percentage.

 

However no one on the Jays, including Vladdy is that prototype. Maybe Vladdy will be someday. However right now they'll just use the pattern that gets him out the most, based on their scouting.

[Olerud363]

The only exception to this is guys like Barry Bonds, or Soto who have the ability or willingness to take 150 walks.

 

So in that case there might be a pattern that makes them like, .300 .480 .500 hitters, instead of .300 .400 .600 hitters and if there is a good hitter behind them, they will change the pattern to reduce on base percentage.

 

However no one on the Jays, including Vladdy is that prototype. Maybe Vladdy will be someday. However right now they'll just use the pattern that gets him out the most, based on their scouting.

 

Bo - hitting .220 .240 .300 ore so with a top 5 hitter behind him.

 

Are they pitching to him because they are afraid of Vlad?

 

No. they throw whatever crap up there that he'll swing at, get bo and 2 and then get out on.

 

Same with Vlad. If it turns out he is hitting worse than usual without Teo, they will keep the same pattern when Teo comes back to keep him hitting worse than usual.

[connorp]

Instead of creating a narrative, if one was really interested in diving into it, you could see what percentage of strikes Vlad is seeing pre/post Teo injury. It’s possible Vlad is pressing, trying to put too much on his shoulders. Not so willing to take the walks. I don’t think it’s as simple as saying, Teo is back but let’s just pitch Vladdy exactly the same as we were lol.

[connorp]

Bo is a different animal. Clearly not about the protection. If you can get away with throwing him garbage and know he’s going to swing, of course it doesn’t matter who is behind him

[Krylian]

Bo has always been a free swinger...cause he got away with it. Looks like teams have finally decided to give him very little to hit. Will be interesting to see how long it takes him to adjust and start taking.

[Stangstag]

Bo has always been a free swinger...cause he got away with it. Looks like teams have finally decided to give him very little to hit. Will be interesting to see how long it takes him to adjust and start taking.

 

Im pretty sure I saw some stats that said Bo is getting MORE pitches IN the zone than previous years. And he’s not swinging at more junk than usual.

 

His main problem has been that he’s not barreling up fastballs like he used to. Not so different than Kirk’s current struggles.

 

Bo will be fine, his timing is just off right now. Its almost like he’s sitting back trying to hit breaking balls to RF and then he’s late on the fastball. He’ll figure it out.

[John_Havok]

[John_Havok]

Im pretty sure I saw some stats that said Bo is getting MORE pitches IN the zone than previous years. And he’s not swinging at more junk than usual.

 

His main problem has been that he’s not barreling up fastballs like he used to. Not so different than Kirk’s current struggles.

 

Bo will be fine, his timing is just off right now. Its almost like he’s sitting back trying to hit breaking balls to RF and then he’s late on the fastball. He’ll figure it out.

 

 

Yes he's seing more in the zone, but he's swinging at them less, whilst making less contact both in and out of the zone by quite a lot.

[43211234]

 

I'm still not sure about the methodology for these ump scorecards.

 

 

There needs to be more nuance for those borderline calls. A few egregious ones like the strike to end the game or the first-pitch ball to Chapman, but look at the most impactful call. Like come on, that shouldn't be held against any human umpire.

[John_Havok]

I'm still not sure about the methodology for these ump scorecards.

 

 

There needs to be more nuance for those borderline calls. A few egregious ones like the strike to end the game or the first-pitch ball to Chapman, but look at the most impactful call. Like come on, that shouldn't be held against any human umpire.

 

I dont think its intent is to hold things against umps, but rather to show the kind of impact a missed call can have in any given situation. They're not saying that call was the worst call, just that it potentially impacted the potential run scoring environment more.

 

They explain their methodology quite well on their website.

[Deadpool]

I'm still not sure about the methodology for these ump scorecards.

 

 

There needs to be more nuance for those borderline calls. A few egregious ones like the strike to end the game or the first-pitch ball to Chapman, but look at the most impactful call. Like come on, that shouldn't be held against any human umpire.

 

The idea is to collect enough data to show that we absolutely should not under any circumstances HAVE human umpires.

[Terminator]

I'm still not sure about the methodology for these ump scorecards.

 

 

There needs to be more nuance for those borderline calls. A few egregious ones like the strike to end the game or the first-pitch ball to Chapman, but look at the most impactful call. Like come on, that shouldn't be held against any human umpire.

 

One thing that this doesn't account for is a borderline strike that's called a ball because the pitcher doesn't hit his spot. Most agree that the ump is probably right to call it a ball when the catcher has to scramble to receive the pitch, even if the ball does technically touch the strike zone.

[Abomination]

One thing that this doesn't account for is a borderline strike that's called a ball because the pitcher doesn't hit his spot. Most agree that the ump is probably right to call it a ball when the catcher has to scramble to receive the pitch, even if the ball does technically touch the strike zone.

 

That's nonsense. The strike zone is the strike zone. The catcher could literally go play center field (is it technically allowed to throw a pitch without a catcher?) and it theoretically shouldn't change anything.

[John_Havok]

That's nonsense. The strike zone is the strike zone. The catcher could literally go play center field (is it technically allowed to throw a pitch without a catcher?) and it theoretically shouldn't change anything.

 

no, cant pitch without a catcher. Aside from the pitcher, the catcher is the only other position player that has to be in a certain spot. every other fielder the only current rule is that they all must begin the play in fair territory.

[Terminator]

That's nonsense. The strike zone is the strike zone. The catcher could literally go play center field (is it technically allowed to throw a pitch without a catcher?) and it theoretically shouldn't change anything.

 

What?

 

I'm talking about if the catcher sets up inside and the ball is low and away so he has to stab at it. Even if the pitch in that situation catches the corner, the ump will call it a ball but the Ump Scorecard will dock the ump for that call. I'd say most people are willing to accept the ump calling it a ball.

 

Keep in mind this was said within the context of 43211234 saying there needs to be more nuance to Ump Scorecard's methodology. There's 4 misses on there where the ball BARELY touched the zone. I'm not really bothered by those calls so the ump's performance was probably better than the raw grades show.

[Deadpool]

What?

 

I'm talking about if the catcher sets up inside and the ball is low and away so he has to stab at it. Even if the pitch in that situation catches the corner, the ump will call it a ball but the Ump Scorecard will dock the ump for that call. I'd say most people are willing to accept the ump calling it a ball.

 

Keep in mind this was said within the context of 43211234 saying there needs to be more nuance to Ump Scorecard's methodology. There's 4 misses on there where the ball BARELY touched the zone. I'm not really bothered by those calls so the ump's performance was probably better than the raw grades show.

 

I think you would be wrong with this assumption. I certainly am not willing to accept the ump calling it a ball.

[Terminator]

I think you would be wrong with this assumption. I certainly am not willing to accept the ump calling it a ball.

 

 

Well you're a robo ump extremist which is great but I bet the majority of fans, many of whom are casuals, are more or less ok with pitches like that being called balls. A majority of fans might not only accept that but are actually very in favor of pitches like that being called a ball.

 

Also, I think you might be surprised on how often you could end up disagreeing with robo umps. I'm 100% in favor of them but even robo umps make some interesting calls once in a while.

[John_Havok]

Well you're a robo ump extremist which is great but I bet the majority of fans, many of whom are casuals, are more or less ok with pitches like that being called balls. A majority of fans might not only accept that but are actually very in favor of pitches like that being called a ball.

 

Also, I think you might be surprised on how often you could end up disagreeing with robo umps. I'm 100% in favor of them but even robo umps make some interesting calls once in a while.

 

Speaking for myself only, I understand why umps get extremely borderline calls wrong sometimes. The problem is not with the pitches that barely graze the edges of the zone with just the very edge of the spinning stitches, the problem is it's impossible to be consistent with those calls due to the limitations of the human eye. That's when it gets crazy, when pitches in basically identical locations get called balls and strikes back and forth.

 

I will say i am alos firmly in the camp of the ones where the pitcher misses his spot but ends up throwing the ball well within the strize zone to be strikes. Understanding why something is called a ball does not excuse it being called a ball when it's not even close. And i think the reason they get those calls so wrong is because of where the ump sets up on those pitches. If they just set up in a more central location, they'd be far less influenced by the catcher's movements.

[Jimcanuck]

Well you're a robo ump extremist which is great but I bet the majority of fans, many of whom are casuals, are more or less ok with pitches like that being called balls. A majority of fans might not only accept that but are actually very in favor of pitches like that being called a ball.

 

Also, I think you might be surprised on how often you could end up disagreeing with robo umps. I'm 100% in favor of them but even robo umps make some interesting calls once in a while.

 

I think the fans will adjust very quickly. In any event the more important thing is to make the game more fair to both teams, and particularly the players that have to suffer from crappy umpiring.