General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Orgfiller]

They definitely aren’t touching the top prospects like Moreno and Martinez. Tidemann is definitely moving himself into untouchable area as well if he hasn’t already.

 

A guy like Otto Lopez in a package that contains controlable reliever’s makes sense on the higher end. But I honestly think they would be able to make a deal for a package of mid tier prospects. It really depends on how the market shapes up but KC is going nowhere and everyone knows they have to move him because they won’t qualify him either.

 

There's no such thing as an untouchable pitching prospect. A guy like Manoah and that's a diff

[connorp]

Nah... post was ruined once he called Jano a flash in the pan.

 

“ssss”= small sample size Spanky lol.

If you want to take a 100+ AB sample size to say Jansen has broken out, so be it. But if someone leans on his whole 900 AB career 91 wRC+ and says sell high, leave them be

[Orgfiller]

They definitely aren’t touching the top prospects like Moreno and Martinez. Tidemann is definitely moving himself into untouchable area as well if he hasn’t already.

 

A guy like Otto Lopez in a package that contains controlable reliever’s makes sense on the higher end. But I honestly think they would be able to make a deal for a package of mid tier prospects. It really depends on how the market shapes up but KC is going nowhere and everyone knows they have to move him because they won’t qualify him either.

 

There's no such thing as an untouchable pitching prospect. A guy like Manoah and that's a different story, but someone like Tiedemann, 19 with little pro experience in the low minors, there's no point in setting unreasonable expectations/valuations until they're much further up the ladder and even then with the imminent injury risk you still always have to be willing to listen.

[Jonn]

There's no such thing as an untouchable pitching prospect. A guy like Manoah and that's a diff

 

Can’t imagine a scenario he would be moved unless it was for a star level talent. Don’t see the Jays making that kind of move. Lefty bat and adding bullpen pieces. Possibly another back end starter.

[Spanky99]

“ssss”= small sample size Spanky lol.

If you want to take a 100+ AB sample size to say Jansen has broken out, so be it. But if someone leans on his whole 900 AB career 91 wRC+ and says sell high, leave them be

 

This coming from a tool who uses a month worth of PA's for a guy who hadn't played proball in 2 years? That's f***ing rich, since June 1st last season his wRC+ has been roughly 190, ya stunned f***ing midget, leave me be, Achmed.

[bones10]

This post is dumn!

 

Jansen is a solid catcher, hence why he would be trade worthy to begin with. I just happen to think Kirk can be just as good easily, but more likely much better than him, even with Jansens recent but proportionally small success at the plate.

[Spanky99]

I know it's not perfect but according to Baseball Trade Values those 3 Royals have a combined median value of 43 million surplus. Roughly equivalent to Jansen, Groshans, and Jimenez(43.1 million). Just trying to gauge an estimate. I wouldn't do that trade.

 

That tool isn't up to date, but no way, that's too rich.

[Spanky99]

Jansen is a solid catcher, hence why he would be trade worthy to begin with. I just happen to think Kirk can be just as good easily, but more likely much better than him, even with Jansens recent but proportionally small success at the plate.

 

But you said, you no what... nevermind.

[connorp]

This coming from a tool who uses a month worth of PA's for a guy who hadn't played proball in 2 years? That's f***ing rich, since June 1st last season his wRC+ has been roughly 190, ya stunned f***ing midget, leave me be, Achmed.

 

Shameless manipulation of what would be 1 month sample of ABs for a normal player. Think of all the guys with crazy wRC+ this April. Geez bro

[Spanky99]

Shameless manipulation of what would be 1 month sample of ABs for a normal player. Think of all the guys with crazy wRC+ this April. Geez bro

 

Clown statement bro, of those 87 games he's been worth over 3 Wins, and projects to be a 2.2 Win player ROS(which I think is low), wake up or shut up. Thanks.

[Dagagad]

I don’t think you can trade a catcher like Jansen or Kirk in season as a contender. I know the rays dealt adames last year but a short stop isn’t a catcher. It’s important but they don’t deal with all the pitchers.

 

In saying that, if I HAD to trade one, I’d trade Jansen. Less control and also more injury history I think.

 

Edit: also, Kirk might be a way bigger trade chip than people let on. He’s shown he can frame, he’s way more credible as a true regular catcher than was thought before, and he can straight up hit. Plus, 4 years more of control, one at the minimum. A s*** ton of teams would be interested in that. His body is a concern but will that really break down by 28? That’s when he’s out of control.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Dagagad

[Spanky99]

I don’t think you can trade a catcher like Jansen or Kirk in season as a contender. I know the rays dealt adames last year but a short stop isn’t a catcher. It’s important but they don’t deal with all the pitchers.

 

In saying that, if I HAD to trade one, I’d trade Jansen. Less control and also more injury history I think.

 

Edit: also, Kirk might be a way bigger trade chip than people let on. He’s shown he can frame, he’s way more credible as a true regular catcher than was thought before, and he can straight up hit. Plus, 4 years more of control, one at the minimum. A s*** ton of teams would be interested in that. His body is a concern but will that really break down by 28? That’s when he’s out of control.

 

I believe Kirk's value is higher myself, but who really knows. If Kirk's getting traded it'd have to be a team with SP with at least 2 years of control. I'd rather not move either of them in this WS or bust team. If anyone gets moved, I'd believe it would be Moreno and it'd likely be a package for a Top SP. This team has the bats, and pitching is massive in the PS.

[Dagagad]

I believe Kirk's value is higher myself, but who really knows. If Kirk's getting traded it'd have to be a team with SP with at least 2 years of control. I'd rather not move either of them in this WS or bust team. If anyone gets moved, I'd believe it would be Moreno and it'd likely be a package for a Top SP. This team has the bats, and pitching is massive in the PS.

 

I think if it came down to it, I’d just keep Moreno down and put off a decision until the off-season. Injuries could change that calculus of course.

[Spanky99]

I think if it came down to it, I’d just keep Moreno down and put off a decision until the off-season. Injuries could change that calculus of course.

 

And therein lies, what does Ross Atkins do. Hah!

[Spanky99]

He's kinda crap, but he doesn't have to be added to the 40 man for a few seasons. So it's a lot of control and maybe he finds something before we have to cut him loose. Odds are he's nothing, but so far he's having a better time in his second go around at A+.

 

His grades on the bat seem fairly good, problem is he's slow kind of old for the level, but that's the pandemic's fault *shakes fist*. If his power plays up there's a minute chance he can play in the show, the ole lightning in a bottle. Not a bad pickup for Borucki, like Jays24, I had high hopes too after that '18 season. Such a tease, too many injuries has him in flux, doubt the M's can fix him.

 

Keenan performed all three years at Ole Miss, slashing .306/.420/.550 during his career there. His performance makes him a fairly stable kind of prospect, a low-variance corner role-playing sort. He played third base in college but is listed at 250 pounds and while he is still at the hot corner, he will likely only be passable there (if that) and projects to play more 1B/DH in pro ball. His prospect stock is tied heavily to his statistical performance. (Fall Instructional League)

[Jimcanuck]

The thing about catchers is they break down.

 

I hope Moreno is up soon and shows he can handle MLB pitching. Would have no issue with Kirk being moved for good pitching. Miami has s*** catching in the org, and a wealth of pitching.

[Spanky99]

This overlay is amazing...

 

[THANOS]

The thing about catchers is they break down.

 

I hope Moreno is up soon and shows he can handle MLB pitching. Would have no issue with Kirk being moved for good pitching. Miami has s*** catching in the org, and a wealth of pitching.

 

Kirk for Max Meyer.

 

Would we do it and would Miami do it.

 

Meyer is unproven in the majors but he's already in AAA. Could finish his season in AAA and come up and help us in the BP for September and into the Playoffs.

 

Then in 2023, he's in the rotation.

[Jimcanuck]

Kirk for Max Meyer.

 

Would we do it and would Miami do it.

 

Meyer is unproven in the majors but he's already in AAA. Could finish his season in AAA and come up and help us in the BP for September and into the Playoffs.

 

Then in 2023, he's in the rotation.

 

Prefer the 6'5" Cabrera to the 6'0' Meyer

 

Think the Jays would have to add a minor second piece, a lower level interesting guy, for Miami to do it

[Laika]

Kirk isn't Miami's style. They have been going after tooled up youngsters

[Jimcanuck]

Kirk isn't Miami's style. They have been going after tooled up youngsters

 

Those types are rarely a C.

[Laika]

They'd want Moreno

 

He's a young Realmuto

[Laika]

They'd want Moreno

 

He's a young Realmuto

[Eat My Shatkins]

I doubt the Jays are itching to make any big moves right now

 

All 9 starting regulars are + fWAR (some just barely, but they're trending up), and some of them are just now starting to hit. Even Biggio is now +0.1 fWAR

Meanwhile Moreno and Groshans are seasoning up nicely down in AAA, Orelvis probably joins them before the season is done

 

Gausman and Manoah are nails right now

Kikuchi has been real solid since the start of May

Berrios hopefully turned a corner yesterday, and we all know he has what it takes to be at least a solid #3 or #4, if not more

Sucks about Ryu, but Strip has been solid covering for him, and Pearson is getting close as well

 

Not many teams can boast that kind of starting position player or starting pitching depth, with several of them underperforming so far it's probably only going to bet better with nicer weather and a weaker schedule

 

 

The only real weak spots IMO are the bench OFs and a couple BP arms could probably be upgraded, but none of these upgrades would cost you Kirk or Moreno

And the BP upgrades might just come from within as the season progresses, so need to trade for them at all

 

All that, and the only free agents at seasons end are Phelps and Stripling

 

IMO the FO can just sit back and watch how it plays out without any fear of a 1 year window closing on them, especially knowing there are probably still some stars coming up through the system as we speak

[Jimcanuck]

They'd want Moreno

 

He's a young Realmuto

 

Isn't his speed rated average @ 5'11" and 22 yrs old? I don't see Realmuto.

[connorp]

Isn't his speed rated average @ 5'11" and 22 yrs old? I don't see Realmuto.

 

Don’t be such a stickler Jim. Athletic doesn’t just mean speed

[Jimcanuck]

I doubt the Jays are itching to make any big moves right now

 

All 9 starting regulars are + fWAR (some just barely, but they're trending up), and some of them are just now starting to hit. Even Biggio is now +0.1 fWAR

Meanwhile Moreno and Groshans are seasoning up nicely down in AAA, Orelvis probably joins them before the season is done

 

Gausman and Manoah are nails right now

Kikuchi has been real solid since the start of May

Berrios hopefully turned a corner yesterday, and we all know he has what it takes to be at least a solid #3 or #4, if not more

Sucks about Ryu, but Strip has been solid covering for him, and Pearson is getting close as well

 

Not many teams can boast that kind of starting position player or starting pitching depth, with several of them underperforming so far it's probably only going to bet better with nicer weather and a weaker schedule

 

 

The only real weak spots IMO are the bench OFs and a couple BP arms could probably be upgraded, but none of these upgrades would cost you Kirk or Moreno

And the BP upgrades might just come from within as the season progresses, so need to trade for them at all

 

All that, and the only free agents at seasons end are Phelps and Stripling

 

IMO the FO can just sit back and watch how it plays out without any fear of a 1 year window closing on them, especially knowing there are probably still some stars coming up through the system as we speak

 

The Jays had weak SP depth before Ryu was lost for, presumably, the season. At this point, an SP is a critical need along with a high leverage reliever.

[Jimcanuck]

Don’t be such a stickler Jim. Athletic doesn’t just mean speed

 

Maybe you missed the 5'11" (plus 200 lbs) and 22 yrs old part. There's no way Moreno has anywhere close to the 25-26 yr old Realmuto speed when he hits that age.

 

Chances are the Jays moved him from middle infield to catcher based on his body type and expectations he would become pudgy and slow.

[Eat My Shatkins]

The Jays had weak SP depth before Ryu was lost for, presumably, the season. At this point, an SP is a critical need along with a high leverage reliever.

 

Critical need?

 

Disagree

 

When you're trotting out Gausman/Manoah/Kikuchi/Berrios/Stripling along with the offense we have, adding another quality SP is very far from critical IMO

 

However it would be nice if Hatch/Kay/Francis/Allgeyer weren't sucking ass down in AAA, but I'd rather give Maximo a look if needed before spending big to get another starter right now.

[Jimcanuck]

Critical need?

 

Disagree

 

When you're trotting out Gausman/Manoah/Kikuchi/Berrios/Stripling along with the offense we have, adding another quality SP is very far from critical IMO

 

However it would be nice if Hatch/Kay/Francis weren't sucking ass down in AAA, but I'd rather give Maximo a look if needed before spending big to get another starter right now.

 

Teams use an average of 10 different SP over the course of a season. Stripling is best used out of the bullpen and as SP depth.