Around Baseball 2020

[TheHurl]

One obvious issue is LeBron, Magic, Barkley, Curry being highly visible.

 

Guys like Mookie, not so much.

 

MLB has been poorly run as a business for a long time.

 

Fun fact. Mookie has more bowling endorsement deals than baseball

[TheHurl]

I agree with what you are saying, I think MLB does also. However, it appears you are asserting none of your suggestions/solutions are being done. They are, and have been. Are you familiar with the RBI program?

 

This is an article from 2015 that outlines some of the efforts. In 2020 they have increased the % with more on the way. Again, it is a fair debate to ask if what they are doing works, or if they are concentrating on the right areas for improvement. However, they are 100% trying to do something about it and recognize the problem/issue.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2015/04/14/mlb-diversity-percentage-of-african-american-players-remained-flat/25791993/

 

Did you know that the RBI program replaced player run programs which were producing players at a much higher clip. Did you know that the RBI program has produced 5 times more NFL players than MLB?

[connorp]

In other news, Stroman has accepted the QO from the Mets.

 

He seems like the type of guy that think he’s worth a mega deal. Can’t say I hope it works out for him

[TheHurl]

I think this discussion on race in sport is very interesting. Everyone is making valid points.

 

I think it would be smart long-term marketing for baseball to really focus on making the sport affordable and accessible.

 

When people say baseball is a "white man's game" they aren't intending to talk about the athletes and the other participants... they are talking about the fans.

 

I despite quota-based analysis. I don't agree that MLB needs to hit some magic percentage of black participation.

 

I also don't agree that MLB has any social obligations here. There are certainly things they could do more intelligently from a marketing perspective and those things in turn would improve the optics.

 

Also, what are we really talking about here. Are we talking about MLB turning Kyler Murray into a baseball player rather than a football player? Or are we talking about baseball as a whole providing opportunities to low-income athletes who otherwise would not make it in any sport. These are very different things.

 

In short I agree with connnorp more than thehurl.

 

Fair enough. In the end this still comes down to how they market the game and he players, and how the game is perceived as not fun. The best african american athletes are seldom choosing baseball despite it having advantages in number of players, number of scholarships, signing bonuses. I don't think that concerned MLB. It may if the game continues to shrink rather than grow

[Carlos Danger]

Did you know that the RBI program replaced player run programs which were producing players at a much higher clip. Did you know that the RBI program has produced 5 times more NFL players than MLB?

 

From the bottom paragraph of my comment you quoted.

 

It is a fair debate to ask if what they are doing works, or if they are concentrating on the right areas for improvement. However, they are 100% trying to do something about it and recognize the problem/issue.

 

There is a difference in, "not doing a damn thing" and doing something, a lot of things, and maybe not getting the expected/hoped for results.

[Spanky__99]

In other news, Stroman has accepted the QO from the Mets.

 

I knew he would, Mets sign Realmuto next.

[Laika]

There is a difference in, "not doing a damn thing" and doing something, a lot of things, and maybe not getting the expected/hoped for results.

 

If the thing they are doing is the bare minimum, done mostly for optics, then there really isn't. The thing they are doing might even be worse than doing nothing at all! who knows!

[Spanky__99]

Fun fact. Mookie has more bowling endorsement deals than baseball

 

lol... that's crazy.

[Jimcanuck]

Hell, baseball's most visible player might be Bauer, and he did it on his own without any help from MLB.

[saskjayfan]

I knew he would, Mets sign Realmuto next.

 

I was wrong, I thought he would go to free agency, but the QO is a higher number than he would have got AAV on a longer term deal. With the new ownership and willingness to spend he bets on himself with a team that likely spends more and has a shot at competing. I wouldn't be surprised if the mets got Realmuto.

[glory]

Did you know that the RBI program replaced player run programs which were producing players at a much higher clip. Did you know that the RBI program has produced 5 times more NFL players than MLB?

 

This is why I think the Players Alliance is going to make a significant difference for the sport in the next 5-10 years. You have a group exclusively of current and former big leaguers (Granderson, CC, Maybin, etc) who range from Gen Z to millennial to 40's, that are much more familiar with the plight of black families and how to reach black kids than the corporate types who probably have a great deal of power in MLB sponsored programs. If MLB stays away from the Players Alliance and lets them do their own thing, it has far more potential for real results.

[connorp]

From the bottom paragraph of my comment you quoted.

 

 

 

There is a difference in, "not doing a damn thing" and doing something, a lot of things, and maybe not getting the expected/hoped for results.

 

Yeah I’d be interested in the hard numbers of how much they’re putting towards the programs based on revenue vs that of NFL or NBA. Spitballing but I doubt there’d be much difference.

[glory]

He seems like the type of guy that think he’s worth a mega deal. Can’t say I hope it works out for him

 

The QO was perfect for Stroman. It is a big raise from what he got in arb for 2020 (even though he never got to touch most of it due to sitting out), and he didn't even throw a single regular season pitch. Now he gets $18.9 million in 2021 to build up his value for next year on a team that figures to at least be good, if not a playoff team depending on who they add. Someone like Odorizzi last year got screwed by the QO since he was coming off one of his best seasons, but Stroman didn't even pitch. This is one of the rare cases where the QO benefits the player more than anyone else. Even with his massive ego, he had to accept it in this market.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I’d be interested in the hard numbers of how much they’re putting towards the programs based on revenue vs that of NFL or NBA. Spitballing but I doubt there’d be much difference.

 

And if true - might that not be why TLR's comments were what they were? Seeing as he worked for MLB, perhaps his comments were meant to be dismissive and were more based on his knowledge of the efforts being made and struggles to make it work (regardless of the outcome - this is a complex issue with many layers and issues). Maybe he was just a little sick of people complaining about it without knowing much about the issue and the challenges they are facing...

 

But probably not. I mean if Adam Jones complained about it, it must be true.

[Brownie19]

Why are football and basketball athletes able to develop and excel in the US without playing for expensive high end travel teams? Or do they, but those programs are subsidized so families who can't afford it can still enroll their kids?

 

I mean in Canada to excel in almost any sport, you need the $$$ for extra training and/or to join travel teams.

[TheHurl]

The QO was perfect for Stroman. It is a big raise from what he got in arb for 2020 (even though he never got to touch most of it due to sitting out), and he didn't even throw a single regular season pitch. Now he gets $18.9 million in 2021 to build up his value for next year on a team that figures to at least be good, if not a playoff team depending on who they add. Someone like Odorizzi last year got screwed by the QO since he was coming off one of his best seasons, but Stroman didn't even pitch. This is one of the rare cases where the QO benefits the player more than anyone else. Even with his massive ego, he had to accept it in this market.

 

Agents are talking more and more about the value of reaching 10 years of service time in the MLB as well (first I had ever heard anyone talk about it is Moustakis) and getting the max MLB pension at an earlier age. Agents are saying if you aren't getting the 4 year deal, it is easier to get a 1 and then a 3 (or 1, 1 and a 2), than 3 and a 1. Seems insane to think they would think about $65k 30 years into the future though

[connorp]

Why are football and basketball athletes able to develop and excel in the US without playing for expensive high end travel teams? Or do they, but those programs are subsidized so families who can't afford it can still enroll their kids?

 

I mean in Canada to excel in almost any sport, you need the $$$ for extra training and/or to join travel teams.

 

Well basketball everything is paid for as I mentioned. It’s pretty clear that there’s even payments going out there to steer kids to certain programs. Big money in it.

 

Football you don’t really need to be on fancy travel team. Football and basketball recruiting is 100x more intense than baseball. If you have gamebreaking size and speed, the top football programs will find you no matter where you are

[Carlos Danger]

They were talking about Stroman and TLR on MLB radio yesterday and today. A few take aways:

 

They suspected Stroman was taking the QO when he spouted off about TLR. Prior to that they all thought he would go FA, he seems like the type who would bet on himself and go to FA, regardless of other factors like sitting out, coming off an injury.

 

The "racist' issue with TLR was his comments about Kapernick disrespecting the Flag when the whole kneeling thing started years ago.

 

40 years of coaching by TLR and not one iota or peep out of any of his players about being racist.

 

Probably an alcoholic and f***ed up big time with the second DUI, sets a piss poor example and highly irresponsible in this day and age with ride share etc, but not a racist.

 

MLB players saying in their whole professional career that spanned many years, and coaches, TLR was by far the best communicator and strategist they ever played for. He was way ahead of his time in the use of data and very fwd thinking.

[Spanky__99]

The QO was perfect for Stroman. It is a big raise from what he got in arb for 2020 (even though he never got to touch most of it due to sitting out), and he didn't even throw a single regular season pitch. Now he gets $18.9 million in 2021 to build up his value for next year on a team that figures to at least be good, if not a playoff team depending on who they add. Someone like Odorizzi last year got screwed by the QO since he was coming off one of his best seasons, but Stroman didn't even pitch. This is one of the rare cases where the QO benefits the player more than anyone else. Even with his massive ego, he had to accept it in this market.

 

As King said back when he was qualified, he'd have to be stupid to not accept.

[connorp]

As King said back when he was qualified, he'd have to be stupid to not accept.

 

He could’ve turned his nose up at 5/75 or something thinking that was an insult. We don’t know.

I’m not a fan though, so I won’t be rooting for him

[connorp]

It just dawned on me but Stroman and NBA Isaiah Thomas are really similar in how they carry themselves. Didn’t end well for IT

[TheHurl]

Well basketball everything is paid for as I mentioned. It’s pretty clear that there’s even payments going out there to steer kids to certain programs. Big money in it.

 

Football you don’t really need to be on fancy travel team. Football and basketball recruiting is 100x more intense than baseball. If you have gamebreaking size and speed, the top football programs will find you no matter where you are

 

Also probably has a lot to do with repetition. You can take an athletic 13 year old and make him competitive in football having never played the game. That is really difficult in baseball.

 

Well worded by the way about football finding them, that is true and a clear concise argument (much better than africans are not genetically made for baseball which is not true at all). I have my opinions about whether baseball at one time wanted their sport to be more "black".

[connorp]

Also probably has a lot to do with repetition. You can take an athletic 13 year old and make him competitive in football having never played the game. That is really difficult in baseball.

 

Well worded by the way about football finding them, that is true and a clear concise argument (much better than africans are not genetically made for baseball which is not true at all). I have my opinions about whether baseball at one time wanted their sport to be more "black".

 

Yeah and guess what? When they go to those colleges and get huge national exposure, they come to the NBA/NFL with the marketing end of things already in the bag. Again, ask a guy off the street to name the best 2 college baseball players

[connorp]

Best 1 actually

[connorp]

Deck is stacked against mlb in this case. They’d have to spend/try 20x harder just to keep up

[Brownie19]

Well basketball everything is paid for as I mentioned. It’s pretty clear that there’s even payments going out there to steer kids to certain programs. Big money in it.

 

Football you don’t really need to be on fancy travel team. Football and basketball recruiting is 100x more intense than baseball. If you have gamebreaking size and speed, the top football programs will find you no matter where you are

 

I'd love to know how much money is put into bball programs across the US. To pay for coaches, shoes, court time, travel, etc. for leagues across all ages is pretty insane.

 

For football, maybe coaching and extra development doesn't matter as much at a young age? I'd equate football in the US to hockey in Canada in terms of popularity and such. In Canada, you typically just get volunteer coaches at the minor league programs. Some are great, others are s***. I'm yet to see any kid simply play 2-3 times a week at minor league hockey who goes on to have significant success. For the vast majority it often requires $$$ for extra ice time, private/semi-private lessons, etc. and eventually a move to an expensive AAA travel team.

 

I'd even suggest that to even make rep team at the age of 8 through 10 that you typically need to pump some extra money out to get them on the ice more and to give them extra opportunities. Otherwise they're destine for the local league program, which are mostly full of kids who just play for fun - no focus, no effort, etc.

 

Edit - Hurl kind of beat me to the punch...kids simply can't start playing baseball or hockey at age 13 and go on to great success.

[connorp]

NBA didn’t need to spend dime on marketing Zion. Nike’s $200m and his time at Duke did that

 

Mike Trout makes a couple million a year getting the occasional Subway commercial. Last I knew Lonzo f***ing Ball was shopping around for a shoe deal that dwarfs that

[Laika]

Deck is stacked against mlb in this case. They’d have to spend/try 20x harder just to keep up

 

Problem for MLB is they can't have their cake and eat it too. The black kids like basketball, the old white guys like baseball and NASCAR. If MLB turns its sport into the batflip pimping Tim Anderson / Marcus Stroman festival we all want to see, MLB loses a chunk of their core old white viewership.

 

Just like Twitter does not define a country's politics, Twitter does not define general fan interest in baseball. As much as Twitter loves Yasiel Puig, lots of baseball fans do not.

[Jimcanuck]

It just dawned on me but Stroman and NBA Isaiah Thomas are really similar in how they carry themselves. Didn’t end well for IT

 

This is an odd comparison. I don't see it at all.

[connorp]

How does the NFL really market Patrick Mahomes individually speaking? That’s the envy here that people want for Mookie Betts.

 

Companies pay Mahomes a shitload of money to tie his face to their product. That’s why you see him. Baseball players don’t have that, regardless of race. I doubt MLBs marketing budget (not just inner city programs) isnt similar to the other major sports

 

Anyways, kind of repeating points at this point so I’ll leave it at that