Vlad moving to 1B

[Carlos Danger]

I had Shaw in the running for comeback player of the year.. I think it would not be a good career move for him to sit out...

[Pendleton]

Yeah I would think Shaw is the one who made it easier to push Vlad to 1B/DH. If Shaw sits out, then we're probably stuck watching Drury/Panik at 3B all season.

 

Biggio played a few games of 3B down in Buffalo last season, might see him there occasionally if they are still planning to have him be a super utility man.

[max silver]

I had Shaw in the running for comeback player of the year.. I think it would not be a good career move for him to sit out...

 

Yeah he'd likely be forced to accept a minor league invitation at best for next season if he doesn't prove he's bounced back this year.

[Boxcar]

Would be funny if Shaw's very public lack of enthusiasm about border crossing is what helped spark this decision. Might be planning to sit the year out. Though Shaw makes the best candidate for making the switch across the diamond so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure your reasoning here makes no sense

[BlueRocky]

[Brownie19]

Yeah he'd likely be forced to accept a minor league invitation at best for next season if he doesn't prove he's bounced back this year.

 

we have him under control for next year...

[Brownie19]

If I may, I'll start by saying I remain really excited to see what Vladdy can do and remain confident he'll be an anchor in the Blue Jays future for the foreseeable future.

 

That said, I think I am disappointed in his inability to get into top physical shape because I think it reduces his ability to be the best player he could be. Perhaps this is misguided and he'll be just as good while overweight as he'd be if he were in good shape, but I suspect it's a low probability that's the case. He would have been more valuable if he could have stuck at 3rd base and one has to believe being in better shape would reduce the chance of injury, while improving his base running ability.

 

Maybe it's "impossible" to get in better shape and he truly is doing everything he can, but I can't help but look at the changes that Schwarber made - even Bo...even what Rowdy's done this spring and question that. I don't accept the old adage that he's 'big boned' and will always be that size. Even Prince Fielder dropped like 30-40 lbs one year.

 

I hate this stuff, but I must say I'm stuck with the impression that none of this matters a ton to him because he already comes from a very rich family. He seems perfectly fine becoming Prince Fielder instead of the next Miggy. The difference between a 75 WAR HOF career and a 30 WAR career likely has very little impact on his life....so why not have seconds of grandma's cooking? YOLO!

 

Are fans allowed to be disappointed about that? I think so.

 

Just my take...

[EastCoaster]

Right from day one there wasn't any doubts in any scouts mind on what position they envisioned best suited for Vladdy playing in the MLB. Since his real true value is with his hitting and not his defense there was no logic on having a sub par 3rd baseman on the field while there's potential that he could become an all star first baseman. I believed that last year for Guerrero was an experiment to give him a chance to prove that he could handle the position but it soon realized that it wasn't ideally suited for him.

 

This move should've been done sometime last year when they had a guy like Smoak that could of mentored him during the second half of the season. This probably spell an end to Rowdy Tellez ever having a starting role on this team the team will have to decide if they want to keep him and occupy a spot on the roster or give it to a multi role player that could help this team in different ways.

[Bobthe4th]

[Boxcar]

If I may, I'll start by saying I remain really excited to see what Vladdy can do and remain confident he'll be an anchor in the Blue Jays future for the foreseeable future.

 

That said, I think I am disappointed in his inability to get into top physical shape because I think it reduces his ability to be the best player he could be. Perhaps this is misguided and he'll be just as good while overweight as he'd be if he were in good shape, but I suspect it's a low probability that's the case. He would have been more valuable if he could have stuck at 3rd base and one has to believe being in better shape would reduce the chance of injury, while improving his base running ability.

 

Maybe it's "impossible" to get in better shape and he truly is doing everything he can, but I can't help but look at the changes that Schwarber made - even Bo...even what Rowdy's done this spring and question that. I don't accept the old adage that he's 'big boned' and will always be that size. Even Prince Fielder dropped like 30-40 lbs one year.

 

I hate this stuff, but I must say I'm stuck with the impression that none of this matters a ton to him because he already comes from a very rich family. He seems perfectly fine becoming Prince Fielder instead of the next Miggy. The difference between a 75 WAR HOF career and a 30 WAR career likely has very little impact on his life....so why not have seconds of grandma's cooking? YOLO!

 

Are fans allowed to be disappointed about that? I think so.

 

Just my take...

 

You know, it's getting a bit annoying that people keep alluding to the fact that Vlad "loses value" by being a 1B. First off, they aren't really looking to trade him, secondly, if it doesn't matter that he's a bad 3B because value or something, why not stick him at SS or CF? He'd have even more value!

[BTS]

You know, it's getting a bit annoying that people keep alluding to the fact that Vlad "loses value" by being a 1B. First off, they aren't really looking to trade him, secondly, if it doesn't matter that he's a bad 3B because value or something, why not stick him at SS or CF? He'd have even more value!

 

I've been saying this for years. Vlad doesn't "gain value" by costing the team 15 runs with horrible 3B defense. There's nothing lost by moving an incompetent defender down on the defensive spectrum.

[Dick_Pole]

Cabrera and Fielder did not play their entire careers for one team. They moved on during their most expensive years. So from a Blue Jays fan's perspective, if Guerrero is destined to have 30 WAR here no matter what, we should be pretty indifferent to whether he achieves 45 WAR or 0 WAR elsewhere.

 

Now if you have some attachment for him as a person, or want to see another Blue Jay in the HOF in 2045 if you plan on living that long, then these things do matter.

[Dick_Pole]

I've been saying this for years. Vlad doesn't "gain value" by costing the team 15 runs with horrible 3B defense. There's nothing lost by moving an incompetent defender down on the defensive spectrum.

 

I wonder if the arbitration process looks more favourably on a bad defender at 3B or a mediocre defender at 1B, given the same offensive stats? Because if it's the former, not only does the team gain value by putting him in the appropriate defensive position, they save money too. There is no downside here. Except that he has virtually no chance of being an 8 WAR contributor for league minimum like a good defender at 3B with monster offensive stats would.

[Deadpool]

I've been saying this for years. Vlad doesn't "gain value" by costing the team 15 runs with horrible 3B defense. There's nothing lost by moving an incompetent defender down on the defensive spectrum.

 

My only issue with it, and it's really not a bit one at all, is that he's young and I thought he could still improve at 3B. As it stands now without that improvement we're better served with Shaw there, and Groshans or Martin there for the long term.

 

I wouldn't hate to see him still getting reps at 3B during practice.

[Brownie19]

You know, it's getting a bit annoying that people keep alluding to the fact that Vlad "loses value" by being a 1B. First off, they aren't really looking to trade him, secondly, if it doesn't matter that he's a bad 3B because value or something, why not stick him at SS or CF? He'd have even more value!

 

I've been saying this for years. Vlad doesn't "gain value" by costing the team 15 runs with horrible 3B defense. There's nothing lost by moving an incompetent defender down on the defensive spectrum.

 

Yeah but he does 'gain value' if he works his ass off and becomes a league average 3rd baseman. Didn't most peg Bo to move off SS when he was drafted? Didn't he work his tail off to get into better shape and improve his defense to the point that he's expected to stick at SS for the foreseeable future?

 

If Bo didn't work hard, he might already be at 2nd base, which would hurt the Blue Jays right now.

 

Being in shape theoretically also increases his base running abilities and decreases the chance of injury. Christ - being in good shape probably improves his defense at 1st base too...wouldn't that be a good thing? Wouldn't it be nice to have early career Pujols defense instead of straight to the Prince Fielder defense?

 

If Biggio let himself go, got fat, which eliminated his above average speed and made his defense below average at 2nd to the point he had to move to 1st....would everyone be OK with that? or would you criticize him? Personally, I would criticize him as it because it would hurt his career and hurt the team.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Brownie19

[Brownie19]

Cabrera and Fielder did not play their entire careers for one team. They moved on during their most expensive years. So from a Blue Jays fan's perspective, if Guerrero is destined to have 30 WAR here no matter what, we should be pretty indifferent to whether he achieves 45 WAR or 0 WAR elsewhere.

 

Now if you have some attachment for him as a person, or want to see another Blue Jay in the HOF in 2045 if you plan on living that long, then these things do matter.

 

Miggy was 33% better than Fielder in their first 6 full respective seasons. Yes there's no guarantee he'll be a Jay beyond that - but there's a chance he is. I'd like to think we'll be in a position where we're winning and retaining our top talent.

[BTS]

Yeah but he does 'gain value' if he works his ass off and becomes a league average 3rd baseman. Didn't most peg Bo to move off SS when he was drafted? Didn't he work his tail off to get into better shape and improve his defense to the point that he's expected to stick at SS for the foreseeable future?

 

If Bo didn't work hard, he might already be at 2nd base, which would hurt the Blue Jays right now.

 

Being in shape theoretically also increases his base running abilities and decreases the chance of injury. Christ - being in good shape probably improves his defense at 1st base too...wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

If Biggio let himself go, got fat, which eliminated his above average speed and made his defense below average at 2nd to the point he had to move to 1st....would everyone be OK with that? or would you criticize him? Personally, I would criticize him as it because it would hurt his career and hurt the team.

 

Vlad is a fat guy. He's always been fat and always will be fat. Sure, it would be good if he got less fat and actually became a mobile defender and decent baserunner, but I don't think its in the cards.

[Krylian]

Yeah but he does 'gain value' if he works his ass off and becomes a league average 3rd baseman. Didn't most peg Bo to move off SS when he was drafted? Didn't he work his tail off to get into better shape and improve his defense to the point that he's expected to stick at SS for the foreseeable future?

 

If Bo didn't work hard, he might already be at 2nd base, which would hurt the Blue Jays right now.

 

Being in shape theoretically also increases his base running abilities and decreases the chance of injury. Christ - being in good shape probably improves his defense at 1st base too...wouldn't that be a good thing? Wouldn't it be nice to have early career Pujols defense instead of straight to the Prince Fielder defense?

 

If Biggio let himself go, got fat, which eliminated his above average speed and made his defense below average at 2nd to the point he had to move to 1st....would everyone be OK with that? or would you criticize him? Personally, I would criticize him as it because it would hurt his career and hurt the team.

 

Anyone that is pissing away natural talent will be criticized. These guys are in the 1% of the 1%. I expect professionals to act like professionals. Now, I'm specifically talking about guys like Fatty Panda and the Fielder's. Those guys are just gluttons. Vladdy isn't in that group... And I sure hope he never ends up there. If Vladdy is putting in the work and genetics just aren't letting him morph into better shape then so be it... But fat f***ers eating pizza and drinking beer in the clubhouse... You deserve to be called out.

[Jimcanuck]

The attempt to mold Vlad into a competent 3rd baseman probably kept his girth in check. And thereby is a risk of him moving to 1B already. Safe to gobble away, Vlad!

[wamco]

I wanna win the World Series , not the war World Series. Jesus Christ, vlad to 1b is a no brainer

[Brownie19]

I wanna win the World Series , not the war World Series. Jesus Christ, vlad to 1b is a no brainer

 

And Vlad being in shape and optimizing his abilities increases the chances to win the WS. How f***ing difficult is this?

[Maahfaace]

Fact: Gluttons always stick up for the fatties.

[L54]

And Vlad being in shape and optimizing his abilities increases the chances to win the WS. How f***ing difficult is this?

 

Vlad being a fat ass and forcing the move to 1B actually optimizes the chances of winning the WS.

 

Check. Mate.

[Spanky99]

I was shocked they pulled that card as quick as they did, but it is what it is, just rake kid. PLAKATA!!!

[Key22]

I always found playing first more difficult than playing 3rd. When I played third it is basically all reactionary. Get ball and fire it to first. First base - holding runners on - getting back into position - the second to first double play throwing around the runner. I hated first base - always seems much harder to me.

 

And defensively - a left handed pull hitter can drill the ball between first and second the same as a right handed hitter can drill the ball between second and third - you are often closer to the hitter at first as well because you have to get to your bag. Bunts are also harder because you have to get to the ball and then spin around to throw the ball back the the second baseman covering first - but at third you are more or less running in the direction of first base or the plate so you can pick up the ball and throw.

 

Anyway Vlad is a bat - if he can play a league average first base - I would be thrilled with that - IF he hits like Frank Thomas then all is forgiven. I would love to have 1B covered by a .320 40 home run ~1.000OPS hitter and average Defese for the next decade. Carlos Delgado 2.0.

 

I mean Vlad has been around how long and can't speak English? So he's probably not the hardest working guy in the world. See ball hit ball really really hard.

[Spanky99]

Vlad can speak English, just saying.

 

 

ETA: A little french, better than me, and Spanish.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Spanky99

[BlueBaller]

Vlad can speak English, just saying.

needs to be able to order cheeseburgs n pizza pies.

[Jonn]

I’m disappointed because I wanted it to work but this seemed inevitable. Just very surprised they did it now. All that tells me is that they had no confidence even in a short season him playing the position everyday. I don’t expect this team to be very competitive with the schedule but anything can happen. Insane things happen in small sample sizes.

[bronson44]

I think a lot of this is Austin Martin motivated. It was being planned but once he fell into their laps they accelerated it. I think they might want Martin at 3rd next year so he's a part of the young core and they're giving Vladdy these 60 games now to get used to 1B.

[Spanky99]

I’m disappointed because I wanted it to work but this seemed inevitable. Just very surprised they did it now. All that tells me is that they had no confidence even in a short season him playing the position everyday. I don’t expect this team to be very competitive with the schedule but anything can happen. Insane things happen in small sample sizes.

 

Or they see this season as a legit chance, Shaws defense is moons above Vladdy... either way not big a deal.