General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Horses Fart]

Schnids extended. 3 years.

[The Cats Ass]

Looks like Schneider is sticking around. Three-year contract with a team option for the 2026 season

 

I trust him to take us all the way. He's already won championships managing the Vancouver Canadians (2011), Dunedin Blue Jays (2017) and NH Fishercats (2018). He has the "it" factor.

 

[HERPDERP]

Wasn't Montoyo fired a year into his deal?

[The Cats Ass]

Wasn't Montoyo fired a year into his deal?

 

Yup. The term length is usually just to make sure they don't take off for somewhere else.

[John_Havok]

Yup. The term length is usually just to make sure they don't take off for somewhere else.

 

Yeah, managers want job security too. Any manager would be crazy to take 1 year deals.

[43211234]

Atkins confirmed the bone spur it to the Toronto Star on Oct 11, but surgery isn’t a definite thing yet…though that’s pretty much the only way to get rid of it.

 

 

 

The 33-year-old veteran had been playing through an undisclosed right elbow injury throughout the second half of the season. Atkins revealed Tuesday it was a bone spur.

 

Springer is scheduled to have the elbow examined by a specialist once he has been cleared for travel.(had the concussion at the time so wouldn’t have been able to fly)

 

“We don’t know,” Atkins said when asked if Springer would require surgery. “His elbow is feeling much better, so we’ll see once he gets in there, but I don’t expect that to impact him … If anything, I think just getting rid of that spur will only impact him positively and his ability to play centre field.”

 

Sounds to me surgery is likely once Springer is able to fly again. Should be plenty of time to heal before the season.

[Spanky99]

Jays have 6 finalists for the Silver Slugger Award...

 

[Grant77]

Jays have 6 finalists for the Silver Slugger Award...

 

 

Kirk and Bo have strong cases. Vlad isn't as far back as some may think and he did lead in HR, R, and RBI. I'm mildly surprised the others were even nominated.

[Spanky99]

Kirk and Bo have strong cases. Vlad isn't as far back as some may think and he did lead in HR, R, and RBI. I'm mildly surprised the others were even nominated.

 

Why, Springer and Hernandez absolutely deserve to be nominated? The only stretch is Chappy, I'm more proud of how many there are nominated, that's impressive.

[Grant77]

Why, Springer and Hernandez absolutely deserve to be nominated? The only stretch is Chappy, I'm more proud of how many there are nominated, that's impressive.

 

Are 3 nominated for each position? I just thought Judge, Trout, and Rodriguez were more deserving in CF, for example.

[Stangstag]

Are 3 nominated for each position? I just thought Judge, Trout, and Rodriguez were more deserving in CF, for example.

 

I don’t think Judge is seen as a CF around the league. But the other guys sure

[Laika]

Don’t they just do three outfield silver sluggers? These are the nominees as listed

 

Aaron Judge (NYY)

Julio Rodríguez (SEA)

Kyle Tucker (HOU)

Mike Trout (LAA)

Randy Arozarena (TB)

George Springer (TOR)

Taylor Ward (LAA)

Anthony Santander (BAL)

Adolis García (TEX)

Teoscar Hernández (TOR)

 

They also nominated four for the other positions which helps explain Chapman sneaking in there

[Spanky99]

Vladito won the Gold Glove...

 

[Terminator]

Vlad just got an extra 15 million thrown into his extension by winning that today

[Spanky99]

Vlad just got an extra 15 million thrown into his extension by winning that today

 

Yup, and Abreu was robbed.

[Brownie19]

Vladito won the Gold Glove...

 

 

I know Gold Glove awards are stupid, but I do think Vlad played a good 1st base this year (kudos for him for working at it). But I think the guys at Fangraphs need to improve this defensive value calculation. Vlad was statistically the 11th least valuable player in baseball last year.

[BigCecil]

Good for Vlad. Thought he was pretty good but a little surprised. I have no idea how they pick these. I pay little attention after watching some of the nominees and winners over the years. I think analytics have really devalued them.

[wilko]

Good for Vlad. Thought he was pretty good but a little surprised. I have no idea how they pick these. I pay little attention after watching some of the nominees and winners over the years. I think analytics have really devalued them.

 

I think they judge it by how many times you make the highlight reel for the best plays of the week. Vlad doing splits = GG.

[Laika]

I know Gold Glove awards are stupid, but I do think Vlad played a good 1st base this year (kudos for him for working at it). But I think the guys at Fangraphs need to improve this defensive value calculation. Vlad was statistically the 11th least valuable player in baseball last year.

 

Based on OAA?

 

Defensive metrics for 1B are pretty weird / dumb. Almost everybody other than Walker (big +) and Lowe (big -) fall into a tight band, within 4 runs of zero.

 

It's not like other positions where range matters ALL THE TIME and you get TONS OF MEASUREMENTS of range in a season.

 

Eye test says Vlad is very good there and he did lead qualified 1B in "scoops." Great hands, strong arm, above average athleticism. Could improve in a few ways of course.

 

He led the AL in DRS, the defensive stat that predated UZR and OAA

 

So when he has a -4 OAA but the best qualified 1B in the AL only have +1 and +2 OAA should that stat really be the difference maker? Probably not given the nature of it.

[Jimcanuck]

Vlad needs to share the award with Bo.

[Brownie19]

Based on OAA?

 

Defensive metrics for 1B are pretty weird / dumb. Almost everybody other than Walker (big +) and Lowe (big -) fall into a tight band, within 4 runs of zero.

 

It's not like other positions where range matters ALL THE TIME and you get TONS OF MEASUREMENTS of range in a season.

 

Eye test says Vlad is very good there and he did lead qualified 1B in "scoops." Great hands, strong arm, above average athleticism. Could improve in a few ways of course.

 

He led the AL in DRS, the defensive stat that predated UZR and OAA

 

So when he has a -4 OAA but the best qualified 1B in the AL only have +1 and +2 OAA should that stat really be the difference maker? Probably not given the nature of it.

 

Bruh I'm just looking at the "Def" stat on Fangraphs.

[Spanky99]

Bruh I'm just looking at the "Def" stat on Fangraphs.

 

lol

[Laika]

Bruh I'm just looking at the "Def" stat on Fangraphs.

 

okay, well every qualified first baseman not named C. Walker sucks by that measure and is in the bottom 25th percentile of qualified position players.

 

so sorry but not sorry because your initial comment just made it seem like you didn't know what you were looking at

[Terminator]

Bruh I'm just looking at the "Def" stat on Fangraphs.

 

That number heavily penalizes the position a player plays. Even stud 1B will end up with a negative number sometimes.

[Spanky99]

That number heavily penalizes the position a player plays. Even stud 1B will end up with a negative number almost 97% of the time.

 

fixed

[Brownie19]

okay, well every qualified first baseman not named C. Walker sucks by that measure and is in the bottom 25th percentile of qualified position players.

 

so sorry but not sorry because your initial comment just made it seem like you didn't know what you were looking at

 

My point is someone like JD Martinez DH'd the entire season and has a Def value of -15.0

Vlad wins the gold glove at 1st base and has a Def value of -15.4

 

Yes, Vlad played 21 more games than JD did, but how in the living f*** can the calculations suggest Vlad was LESS valuable defensively than someone who played 0 innings in the field. I fully understand that no matter how good you are defensively at 1st base, it's not as 'valuable' as someone who plays (even well below average) at another position - but this just doesn't add up for me.

[Terminator]

My point is someone like JD Martinez DH'd the entire season and has a Def value of -15.0

Vlad wins the gold glove at 1st base and has a Def value of -15.4

 

Yes, Vlad played 21 more games than JD did, but how in the living f*** can the calculations suggest Vlad was LESS valuable defensively than someone who played 0 innings in the field. I fully understand that no matter how good you are defensively at 1st base, it's not as 'valuable' as someone who plays (even well below average) at another position - but this just doesn't add up for me.

 

Yeah I think that's fair and they should look into tweaking that. Vlad was bad by several metrics last year so they are probably using those metrics. He also gets penalized for playing 1B, the lowest position on the defensive spectrum. The penalties are probably almost as much as JD Martinez does for DHing. So a below average 1B is worth about the same as a DH, and to be honest that does make sense.

 

But all fielding metrics should be taken with a grain of salt. I read that Trea Turner's metrics were crap this year and he wondered why. Well he found out that merely playing 4 feet more shallow than he normally does was affecting his numbers. He asked the Dodgers if he could play back a little more, they said yes and his numbers went back to normal. So it's very hard for the numbers to account for positioning it seems.

 

That number has long puzzled me though.

[Spanky99]

Since no-one can never answer my question about what metric we should trust, I just use DRS, UZR/150, and OAA and figure it out from there as a medium. IDK

[Spanky99]

My point is someone like JD Martinez DH'd the entire season and has a Def value of -15.0

Vlad wins the gold glove at 1st base and has a Def value of -15.4

 

Yes, Vlad played 21 more games than JD did, but how in the living f*** can the calculations suggest Vlad was LESS valuable defensively than someone who played 0 innings in the field. I fully understand that no matter how good you are defensively at 1st base, it's not as 'valuable' as someone who plays (even well below average) at another position - but this just doesn't add up for me.

 

I never use that metric, it fluctuates all over the place, from year to year too, never makes any sense. It's not even remotely consistent.

[Laika]

My point is someone like JD Martinez DH'd the entire season and has a Def value of -15.0

Vlad wins the gold glove at 1st base and has a Def value of -15.4

 

Yes, Vlad played 21 more games than JD did, but how in the living f*** can the calculations suggest Vlad was LESS valuable defensively than someone who played 0 innings in the field. I fully understand that no matter how good you are defensively at 1st base, it's not as 'valuable' as someone who plays (even well below average) at another position - but this just doesn't add up for me.

 

replacement talent theory

 

you give positions bigger positional adjustments when the pool of talent who can play the position competently is scarce

 

it turns out that the pool of players who can handle 1B is not much smaller than the pool who can DH

 

there is a reason that people describe players who are useless defensively as "1B/DH" types

 

so it turns out that a -5 1B is as bad as someone who literally does not play defense

 

and a -4 1B who gets more playing time will accrue as much negative D value as a DH (as is the case with Vlad and JDM).

 

 

But Vlad isn't really a -4 1B in my opinion. I think that's just a 2022 blip or a measurement error. He looks good.