GDT (1/4) | Blue Jays (23-19) vs. Rays (26-19) | May 21 — 7:37 PM

[G-Snarls]

I’ll follow and keep an eye on them as always but i think I’m done watching games while he is there. I was fine with Dolis loss game before last. Don’t blame Buntoyo for that. That was just baseball. But I can’t invest hours in a game, only to watch a buffoon make bad baseball decisions that decrease our probability of winning, due to some old warped notion of the game. This team is too good and too close for that. The L clouded some amazing performances by some of our players.

 

C'mon man

 

It sucks maddeningly but you'll be watching them again soon

[Jgarza868899]

Of course he’s doubling down on it. Situation will arise again and he’ll make the same call

[TwistedLogic]

If a big league manager in 2021 is dumb enough to bunt with 2-strikes, they likely don't posses the critical thinking ability to suddenly reflect, realize that's a s*** play and completely change how they manage those situations.

 

Chances are far higher that they'll find someone else to blame and go on with business as usual, which is what happened here.

 

I don't blame Montoyo for being a f***ing troglodyte with an underdeveloped brain. I blame Atkins and Shapiro for allowing him to defile the brilliant baseball product they carefully crafted and put on the field.

 

You can not be considered an advanced front office if you think Charlie Montoyo belongs anywhere on a baseball field. That is the biggest indictment on this front office than anything else they've done.

[glory]

If a big league manager in 2021 is dumb enough to bunt with 2-strikes, they likely don't posses the critical thinking ability to suddenly reflect, realize that's a s*** play and completely change how they manage those situations.

 

Chances are far higher that they'll find someone else to blame and go on with business as usual, which is what happened here.

 

I don't blame Montoyo for being a f***ing troglodyte with an underdeveloped brain. I blame Atkins and Shapiro for allowing him to defile the brilliant baseball product they carefully crafted and put on the field.

 

You can not be considered an advanced front office if you think Charlie Montoyo belongs anywhere on a baseball field. That is the biggest indictment on this front office than anything else they've done.

 

Agreed. Montoyo was hired because this job was undesirable in 2018-19 and someone had to absorb all the L's when the team was losing. To keep him now that the team has aggressively spent money to contend and are beginning their competitive window is 100% on Atkins. Someone had to hire him in the first place, and someone is keeping him hired despite him showing no signs of being any good at the job. Time for Shatkins to step in, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Jonn]

Agreed. Montoyo was hired because this job was undesirable in 2018-19 and someone had to absorb all the L's when the team was losing. To keep him now that the team has aggressively spent money to contend and are beginning their competitive window is 100% on Atkins. Someone had to hire him in the first place, and someone is keeping him hired despite him showing no signs of being any good at the job. Time for Shatkins to step in, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Agreed. I’m really shocked he’s still here.

[Buster]

I assume they feel there is an ideal time to fire someone, and for some reason this isn't it. There is no possible way they watch that game and come to a different conclusion than this board.

 

Maybe in the off-season when it is less disruptive?

[Laika]

I assume they feel there is an ideal time to fire someone, and for some reason this isn't it. There is no possible way they watch that game and come to a different conclusion than this board.

 

Maybe in the off-season when it is less disruptive?

 

Montoyo has done this before. Evidently the front office has given him unfettered discretion over these in game decisions. He's not getting fired

[Brownie19]

When Pat Tabler criticizes your managerial decisions and he’s actually right, you know you’re a moron.

 

[Olerud363]

Agreed. IÂ’m really shocked heÂ’s still here.

 

Last time we talked about this the following article came up.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-managers-are-headed-to-the-hall-of-mediocrity/

 

However this is about the manager's total effect, like looking at the question 'does the manager make Fred McGriff play better', not just strategy.

 

The conclusion was the manger is worth a couple games maybe. However that is considering both coaching and managing so to say. So what do Charlie's dumb mistakes alone actually cost? I'm not sure. Would be interested in seeing an analysis, but need something that corrects for player performance. Like isolates the effect of bone headed bunting, from coaching (hitting tips, inspiration, etc.).

 

Make a chart

 

Manager strategy WAR (in game decisions like bunting) = X WAR

Manager coaching tips WAR (hitting tips, inspiration, making the guys better, etc.) = Y WAR

 

What are X and Y if anything?

[bones10]

Is there even any reason at all montoyo didn't tell Espinal to take a pitch and send grichuk with the infielders crashing so hard? For f*** sakes he was 2-0 at a point, even if he ends up striking out your man on third with one out.

 

He's done this before, I believe it was the exact same circumstance too, last year against the Nationals I believe.

[Terminator]

Is there even any reason at all montoyo didn't tell Espinal to take a pitch and send grichuk with the infielders crashing so hard? For f*** sakes he was 2-0 at a point, even if he ends up striking out your man on third with one out.

 

He's done this before, I believe it was the exact same circumstance too, last year against the Nationals I believe.

 

Montoyo is so predictably pro-bunt in these scenarios that he could have turn it in his favor. The Rays know he’s hellbent on bunting so they crashed harder than I’ve ever seen a team before. Espinal swinging (even a fake bunt half swing) or a steal attempt would have been a play in something they didn’t expect. But Montoyo doesn’t think like that. “We only need 1 run. Just get the bunt down.”

[DigitalRock]

I’ll follow and keep an eye on them as always but i think I’m done watching games while he is there. I was fine with Dolis loss game before last. Don’t blame Buntoyo for that. That was just baseball. But I can’t invest hours in a game, only to watch a buffoon make bad baseball decisions that decrease our probability of winning, due to some old warped notion of the game. This team is too good and too close for that. The L clouded some amazing performances by some of our players.

 

It's frustrating but watching vlad hit is worth watching alone lol.

[Spanky99]

I’ll follow and keep an eye on them as always but i think I’m done watching games while he is there. I was fine with Dolis loss game before last. Don’t blame Buntoyo for that. That was just baseball. But I can’t invest hours in a game, only to watch a buffoon make bad baseball decisions that decrease our probability of winning, due to some old warped notion of the game. This team is too good and too close for that. The L clouded some amazing performances by some of our players.

 

C'mon... give your head a shake, bro, lol.