Trade Deadline Rumors and Discussion Thread 2021

[AMS528]

Trade worked out for both sides, solid deal all around, funny thing Boyd was the secondary piece. Same goes with Musgrove and Desclafani in their deals.

 

I just wrote this in another thread, but it is pretty interesting how some of the best drafted pitchers during the AA era were non-heralded secondary guys that were traded away. Kendall Graveman falls into that too since he wound up being the best piece for Oakland in the Donaldson deal.

[AMS528]

 

That's a pretty reasonable looking deal if we keep winning games and look like we're in it. Our lineup would be an absurd murderers row at that point. Springer/Bichette/Vlad/Cruz/Semien/Teo/Kirk/Biggio with one of Grichuk or Gurriel is a nightmare.

Edited June 25, 2021 by AMS528

[Laika]

Where'd you get that evaluation tool, brosoff?

 

It's proprietary. If you subscribe to my newsletter for $50 USD / month I'll give you access to the Discord

[AMS528]

It's proprietary. If you subscribe to my newsletter for $50 USD / month I'll give you access to the Discord

 

You should set up a website to let people subscribe to it. More funds that way. Could have a snappy name too, like tradevaluesbaseball.com or valuestradebaseball.com or valuesbaseballtrade.com. There might be a more intuitive website title there but it's not coming to me right now.

[Spanky99]

It's proprietary. If you subscribe to my newsletter for $50 USD / month I'll give you access to the Discord

 

Oof!

[Spanky99]

He created it. It was shared to everyone in the DDL by email a couple of Fridays ago. You were on the message, didn't you get it?

 

Nope, might've ended up in junk mail.

[The Cats Ass]

Oof!

 

I'll let you use my login info for $20.

[Spanky99]

I just wrote this in another thread, but it is pretty interesting how some of the best drafted pitchers during the AA era were non-heralded secondary guys that were traded away. Kendall Graveman falls into that too since he wound up being the best piece for Oakland in the Donaldson deal.

 

Yeah, just goes to show the variance in prospects is quite wide.

[glory]

Every single one of these player development failures occurred under different front office regimes, under largely antiquated training methods and with an underequipped dilapidated training complex. This organization under Mark Shapiro has been striving to modernize the entire minor league system and overhauling every single aspect in order to maximize the potential of every single player in the system. Players are being highly encouraged to spend their winters in Dunedin in order to utilize the new developmental complex. Whether it's making strides in practice routines to practice at full game speed, or utilizing nutritionists and chefs to maximize nutrition, or utilizing the pitching and hitting labs in the developmental complex, we are starting to see this new minor league system really starting to bear fruit. This season alone we have seen breakouts from players like Gabriel Moreno, Kevin Smith, Samad Taylor, etc., and I think we will continue to see more and more success stories like this over time. Obviously there won't be spots for all of these players on the Jays, but this system is well primed to produce a talent pipeline going forward to both feed the Jays with quality inexpensive talent, and to function as trade currency for filling holes on the major league roster as required.

 

In the last few seasons alone we have seen prospect graduations/success stories in players like Bo Bichette, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Cavan Biggio, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Alec Manoah, Alejandro Kirk etc., and there are more players in the upper and lower levels of the minor leagues making strides towards becoming effective major league contributors. I think the days of lamenting about all of the Blue Jays players ultimately becoming busts is a thing of the past.

 

Agreed. The player development under AA was awful, and Ricciardi's regime wasn't good at drafting period, so not sure we can use previous Jays prospects as a reference point. The Shatkins regime has been excellent at player development so far, and while it is certainly possible that players like Martin and Groshans could become busts down the line, it wouldn't be because of lack of effort by the organization. They have invested quite a bit in player development. I'd trust top prospects panning out more now than I would have 5-10 years ago.

 

I think trading pitching prospects (especially if established pitching is coming back) is the way to go. I just don't trust pitching prospects, and I'd rather have a young position player core and old rotation anyway.

[Spanky99]

I'll let you use my login info for $20.

 

Alright, you mofo's got me, lol.

[AMS528]

Alright, you mofo's got me, lol.

 

You should set up a website to let people subscribe to it. More funds that way. Could have a snappy name too, like tradevaluesbaseball.com or valuestradebaseball.com or valuesbaseballtrade.com. There might be a more intuitive website title there but it's not coming to me right now.

 

I tried to be helpful.

[Spanky99]

I tried to be helpful.

 

 

Yeah, I got it, thanks.

[TheHurl]

I tried to be helpful.

 

Fun stat

 

1 in 100 people on this board are not complete asses to Spanky.

[Ryu In My House]

 

I think I make that trade. It would hurt, but it would make 2021 really interesting. Ugh, I hate giving up these prospects I have followed for years.

[THANOS]

That's a pretty reasonable looking deal if we keep winning games and look like we're in it. Our lineup would be an absurd murderers row at that point. Springer/Bichette/Vlad/Cruz/Semien/Teo/Kirk/Biggio with one of Grichuk or Gurriel is a nightmare.

 

Yep I'd do that hands down.

 

Love Groshans, and he may turn into Donaldson in a few years, but it's hard to balk at the short term gain of that trade. Berrios for another year caps it for me.

 

Cruz would be a great leader to add to Semion and Springer as well. Yep and LGJ could learn a ton from him.

 

It's possible that Moreno gets transitioned to 3B as well, at that point. So when he's up next season, no need to find a spot for a Groshans.

[AMS528]

Yep I'd do that hands down.

 

It's possible that Moreno gets transitioned to 3B as well, at that point. So when he's up next season, no need to find a spot for a Groshans.

 

I feel like they're letting him play 3B to maximize his potential playing time down the line, but from the prospects chats it seems like the consensus is he does not need to be and should not be moved from catcher. Seems likely that if he keeps performing we wind up with Moreno/Kirk at C. Moreno can play 120 games back there with Kirk getting most of the DH time.

[TwistedLogic]

1927 Yankees (OPS+)

Babe Ruth 225

Lou Gehrig 220

Earle Combs 141

Bob Meusel 135

Tony Lazzeri 125

Pat Collins 116

 

Ironically, there is a team active right now that actually might be better than Murderer's Row at the moment.

 

The Houston Astros as a team have a f***ing 127 wRC+. That's one point higher than the 1927 Murderer's Row roster that posted the highest wRC+ of all time.

 

The Astros don't have a Ruth or Gehrig but they've had 9 Combs, Meusels and Lazzeris.

 

Correa (310 PA): 160 wRC+

Brantley (247 PA): 159 wRC+

Gurriel (293 PA): 154 wRC+

Alvarez (264 PA): 150 wRC+

Altuve (300 PA): 146 wRC+

Castro (71 PA): 137 wRC+

Toro (45 PA): 134 wRC+

Tucker (276 PA): 132 wRC+

Bregman (262 PA): 120 wRC+

Diaz (126 PA): 117 wRC+

McCormick (134 PA): 113 wRC+

[TwistedLogic]

Oh wow. I hadn't realized they had just won 5 in a row while Phillies and Braves keep losing. Changes the whole complexion of that whack as Hell division.

 

Schwarber is carrying them hard as f*** right now. He's on the second hottest short-term home run tear of all time:

 

Guy's got 12 homers in 13 games. Singlehandedly taking himself and the rest of his team off the trade block.

[Sorrow]

If Moreno's bat turns out to be legit I could see a move off C being done to get the bat in the line up for 140-150 games at a position like 3rd vs 120 at C.

 

Getting an extra 80-100 at bats out of a good bat is a big thing over the course of the season. You also tend to not see catchers age gracefully so that may be a consideration.

[TwistedLogic]

Here's one potential theory for why Schwarber is suddenly playing Major League Baseball on easy mode:

 

[The Cats Ass]

If Moreno's bat turns out to be legit I could see a move off C being done to get the bat in the line up for 140-150 games at a position like 3rd vs 120 at C.

 

Getting an extra 80-100 at bats out of a good bat is a big thing over the course of the season. You also tend to not see catchers age gracefully so that may be a consideration.

 

Let him catch 60% (3 SPs) and play the field 40% maybe some 1B/3B. Kirk can then catch the other 40%(2 SPs) and DH some. I can see us heading in the direction where a handful of our players play numerous positions, with guys getting cycled through DH.

[Spanky99]

Fun stat

 

1 in 100 people on this board are not complete asses to Spanky.

 

Rude.

[TwistedLogic]

Fun stat

 

1 in 100 people on this board are not complete asses to Spanky.

 

I'm a one percenter. Spanky seems like a good dude.

 

I definitely used to get annoyed. Not sure what happened in the years I wasn't active on here but ever since I came back earlier this season, Spanky's been awesome. Feel like he's really mellowed out and improved as a poster over time.

 

Feel like this whole forum has improved as a whole in general. Used to see every new poster get attacked and accused of being someone else before they even had a chance to integrate into the community (and to be fair, in many of those cases, they were dupes). Used to see a lot of dogpiling and bullying take place as well. Haven't seen all that happen nearly as much since returning.

[Grant77]

I'm a one percenter. Spanky seems like a good dude.

 

I definitely used to get annoyed. Not sure what happened in the years I wasn't active on here but ever since I came back earlier this season, Spanky's been awesome. Feel like he's really mellowed out and improved as a poster over time.

 

Feel like this whole forum has improved as a whole in general. Used to see every new poster get attacked and accused of being someone else before they even had a chance to integrate into the community (and to be fair, in many of those cases, they were dupes). Used to see a lot of dogpiling and bullying take place as well. Haven't seen all that happen nearly as much since returning.

 

I'm 100% pro Spanky as well. He's a great Jays fan.

[InsideThePark]

Not sure I'm all that interested in adding a top of the market type of piece. Maybe if the right deal comes by for a high end starter with some control I'd be down, but some decent relief pitching is what is needed most right now and that shouldn't cost any of our top 8 prospects.

 

Moreno, Martin and SWR are my 3 farm untouchables FWIW

 

2 or more years of control after this year, what starting pitcher does Groshans + Kloffenstein + Kevin Smith get me?

[Jimcanuck]

Spanky has done a 180 and is in my good books now. He doesn't master bait others like he used to.

[G-Snarls]

I'm def team Spanky too

[Spanky99]

Hahaha... ya big dummies, thanks!

[bendera3]

I'm 100% pro Spanky as well. He's a great Jays fan.

 

Same here. Spanks seems to Thanks 95% of peoples posts, I can't see a board where he thinks everyone is an *******.

[Krylian]

Not sure I'm all that interested in adding a top of the market type of piece. Maybe if the right deal comes by for a high end starter with some control I'd be down, but some decent relief pitching is what is needed most right now and that shouldn't cost any of our top 8 prospects.

 

Moreno, Martin and SWR are my 3 farm untouchables FWIW

 

2 or more years of control after this year, what starting pitcher does Groshans + Kloffenstein + Kevin Smith get me?

 

Not as much as you think.

 

Many still have high hopes for Groshans but there are some concerns with injury, lack of playing time over the past 2 seasons, and average production that other teams won't ignore.

Kloffenstein has been a disaster...especially with his control. His value has taken a big hit I think.

Smith has bounced back nicely but his value is that of a throw in at this point.