General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[goldbug103]

Atkins is rolling the dice on the rotation staying healthy. Not only was Mitch White our lone SP acquisition but he also traded away Max Castillo. If we miss the playoffs it will be because of injuries to the rotation and Toronto media and casual fans will be calling for him to get fired.

 

The lack of left handed power is another massive hole, not addressed at the deadline. Like was Merriweather the best outfield depth available ? There were no leftie hitters available of any kind ? ItÂ’s not hard to upgrade over Biggio and even that Atkins failed. It had better be addressed in the off season.

[WryNGinger]

Kirk batting 3rd today?

[RobinThicc]

The way the team has handled Springer and his injuries this season and last has been nothing short of bush league.

[Spanky99]

The lack of left handed power is another massive hole, not addressed at the deadline. Like was Merriweather the best outfield depth available ? There were no leftie hitters available of any kind ? ItÂ’s not hard to upgrade over Biggio and even that Atkins failed. It had better be addressed in the off season.

 

Juan Soto and Ian Happ, Cubs didn't move Happ, so Soto.

[Stangstag]

Atkins is rolling the dice on the rotation staying healthy. Not only was Mitch White our lone SP acquisition but he also traded away Max Castillo. If we miss the playoffs it will be because of injuries to the rotation and Toronto media and casual fans will be calling for him to get fired.

 

And it would be justified. Its pretty much make or break for him IMO, and I respect that he didn’t pillage the farm to save his job

[jaysguy44]

Kirk batting 3rd today?

Yes

[Spanky99]

[Spanky99]

It wasn't Gage who was activated... it's Thornton?

 

[max silver]

The lack of left handed power is another massive hole, not addressed at the deadline. Like was Merriweather the best outfield depth available ? There were no leftie hitters available of any kind ? ItÂ’s not hard to upgrade over Biggio and even that Atkins failed. It had better be addressed in the off season.

 

I'll go ahead and assume you mean Merrifield. I caught one of my earlier posts using Merryweather instead.

 

It seems as though the front office has been trying to address the lack of left handed balance in the lineup over the last few offseasons but have come up empty handed. A deal with Michael Brantley was all but finished until he changed his mind at the last minute. The team was a reported finalist for Corey Seager but the Rangers ended up paying him $325 million, hard pass to signing Seager to that kind of boat anchor contract. They were also linked to Schwarber who ended up taking big dollars to sign with the Phillies. They were also linked to Jose Ramirez as well this offseason, that's the missed opportunity that stings the most.

[DigitalRock]

And it would be justified. Its pretty much make or break for him IMO, and I respect that he didn’t pillage the farm to save his job

 

Yep, last year the pen cost them a post season birth, imagine how valuable that experience would have been for the core. Had long enough to improve the pen and get a lefty bat.

[Jonn]

I would like to think if Ian Happ was actually available he would have been moved and the Jays would have been all over it. Its not like the Cubs had to move him.

[max silver]

It wasn't Gage who was activated... it's Thornton?

 

 

I imagine the front office wants Thornton in case the need to cover multiple innings arises. The pen has really been taxed over the last few games of this series.

[goldbug103]

It wasn't Gage who was activated... it's Thornton?

 

 

I’m talking about some less known names. Something must have been available somewhere JBJ from Boston ? It’s a clear disadvantage to have 0 impactful bats hitting from the left side. Teams with hard throwing right handed relief pitchers throwing sliders away have no trouble dealing with this lineup. This and Berrios sucking (or more generally the lack of starting depth) really mean that this is not our year. Heck, my guess is that Baltimore passes us in the standings. Hope that I’m wrong though.

[max silver]

I’m talking about some less known names. Something must have been available somewhere JBJ from Boston ? It’s a clear disadvantage to have 0 impactful bats hitting from the left side. Teams with hard throwing right handed relief pitchers throwing sliders away have no trouble dealing with this lineup. This and Berrios sucking (or more generally the lack of starting depth) really mean that this is not our year. Heck, my guess is that Baltimore passes us in the standings. Hope that I’m wrong though.

 

Jackie Bradley Jr. is the complete antithesis of an impact bat. His bat is so weak that he's subreplacement for the last few seasons. The Jays already have a no bat defensive replacement available off the bench in Bradley Zimmer.

[jaysblue]

Yep, last year the pen cost them a post season birth, imagine how valuable that experience would have been for the core. Had long enough to improve the pen and get a lefty bat.

 

Yeah my issue with the Blue Jays front office is the inability to improve the bullpen during the offseason after experiencing what they did in 2021 like you said. Even still, they waited right until the trade deadline to acquire Anthony Bass and Zach Pop. Any upgrades to the BP would have been nice in June if they were available. The team IMO hasn't really focused on bullpen depth and roster depth at all. It's like they completely avoided it which during a 162 game season can come back and bite you hard if injuries pop up. Outside of the starting 9 in the lineup and the top 4 or 5 in the rotation, the rest of this roster is extremely thin.

[jaysblue]

And it would be justified. Its pretty much make or break for him IMO, and I respect that he didn’t pillage the farm to save his job

 

It wouldn't be justified. A team with this young core and talent shouldn't be missing the Postseason by one or two games. It's unacceptable. The Blue Jays are never going to have a core with bats like Vladdy, Bo, Teo, Lourdes, Springer, Chapman, Kirk, and Jansen or a top rotation with Gausman, Berrios and Manoah every season for the next decade. Windows in baseball aren't open long. Players get injured, leave via free agency or trade, regress, and start becoming too expensive via arbitration or free agency. The Blue Jays have a two-three window for winning a World Series with this current core, lets be realistic.

 

You want to win a World Series with Vlad, Bo, and Manoah when they're under club control and not costing the club huge dollars. Once they start costing the Jays huge dollars after 2024 or 2025, will be difficult to address other areas on the roster.

 

I don't think most posters wanted Atkins to pillage the farm this trade deadline. We wanted him to make the roster upgrades that helped the Jays make the postseason. Like Terminator said, if the Jays suffer an injury to Gausman or Manoah, they'll have a huge uphill battle the rest of the way. The Blue Jays should not be missing the Postseason two seasons in a row with this core, especially with an extra team making it in this season. Every game counts and the Jays can't be throwing away games because they're starting a pitcher like Thomas Hatch for three or four games down the stretch.

[Count35]

Sorry I want to preface this by saying I’m venting! Atkins should be fired. Riu was getting smacked around last year before he got hurt. Should have traded or released him and saved $20mil. 10 of it could have gone to Gaus then the other 10 to Ray or another starter.

 

Bo is NOT the same player. I’ve said it all year long. Tabby mentioned he’s just above average this season. Kirk just broke an 0-22 skid! His trade value was as high as it could have been at the All Star break. A package of/or Bo and Kirk, with others could have tried to pry Soto from the Nats!

 

Soto with Vlad plus Gurriel, Chapman, Espinal et al might have been better than what we’re seeing currently.

 

Soto could be a generational talent! Along with Vlad this teams window would get bigger. All just my opinion of course.

[Abomination]

Sorry I want to preface this by saying I’m venting! Atkins should be fired. Riu was getting smacked around last year before he got hurt. Should have traded or released him and saved $20mil. 10 of it could have gone to Gaus then the other 10 to Ray or another starter.

 

You don't save the money on a guaranteed contract by releasing the player. You still have to pay them. Who do you think would have taken him on in a trade?

[Spanky99]

Sorry I want to preface this by saying I’m venting! Atkins should be fired. Riu was getting smacked around last year before he got hurt. Should have traded or released him and saved $20mil. 10 of it could have gone to Gaus then the other 10 to Ray or another starter.

 

Bo is NOT the same player. I’ve said it all year long. Tabby mentioned he’s just above average this season. Kirk just broke an 0-22 skid! His trade value was as high as it could have been at the All Star break. A package of/or Bo and Kirk, with others could have tried to pry Soto from the Nats!

 

Soto with Vlad plus Gurriel, Chapman, Espinal et al might have been better than what we’re seeing currently.

 

Soto could be a generational talent! Along with Vlad this teams window would get bigger. All just my opinion of course.

 

That's not how it works. Espy, and you're mad at Bo??? Wake up, ffs's!

[Stangstag]

Sorry I want to preface this by saying I’m venting! Atkins should be fired. Riu was getting smacked around last year before he got hurt. Should have traded or released him and saved $20mil. 10 of it could have gone to Gaus then the other 10 to Ray or another starter.

 

Bo is NOT the same player. I’ve said it all year long. Tabby mentioned he’s just above average this season. Kirk just broke an 0-22 skid! His trade value was as high as it could have been at the All Star break. A package of/or Bo and Kirk, with others could have tried to pry Soto from the Nats!

 

Soto with Vlad plus Gurriel, Chapman, Espinal et al might have been better than what we’re seeing currently.

 

Soto could be a generational talent! Along with Vlad this teams window would get bigger. All just my opinion of course.

 

Lol you got me good here

[Solaxys]

 

Also keep in mind - Vladdy is 5 HRs to career 100 (T-16 days to beat Bench for 7th youngest ever; T-24 days to beat Soto for 8th youngest ever), and 9 hits to career 500.

[Ehjays]

 

Also keep in mind - Vladdy is 5 HRs to career 100 (T-16 days to beat Bench for 7th youngest ever; T-24 days to beat Soto for 8th youngest ever), and 9 hits to career 500.

 

 

Also this

 

[WryNGinger]

Also this

 

 

Wow....that's crazy! He has without doubt put in the work to be where he is. Moved from 1st to 3rd, lost weight, learned a new position...all at a very young age. Seriously bravo to him.

[max silver]

Yeah my issue with the Blue Jays front office is the inability to improve the bullpen during the offseason after experiencing what they did in 2021 like you said. Even still, they waited right until the trade deadline to acquire Anthony Bass and Zach Pop. Any upgrades to the BP would have been nice in June if they were available. The team IMO hasn't really focused on bullpen depth and roster depth at all. It's like they completely avoided it which during a 162 game season can come back and bite you hard if injuries pop up. Outside of the starting 9 in the lineup and the top 4 or 5 in the rotation, the rest of this roster is extremely thin.

 

I really don't think bullpen upgrades were available in June as there were next to no trades made at all for the entire month. Prices were already stupidly high at the deadline, I shudder to think what the cost for relief upgrades would have been prior to the deadline this season. I actually like the bench quite a bit right now. Having Biggio, Tapia, Merrifield, and Kirk when he's not catching/DH that day is actually pretty decent, especially compared to previous years. When everyone is healthy the rotation is 6 deep. Of course this depends on Kikuchi actually contributing something, but his first few starts after returning from the IL have been pretty encouraging.

[Laika]

I really don't think bullpen upgrades were available in June as there were next to no trades made at all for the entire month. Prices were already stupidly high at the deadline, I shudder to think what the cost for relief upgrades would have been prior to the deadline this season. I actually like the bench quite a bit right now. Having Biggio, Tapia, Merrifield, and Kirk when he's not catching/DH that day is actually pretty decent, especially compared to previous years. When everyone is healthy the rotation is 6 deep. Of course this depends on Kikuchi actually contributing something, but his first few starts after returning from the IL have been pretty encouraging.

 

Yeah people who wanted the Blue Jays to do MORE at the deadline are essentially saying they should have traded guys like Moreno and Tiedemann.

 

They traded Groshans, a recent top 100 prospect consensus, and Frasso, one of the hotter prospects in the system, and none of their trades were overpays vs what the rest of the market did.

 

A month ago the asking prices on some of these relievers would have probably made you faint. Teams were probably asking for Tiedemann for guys like Scott Effross and the conversations just went nowhere.

[jaysblue]

Yeah people who wanted the Blue Jays to do MORE at the deadline are essentially saying they should have traded guys like Moreno and Tiedemann.

 

They traded Groshans, a recent top 100 prospect consensus, and Frasso, one of the hotter prospects in the system, and none of their trades were overpays vs what the rest of the market did.

 

A month ago the asking prices on some of these relievers would have probably made you faint. Teams were probably asking for Tiedemann for guys like Scott Effross and the conversations just went nowhere.

 

Where did I say the Blue Jays should trade Moreno and Tiedemann for BP arms?

 

I said the Blue Jays FO should have done a better job in the offseason addressing the bullpen and roster depth so they wouldn't have been in this position. It seems like they ignored both and instead focused on the starting 9 and rotation. It's easiest adding to the bullpen and roster depth during the offseason. Not sure why they couldn't add to those areas of the roster as well during the offseason.

[Laika]

There is zero problem with position player depth. There has not been a problem with it at any point this year. And Tapia starting a bunch of games is not really a problem - all teams have players of that quality starting a big chunk of games at some point.

 

Pitching depth issues this year are a function of bad luck AND the system not producing fruit AND some unexpected underperformances (all the AAA SP depth being completely worthless) AND probably a tough offseason when it comes to attracting free agents because of border s***. I don't think it's fair to slam them.

 

I mean they addressed the bullpen at the 2021 deadline and brought in multiple controllable relievers. They did that again this deadline. In the last year they have acquired Yimi Garcia, David Phelps, Trevor Richards, Adam Cimber, Zach Pop, and Anthony Bass. Literally 6 out of the 8 RP right now are acquisitions over the last calendar year. Also the two rentals Hand (ugh) and Soria last deadline. Traded for Berrios. Signed Gausman. Signed Kikuchi (ugh). Traded for White. Traded for Strip as a forward looking move in 2020 to help for these years.

 

All they do is add, improve, in a more-often-than-not positive way. They are always deliberate and smartly adding pitching and other depth where needed.

 

I don't actually know what you complainers all want. It's like you think this is easy and there aren't 29 other teams, most of which are very competent, fighting them for every available asset.

 

Players like Trevor Richards would have projected very well in the offseason for the record. I mean even right now his xFIP is 3.98; he probably has better projections than most of the RP arms that were considered at the trade deadline. That he has LOOKED like a lost cause over a few dozen innings this year is more noise than signal and a good example of the randomness that can make fans think that teams were fatally flawed from the start when they really weren't.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Hopefully the Jays bullpen issues are mostly behind them now. They have quite a few decent relievers now, and there are several supposedly decent ones climbing the ladder and getting close to their MLB debuts.

 

Romano

Garcia

Mayza

Bass

Cimber

Pop

Richards

White

Merryweather

Pearson

 

All signed for next season at least, and then they have Juenger, Hernandez, Eisert and Spraker at AAA.

Not to mention Tiedemann and Zulueta at AA and they might have to break into the league as relievers considering the Jays entire starting rotation is under contract next season too, at this point.

[Grant77]

Hopefully the Jays bullpen issues are mostly behind them now. They have quite a few decent relievers now, and there are several supposedly decent ones climbing the ladder and getting close to their MLB debuts.

 

Romano

Garcia

Mayza

Bass

Cimber

Pop

Richards

White

Merryweather

Pearson

 

All signed for next season at least, and then they have Juenger, Hernandez, Eisert and Spraker at AAA.

Not to mention Tiedemann and Zulueta at AA and they might have to break into the league as relievers considering the Jays entire starting rotation is under contract next season too, at this point.

 

Stripling will be a free agent and Ryu will probably miss the entire season so we will certainly have an open rotation spot.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Stripling will be a free agent and Ryu will probably miss the entire season so we will certainly have an open rotation spot.

 

"Certainly"?

 

I would say maaaaaybe it's possible, but pretty far from certain.

 

I doubt the Jays stay out of the starting pitching free agent market next off season when Kikuchi is currently slated to be their #4