GDT (3/3) | Blue Jays (53-48) vs. Royals (45-58) | August 1 — 1:07 PM

[Stangstag]

Holy f*** guys he's 18th since '17... he's an Ace of our staff! There's only a handful of elite Aces, he's in the next tier period, take it and ride. Also, f*** off with ERA. Look at the leaderboard since '17

 

LOOK>>>>>>> https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=&startdate=&enddate=&page=1_30

 

So Berrios, Wheeler, MIKE f***ING MINOR, etc, are better than Hyun Jin Ryu??

 

Stop

[Spanky99]

So Berrios, Wheeler, MIKE f***ING MINOR, etc, are better than Hyun Jin Ryu??

 

Stop

 

So fWAR... is selective now? C'mon you've missed the point. There's variables that would change that, but it's better than your guys opinions.

 

Berrios>> our Rotation, that was the point of this trade, FFS'

 

Your opinion <<< Data!

[Laika]

So Berrios, Wheeler, MIKE f***ING MINOR, etc, are better than Hyun Jin Ryu??

 

Stop

 

Maybe not Minor but Wheeler certainly is. Look at that guy's numbers right now.

 

Hard to compare Ryu to Berrios because of the leagues they were in.

 

Pitching a lot of innings is also part of being great and that's a weakness for Ryu.

[Spanky99]

Maybe not Minor but Wheeler certainly is. Look at that guy's numbers right now.

 

Hard to compare Ryu to Berrios because of the leagues they were in.

 

Pitching a lot of innings is also part of being great and that's a weakness for Ryu.

 

It's f***ing annoying, seriously.

[DigitalRock]

He’s 100% not an ace IMO. “Ace” should be reserved for starters who have pitched at least 1-2 full seasons with sub 3 ERA

 

This is ridiculous , halladay had numerous seasons with an ERA over 3, and has a career era close to berrios...do not use ERA man lol.

[Laika]

My point stands. Hes a #2 on a good team. I don’t understand why people are arguing this point. This is a good thing lol. Just don’t tell me he’s in the class of the truly elite Starters in this league. Hes not.

 

Jonn = right

[Laika]

This is ridiculous , halladay had numerous seasons with an ERA over 3, and has a career era close to berrios...do not use ERA man lol.

 

IMO there are two ways to be an "Ace".

 

1 is to be able to produce truly elite seasons, 7 WAR+, and to stay moderately healthy so you do that from time to time.

 

2 is the workhorse model where the guy just banks like 4+ WAR every year consistently. I'm thinking David Price in his 20s.

 

Berrios doesn't fit either model. He's like the workhorse version but just a hair shy on talent.

[Virgil_Hiltz]

I think we are missing the point here. It doesn't matter if the Jays pitchers are aligning with what expectations are for being an ace. They probably just need to

match the other pitcher and "hopefully" the Jays offence doesn't stagnate.

"IF" the Jays do make a playoffs series Im more than ok having Ray and Berrios matching up with their #2 and 3 starters.

 

I know Im putting the cart before the horse but isnt that the long range plan for the team?

[saskjayfan]

I think we are missing the point here. It doesn't matter if the Jays pitchers are aligning with what expectations are for being an ace. They probably just need to

match the other pitcher and "hopefully" the Jays offence doesn't stagnate.

"IF" the Jays do make a playoffs series Im more than ok having Ray and Berrios matching up with their #2 and 3 starters.

 

I know Im putting the cart before the horse but isnt that the long range plan for the team?

 

The big disadvantage of the Wild Card is you have to use your best starter and even if you win you might need 4 starters because the next series starts right away. I feel pretty good about Manoah battling in the playoffs. Kid just seems to thrive off the moment. This is going to be an exciting 2 months.

[AI9764]

Berrios is not an ace. But Berrios is a good starter. Mystery solved .

[Spanky99]

Jonn = right

 

That's correct, what he initially said was wrong.

[Spanky99]

IMO there are two ways to be an "Ace".

 

1 is to be able to produce truly elite seasons, 7 WAR+, and to stay moderately healthy so you do that from time to time.

 

2 is the workhorse model where the guy just banks like 4+ WAR every year consistently. I'm thinking David Price in his 20s.

 

Berrios doesn't fit either model. He's like the workhorse version but just a hair shy on talent.

 

Yer dumn... he's in the next tier, easy.

[Laika]

Yer dumn... he's in the next tier, easy.

 

Right, he's a solid SP2. But it doesn't matter like the above posters say. Toronto is good. They basically have three #2 starters in Ryu, Berrios, and Ray. Then a rookie who could be that good in Manoah and a pair of veterans in Matz and Stripling who are probably better than 5th starters. It's a good group.

[Spanky99]

Right, he's a solid SP2. But it doesn't matter like the above posters say. Toronto is good. They basically have three #2 starters in Ryu, Berrios, and Ray. Then a rookie who could be that good in Manoah and a pair of veterans in Matz and Stripling who are probably better than 5th starters. It's a good group.

 

Meh... 18th since '17 tells you enough, it's Berrios/Ray and Ryu, solid as f***.

 

It is a good group.

[DigitalRock]

IMO there are two ways to be an "Ace".

 

1 is to be able to produce truly elite seasons, 7 WAR+, and to stay moderately healthy so you do that from time to time.

 

2 is the workhorse model where the guy just banks like 4+ WAR every year consistently. I'm thinking David Price in his 20s.

 

Berrios doesn't fit either model. He's like the workhorse version but just a hair shy on talent.

 

I am not debating that, just saying just using ERA as a metric is dumb.

[Spanky99]

I am not debating that, just saying just using ERA as a metric is dumb.

 

He was speaking to moi, he's dumn.

[Krylian]

Dolis is 33 years old, debuted in 2011 and was signed out of Japan. Of course he's out of options, did you expect him to have any?

 

We have the option of releasing him

[TwistedLogic]

They showed Vladdy duct taped to a railing in the dugout too

 

We were sitting behind and to the right of the dugout so we had no idea that happened until we got notifications from MLB.TV, lmao.

 

I love the personality on this team.

[Sammy225]

It’s really hard not to like this team. They are fun, really Semien seems like the most serious and he comes off as a good team guy.

[connorp]

It’s really hard not to like this team. They are fun, really Semien seems like the most serious and he comes off as a good team guy.

 

Dude is on a mission. He’ll probably smile a little more when/if he gets that $100m contract in the bank

[BlueRocky]

We were sitting behind and to the right of the dugout so we had no idea that happened until we got notifications from MLB.TV, lmao.

 

I love the personality on this team.

[Olerud363]

Dude is on a mission. HeÂ’ll probably smile a little more when/if he gets that $100m contract in the bank

 

It will be interesting to see how he is valued. He is going to finish 2021 just a tad behind George Springer as a 31 year old (Springer was 26 fWAR, Semien with a hot finish could be at 25).

 

I am guessing 5 100 is about right... on the other hand his numbers outside of 2019/2021 just look blah... as opposed to Springer whos numbers looked good every year. And when I say "looked good", I mean looked good to Tabby.

 

Tabby on Springer (any year) - an elite player, you know what you are going get. 30 Homers, drives in runs, scores runs, year in year out.

Tabby on Semien (2019/2021) - he's becoming one of those guys. 30 homers, driving in runs, scoring runs, he's up with the big boys this year.

Tabby on Semien (other years) - He's only hitting .230 but he's got a bit of pop. He'll get you 15 homers, maybe 20. He's not bad in the field either.

 

Semien is good on the fangraphs but dips below Tabby 'elite' level many years. How will the market view him?

[BlueRocky]

Eli Morgan at Rogers Centre