GDT (3/3) | Blue Jays (53-48) vs. Royals (45-58) | August 1 — 1:07 PM

[InvincibleTiger]

Espyyy

[Jays24]

Reese has made some good contact on his outs. Feels like Jansen should spend rest of the season in AAA and come back up in September.

[Jonn]

Ok I decided. If you guys want to pretend Jose Berriors is an Ace, Elite, among the best Starters in Baseball go right ahead. I won’t stop you : ). Who am I to rain on your parade! You’re all cute.

[Spanky99]

Richard Lovelady....now that's a name.

 

Dick Lovelady... dude was born a porn star!

[dineke]

Ok I decided. If you guys want to pretend Jose Berriors is an Ace, Elite, among the best Starters in Baseball go right ahead. I won’t stop you : ). Who am I to rain on your parade! You’re all cute.

 

He's a very good pitcher to me but not elite. Like in the Stroman tier which makes me think they should've just kept him so we didnt have to lose Martin. Maybe his attitude was just too much for shatkins... oh well.

[DigitalRock]

He swung, stop whining bud.

[DigitalRock]

He's a very good pitcher to me but not elite. Like in the Stroman tier which makes me think they should've just kept him so we didnt have to lose Martin. Maybe his attitude was just too much for shatkins... oh well.

 

For one you are comparing a team on the downturn rebuilding that did not want a big payroll, till now, apples and oranges. Maybe they tired of his attitude as well.

[BlueRocky]

Manoah/Berrios back to back is not ideal. They are too similar.

 

They’re both studs?

[Jonn]

He's a very good pitcher to me but not elite. Like in the Stroman tier which makes me think they should've just kept him so we didnt have to lose Martin. Maybe his attitude was just too much for shatkins... oh well.

 

This is very similar to how I’m viewing it as well. Stroman was a bit much. It seemed like people either really liked him or didn’t like him at all. I felt he was very smug for no reason. The type of person who was angry at the world for no apparent reason.

[JaysAllMighty]

Love this actor... LOL

 

[Jays24]

Haha who saw that fan sticking up the middle finger?

[metafour]

Pretty much lol. That’s the theme on Twitter as well. The intial reaction was hate and now it’s everyone talking themselves into Austin Martin having zero power and SWR at 20 has lost his command and won’t throw over 92 MPH ever again.

 

Who's talking themselves into anything? This isn't Blue Jays fans talking themselves into a narrative; it's literally being collaborated by outside baseball writers who are cycling reports/information from other teams' evaluator's as well as in-person evaluations. These people have absolutely no reason to "cover" for the Blue Jays. Both players we traded have empirically been moved down prospect lists; with Martin dropping all the way to #59 on Fangraphs' rankings.

 

Of course Blue Jays fans were initially "shocked" and mad, but that's because as fans we generally Stan for our prospects and look at things in the most optimal light possible. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Austin Martin has no chance of correcting his flaws, but the general stance that we'll naturally take as fans is to gloss them over while they're here. To me the scary part with him is that the two things that literally popped up as critiques pre-draft, which is what caused him to drop to us, actually look to not only be legitimate - but they appear even worse than initially hoped. Fangraphs says that he's not even getting good reviews defensively in CF with a below-average arm and average range due to his lack of speed, and he's obviously not a SS or 3B. So what is he now, a 2B and/or rotational piece between CF/2B/LF? At the plate he appears to require a swing change. This isn't an impossibility and he's obviously talented enough to make it work, but a current slap hitter with no defensive position where he projects as more than average is a profile that can go downhill really really quickly. I also found it very interesting that Fangraphs noted that evaluators were pointing out that he wasn't swinging at enough pitches and that he was playing himself into too many poor hitters counts.

 

With Simeon Woods-Richardson, I've always felt that he was a guy who we tried to hype into more than he was. He was a mid-rotation upside when we traded for him with non-elite stuff, and he's since then declined. His age is nice, but he's physically maxed out and he apparently still can't spin a breaking ball that projects as more than average to fring above-average. The lack of control he's shown this season is confusing and worrying, because this was actually his only true standout "tool", as are reports that his velocity and stuff in general have backed up.

 

So really, they traded two guys from an elite farm system that have bigger question marks today than they did coming into the season. Of course there was an initial "shock" of trading a guy we just drafted 5th overall and outrage surrounding that, but the reason why you've seen a change in attitude is because we've had time for information to come in which suggests that this really isn't a "shocking" a package as we initially thought.

[DigitalRock]

LOL at the fan with the middle finger.

[DigitalRock]

Who's talking themselves into anything? This isn't Blue Jays fans talking themselves into a narrative; it's literally being collaborated by outside baseball writers who are cycling reports/information from other teams' evaluator's as well as in-person evaluations. These people have absolutely no reason to "cover" for the Blue Jays. Both players we traded have empirically been moved down prospect lists; with Martin dropping all the way to #59 on Fangraphs' rankings.

 

Of course Blue Jays fans were initially "shocked" and mad, but that's because as fans we generally Stan for our prospects and look at things in the most optimal light possible. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Austin Martin has no chance of correcting his flaws, but the general stance that we'll naturally take as fans is to gloss them over while they're here. To me the scary part with him is that the two things that literally popped up as critiques pre-draft, which is what caused him to drop to us, actually look to not only be legitimate - but they appear even worse than initially hoped. Fangraphs says that he's not even getting good reviews defensively in CF with a below-average arm and average range due to his lack of speed, and he's obviously not a SS or 3B. So what is he now, a 2B and/or rotational piece between CF/2B/LF? At the plate he appears to require a swing change. This isn't an impossibility and he's obviously talented enough to make it work, but a current slap hitter with no defensive position where he projects as more than average is a profile that can go downhill really really quickly. I also found it very interesting that Fangraphs noted that evaluators were pointing out that he wasn't swinging at enough pitches and that he was playing himself into too many poor hitters counts.

 

With Simeon Woods-Richardson, I've always felt that he was a guy who we tried to hype into more than he was. He was a mid-rotation upside when we traded for him with non-elite stuff, and he's since then declined. His age is nice, but he's physically maxed out and he apparently still can't spin a breaking ball that projects as more than average to fring above-average. The lack of control he's shown this season is confusing and worrying, because this was actually his only true standout "tool", as are reports that his velocity and stuff in general have backed up.

 

So really, they traded two guys from an elite farm system that have bigger question marks today than they did coming into the season. Of course there was an initial "shock" of trading a guy we just drafted 5th overall and outrage surrounding that, but the reason why you've seen a change in attitude is because we've had time for information to come in which suggests that this really isn't a "shocking" a package as we initially thought.

 

Good luck explaining nuance and context with Jonn, hope you do better then me, I failed lol.

[dineke]

For one you are comparing a team on the downturn rebuilding that did not want a big payroll, till now, apples and oranges. Maybe they tired of his attitude as well.

 

But they spent big in the offseason right after. Rourke had like the same salary I think.

[Jonn]

Very solid debut.

[EdwinsParrot]

gj berrios

[JFD]

He's a very good pitcher to me but not elite. Like in the Stroman tier which makes me think they should've just kept him so we didnt have to lose Martin. Maybe his attitude was just too much for shatkins... oh well.

 

Also a proven playoff performer. Too bad he's a colossal douche

[DigitalRock]

But they spent big in the offseason right after. Rourke had like the same salary I think.

 

Roark is spending big? LOL. I think it's clear they wanted to move on from Stroman and that group, will the fans move on?

[Spanky99]

Haha who saw that fan sticking up the middle finger?

 

I think that's the guy in Twistedlogic's section, lol.

[King]

Seeing a lot of people not wearing masks in those first two rows behind home plate there.

[Jonn]

Who's talking themselves into anything? This isn't Blue Jays fans talking themselves into a narrative; it's literally being collaborated by outside baseball writers who are cycling reports/information from other teams' evaluator's as well as in-person evaluations. These people have absolutely no reason to "cover" for the Blue Jays. Both players we traded have empirically been moved down prospect lists; with Martin dropping all the way to #59 on Fangraphs' rankings.

 

Of course Blue Jays fans were initially "shocked" and mad, but that's because as fans we generally Stan for our prospects and look at things in the most optimal light possible. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Austin Martin has no chance of correcting his flaws, but the general stance that we'll naturally take as fans is to gloss them over while they're here. To me the scary part with him is that the two things that literally popped up as critiques pre-draft, which is what caused him to drop to us, actually look to not only be legitimate - but they appear even worse than initially hoped. Fangraphs says that he's not even getting good reviews defensively in CF with a below-average arm and average range due to his lack of speed, and he's obviously not a SS or 3B. So what is he now, a 2B and/or rotational piece between CF/2B/LF? At the plate he appears to require a swing change. This isn't an impossibility and he's obviously talented enough to make it work, but a current slap hitter with no defensive position where he projects as more than average is a profile that can go downhill really really quickly. I also found it very interesting that Fangraphs noted that evaluators were pointing out that he wasn't swinging at enough pitches and that he was playing himself into too many poor hitters counts.

 

With Simeon Woods-Richardson, I've always felt that he was a guy who we tried to hype into more than he was. He was a mid-rotation upside when we traded for him with non-elite stuff, and he's since then declined. His age is nice, but he's physically maxed out and he apparently still can't spin a breaking ball that projects as more than average to fring above-average. The lack of control he's shown this season is confusing and worrying, because this was actually his only true standout "tool", as are reports that his velocity and stuff in general have backed up.

 

So really, they traded two guys from an elite farm system that have bigger question marks today than they did coming into the season. Of course there was an initial "shock" of trading a guy we just drafted 5th overall and outrage surrounding that, but the reason why you've seen a change in attitude is because we've had time for information to come in which suggests that this really isn't a "shocking" a package as we initially thought.

 

You make very solid points. But I was merely agreeing with another poster based on the over dramatic reaction of the fan base. Which is ultimately true. We have no idea how this trade will work out. What we do know is Berriors is good now. And we have him for a year and a couple months. Lets hope it results in a playoff appearance or 2.

[Ryu In My House]

I know it's just the Royals, but I am getting really excited for the rest of the season. I am almost...optimistic (gasp!)

[Stangstag]

Seeing a lot of people not wearing masks in those first two rows behind home plate there.

 

Yeah well how are they gonna tell people to keep their masks on if they’re gonna sell drinks and food still? You can’t really enforce it

[Spanky99]

Berrios was good when he settled in, debut jitters, etc... *golf claps*

[Jonn]

Seeing a lot of people not wearing masks in those first two rows behind home plate there.

 

Once people remove their mask to eat or drink something. People feel they no longer have to wear them for the rest of the time. I don’t know how strictly they are enforcing the mask wearing. Most of the fans are also side by side. I was under the impression that everyone was going to be spread out.

[DigitalRock]

Nicky Lopez is such a Royals player.

[Laika]

He's a very good pitcher to me but not elite. Like in the Stroman tier which makes me think they should've just kept him so we didnt have to lose Martin. Maybe his attitude was just too much for shatkins... oh well.

 

Stroman would not have even been under control for this season IIRC.

[dineke]

Roark is spending big? LOL. I think it's clear they wanted to move on from Stroman and that group, will the fans move on?

 

Him along with Ryu. I'm over stroman once the trade happened.

[dineke]

Stroman would not have even been under control for this season IIRC.

 

Yeah probably had an outlandish asking price too in extension talks. I've come to terms with the berrios trade.