GDT Game 4/4 Jays @ Phillies STOP THE BLEEDING!!!

[PhillyBlueJay]

need a couple more runs now... yes i'm greedy lol

[Jays24]

Did we sub Vladdy out for defensive purposes for Shaw?

[PhillyBlueJay]

Thank f***ing god!!!!

[Deadpool]

Alright, someone post the dancing underwear man gif so we can end this nightmare run of games officially.

[Spanky99]

Good W boys!

[BigCecil]

Alright, someone post the dancing underwear man gif so we can end this nightmare run of games officially.

 

Need the return of the Governator. Will bring on a winning streak and playoff push.

[Spanky99]

Need the return of the Governator. Will bring on a winning streak and playoff push.

 

No that's Omar's gif... no?

[P2F]

No that's Omar's gif... no?

 

Nope, it was Governator's.

[Dokken]

The mistakes he makes are first base specific errors, mostly picks and playing balls that he should let the 2B get. You don't really "pick" the ball at 3B, and you go for every single ball that you can get to. I'm not saying he's a good fielder (or ever will be), but the bulk of the mistakes he's making are because they're things you simply don't do at 3B.

 

Suggesting he's not ready for the MLB is just dumb. What do you want him to do? Go back to the minors so he can demolish AAA pitching again? What is he going to learn doing that?

 

It is anything but 'dumb' to suggest that Vlad's play at 1B is NOT ready for MLB. After today's game, that should be a given. Considering that he is also not tearing it up offensively, a stint back in Buffalo next spring may be very good for the young man. If he goes .900+ OPS and solid D after 4-6 weeks, then of course bring him right back on up. I invoked the late great Doc H in another thread recently, and he (along with Teoscar and Gurriel), flourished after a demotion back to the minors. It's far from the worst (and may be the best) thing that could happen to a 21/22 year old in Vlad's situation.

 

As for this game - HUGE WIN because a win (regardless of how) was critical at this point. But talk about ugly - another 3 errors and 2 unearned runs. I get the feeling that this team must be near the MLB leaders in unearned runs allowed at this point

[Dokken]

It is anything but 'dumb' to suggest that Vlad's play at 1B is NOT ready for MLB. After today's game, that should be a given. Considering that he is also not tearing it up offensively, a stint back in Buffalo next spring may be very good for the young man. If he goes .900+ OPS and solid D after 4-6 weeks, then of course bring him right back on up. I invoked the late great Doc H in another thread recently, and he (along with Teoscar and Gurriel), flourished after a demotion back to the minors. It's far from the worst (and may be the best) thing that could happen to a 21/22 year old in Vlad's situation.

 

As for this game - HUGE WIN because a win (regardless of how) was critical at this point. But talk about ugly - another 3 errors and 2 unearned runs. I get the feeling that this team must be near the MLB leaders in unearned runs allowed at this point

 

ETA: According to MLB.com (and my math) the Jays have given up 279 runs , 238 earned runs = 41 unearned (14.7% of the total). Next worst is Pirates with 31 unearned then Marlins and O's at 29. The 'best' is Twins with only 8 unearned runs surrendered. Talk about f***ing over your pitching staff (and fans)!!

[Boxcar]

The mistakes he makes are first base specific errors, mostly picks and playing balls that he should let the 2B get. You don't really "pick" the ball at 3B, and you go for every single ball that you can get to. I'm not saying he's a good fielder (or ever will be), but the bulk of the mistakes he's making are because they're things you simply don't do at 3B.

 

Suggesting he's not ready for the MLB is just dumb. What do you want him to do? Go back to the minors so he can demolish AAA pitching again? What is he going to learn doing that?

 

How are you sure he'll go back down and demolish AAA pitching? Are we just going to let him remain replacement level.forever?

[saskjayfan]

How are you sure he'll go back down and demolish AAA pitching? Are we just going to let him remain replacement level.forever?

 

He's only had 654 ABs. Give it some time.

[Dokken]

He's only had 654 ABs. Give it some time.

 

Seriously, look up Doc Halladay. He pitched 149 1/3 innings in 1999 (FIP 5.36) and 67 2/3 innings in Y2K ( FIP 6.47) for the Jays at ages 22/23, In 2000 (as most know) was sent to (then Syracuse) to 'work on things'. Interestingly, his numbers at AAA in 2000 look horrible on the surface (67 2/3 ip, 10.64 ERA, 6.47 FIP), but whoever was coaching him then seemed to help get things straightened out and he went on a hall of fame tear from 2001 onwards! Could Vlad Jr. be the position player version of Roy (we can all only wish!!)!!??

[Laika]

Seriously, look up Doc Halladay. He pitched 149 1/3 innings in 1999 (FIP 5.36) and 67 2/3 innings in Y2K ( FIP 6.47) for the Jays at ages 22/23, In 2000 (as most know) was sent to (then Syracuse) to 'work on things'. Interestingly, his numbers at AAA in 2000 look horrible on the surface (67 2/3 ip, 10.64 ERA, 6.47 FIP), but whoever was coaching him then seemed to help get things straightened out and he went on a hall of fame tear from 2001 onwards! Could Vlad Jr. be the position player version of Roy (we can all only wish!!)!!??

 

Yeah they need to send Vlad down to A ball so he can find the right drug cocktail to make him a menacing hall of fame hitter

[Dokken]

Yeah they need to send Vlad down to A ball so he can find the right drug cocktail to make him a menacing hall of fame hitter

 

NO, triple A: and as Boxcar mentioned, what if he goes there and doesn't do so great!? Lay off the Rogers cool-aid man - it's not good for your mental health!

 

ETA: he needs to get his D at 1B down because I can guarantee it will affect his hitting if he is not confident out there - which he can't be the way he has been playing!

 

WAIT are you saying Halladay was a juicer !!?? Oh do tell your evidence if that is your insinuation!!

Edited September 21, 2020 by Dokken

[Deadpool]

NO, triple A: and as Boxcar mentioned, what if he goes there and doesn't do so great!? Lay off the Rogers cool-aid man - it's not good for your mental health!

 

ETA: he needs to get his D at 1B down because I can guarantee it will affect his hitting if he is not confident out there - which he can't be the way he has been playing!

 

WAIT are you saying Halladay was a juicer !!?? Oh do tell your evidence if that is your insinuation!!

 

Halladay wasn't a juicer, but he WAS a drug addict (though, not at that point in his career...)

[Laika]

NO, triple A: and as Boxcar mentioned, what if he goes there and doesn't do so great!? Lay off the Rogers cool-aid man - it's not good for your mental health!

 

ETA: he needs to get his D at 1B down because I can guarantee it will affect his hitting if he is not confident out there - which he can't be the way he has been playing!

 

WAIT are you saying Halladay was a juicer !!?? Oh do tell your evidence if that is your insinuation!!

 

Not a juicer but more of a pharma zombie. Probably ran on cocktails of custom amphetamines and pain killers his whole career. I have zero actual evidence but if you are part of QAnon at all you would know.

[Olerud363]

Seriously, look up Doc Halladay. He pitched 149 1/3 innings in 1999 (FIP 5.36) and 67 2/3 innings in Y2K ( FIP 6.47) for the Jays at ages 22/23, In 2000 (as most know) was sent to (then Syracuse) to 'work on things'. Interestingly, his numbers at AAA in 2000 look horrible on the surface (67 2/3 ip, 10.64 ERA, 6.47 FIP), but whoever was coaching him then seemed to help get things straightened out and he went on a hall of fame tear from 2001 onwards! Could Vlad Jr. be the position player version of Roy (we can all only wish!!)!!??

 

He didn't rebuild in 2000. Those bad numbers were just part of his terrible 2000 season.

 

The rebuild started in 2001. He was sent to a-ball and made his way up from there. In 2001 his numbers, especiall k/bb were dynamite everywhere and completely different than anything he did before.

[Olerud363]

The mistakes he makes are first base specific errors, mostly picks and playing balls that he should let the 2B get. You don't really "pick" the ball at 3B, and you go for every single ball that you can get to. I'm not saying he's a good fielder (or ever will be), but the bulk of the mistakes he's making are because they're things you simply don't do at 3B.

 

Suggesting he's not ready for the MLB is just dumb. What do you want him to do? Go back to the minors so he can demolish AAA pitching again? What is he going to learn doing that?

 

As much as I complain I'm not sure sending him down is the right move. I just glanced at Juan Soto vs Vlad on fangraphs and honestly didn't come away with an obvious difference. Soto's ground ball rates seem to be high too.

 

Biggest different I found was in zone swing rate. Vladdy is chasing less than last year, but swing a lot in zone.

 

I want to see him over 150 games, let him get comfortable and settle into hot streaks -- sending him down next year gives him another split season...

 

On the other hand maybe getting sent down helps mentally. Like a refresh. I guess give him 6 weeks next year, and if it looks like this send him down?

[Laika]

As much as I complain I'm not sure sending him down is the right move. I just glanced at Juan Soto vs Vlad on fangraphs and honestly didn't come away with an obvious difference. Soto's ground ball rates seem to be high too.

 

Biggest different I found was in zone swing rate. Vladdy is chasing less than last year, but swing a lot in zone.

 

I want to see him over 150 games, let him get comfortable and settle into hot streaks -- sending him down next year gives him another split season...

 

On the other hand maybe getting sent down helps mentally. Like a refresh. I guess give him 6 weeks next year, and if it looks like this send him down?

 

It's not all about GB rate. Soto ranks very high in barrel% (made up statcast statistic). I think the main reason for that is Soto is a smarter, more patient hitter. Vlad is too antsy and he swings too much. It's about patience and pitch identification. It's learnable, of course.

 

Career stats

Soto: 39.6% swing rate, 18.9% chase rate, 11.7% barrel rate

Vlad: 46.9% swing rate, 27.3% chase rate, 8.1% barrel rate

 

This is actually a positive comparison. It shows that Vlad does NOT need to necessarily change in a dramatic way when it comes to groundball/flyball ratio.

Basically, we won't care about a large number of hard groundballs if he can just get a bit more selective and give us some more barrels, baby.

When it comes to power hitters, sometimes all they really need to do is sprinkle in a few more dingers. What is Teoscar Hernandez doing notable different this year other than barreling up a few more baseballs? Not much, as far as I can tell.