Offseason Roster Thread 2019-2020

[Bobthe4th]

I don't hate the idea of them giving Valera a bit of a look, but Urena needs to go for sure.

 

True but Valera is just so uninspiring, haha. I mean unless he has a Sogard type breakthrough, there's little chance he lasts the season on the 40 man with having no options left, and currently being in AAA.

[BTS]

Honestly, there's still a ton of dead weight on the 40-man. Guys that likely have no value here or elsewhere:

 

Urena - out of options

Valera - out of options

Drury - has been bad for two years and is now arb eligible with a projected salary of 2.5M

Maile - redundant on a team rostering Jansen and McGuire, and coming off a very bad year

Pannone - has options remaining, but is so bad that he doesn't really serve a purpose

Law - projected to earn 1.3M in arb and hasn't been good in the majors since 2016

 

Really, it would be ideal if none of these guys were on the 40-man come March.

[Bobthe4th]

Honestly, there's still a ton of dead weight on the 40-man. Guys that likely have no value here or elsewhere:

 

Urena - out of options

Valera - out of options

Drury - has been bad for two years and is now arb eligible with a projected salary of 2.5M

Maile - redundant on a team rostering Jansen and McGuire, and coming off a very bad year

Pannone - has options remaining, but is so bad that he doesn't really serve a purpose

Law - projected to earn 1.3M in arb and hasn't been good in the majors since 2016

 

Really, it would be ideal if none of these guys were on the 40-man come March.

 

Billy McKinney!

[BTS]

Billy McKinney!

 

I'm not as bothered by McKinney. He has options, and makes the minimum. The team could ostensibly keep him at AAA and use him as depth. They won't, but they could.

[Bobthe4th]

I'm not as bothered by McKinney. He has options, and makes the minimum. The team could ostensibly keep him at AAA and use him as depth. They won't, but they could.

 

You could say exactly the same about Pannone, but yeah it worries me that Atkins specifically referenced McKinney when talking about giving players time to improve in the majors.

[BTS]

You could say exactly the same about Pannone, but yeah it worries me that Atkins specifically referenced McKinney when talking about giving players time to improve in the majors.

 

I guess when I squint hard I can see why someone might think McKinney is worth keeping around. I don't share the optimism, but get it. With Pannone, I don't see it at all. He's a soft tosser with shoddy command, and is probably going to be like the 5th best starter in AAA.

[wamco]

Panonne is in the bullpen going forward if I made the call. Atkins comments lately about patience and. Giving more time in mlb sounded to me like he meant drury/teo/fisher. So I expect a 1bman signed, tellez to aaa and rotation at dh.

[Jimcanuck]

Obviously with the 26 man roster next season, easier for a team like the BJ to pick and stash a rule 5 guy who spends a lot of time throwing in the bullpen

 

A guy like Luis Oviedo for example

[Bobthe4th]

Panonne is in the bullpen going forward if I made the call. Atkins comments lately about patience and. Giving more time in mlb sounded to me like he meant drury/teo/fisher. So I expect a 1bman signed, tellez to aaa and rotation at dh.

 

FWIW the exact quote is:

 

"We have some young players that have not realized their full potential yet. Whether that’s Brandon Drury, Billy McKinney, Derek Fisher, Teoscar Hernandez, there’s a group of guys we feel are going to continue to get better and be good major-league talent for some time to come.

 

There’s a lot of upside to our roster and being patient, we feel, will really pay off in the end. That’s the one thing that limits some of the flexibility that is being talked about."

 

That suggests to me they aren't looking to add to the outfield, which IMO is a mistake.

[Jimcanuck]

That suggests to me they aren't looking to add to the outfield, which IMO is a mistake.

 

They seem to be focusing on pitching this offseason, and rightfully so. I don't think this FO is trying to contend in 2020. If another year does not result in an emergence of in house options to a regular OF, an addition can be made next offseason. Will also be interesting to see if Groshans can elevate to AA and be knocking at the door as soon as 2021 as some evaluators believe.

[TheHurl]

I don't think they can make a pick if their 40 man is full. Not sure if they can release someone off the 40 man to select a guy.

 

it's a long way away from the draft. A lot will shake out by then.

[jaysblue]

Nick Goody was DFA'd by Cleveland. Would be a nice BP pickup for the Jays!

[glory]

That suggests to me they aren't looking to add to the outfield, which IMO is a mistake.

 

It might be due to lack of options. The CF free agent market sucks, and they don't seem to want to trade any actual prospects, so acquiring one in a trade (unless it comes in return for Giles) seems unlikely. I came into the off season expecting status quo (Hernandez in CF), but then there seemed to be a lot of talk about the Jays looking to add an OF, so my expectations shifted. Now I have no idea what they have in mind.

[saskjayfan]

let's go sign Kwan-Hyun Kim. That would be fun.

[LGBJ29]

Blue Jays added AJ Cole to a minor league deal w/ Spring Training invite. Nice no risk move

 

2019: 26.0 IP, 10.38 K/9, 2.77 BB/9, 3.81/3.83/4.81 0.2 WAR

[glory]

Time for the "Jays sign Cole" thread.

[LGBJ29]

Ban-able offence, wouldn't be me

[Laika]

Blue Jays added AJ Cole to a minor league deal w/ Spring Training invite. Nice no risk move

 

2019: 26.0 IP, 10.38 K/9, 2.77 BB/9, 3.81/3.83/4.81 0.2 WAR

 

nice

 

was almost a top 100 prospect in the past. might be a good reliever if he can stay healthy and put in a full season... sat almost 95 last year

[glory]

Has health issues, but numbers and velocity look good. Seems like a really good MiLB signing.

[glory]

Ban-able offence, wouldn't be me

 

Agreed, but you just know someone will do it.

[Jimcanuck]

Ban-able offence, wouldn't be me

 

BTS has a better sense of humour than you give him credit for.

[Barkerfan23]

BTS has a better sense of humour than you give him credit for.

 

He must love Kpop

[Ray]

Nick Pivetta is so interesting.

 

95 mph, avg 4-seam velocity, 66th percentile fastball spin

92 percentile curveball spin

In 2018, his curveball had a .215 xWOBA and slider had a .260 xWOBA.

The inches of drop/vertical and horizontal movement on his 4-seamer, curveball, and slider all break well above average.

 

He should've had a much better season in 2018 than his stats indicated. 3.80 FIP and 3.42 xFIP in 2018, but let down due to horrendous Phillies defense.

 

The one glaring issue is, he's missing a true changeup against to get lefties out.

[TheHurl]

Cole has to make the team out of spring or he becomes a Free Agent again but still a great risk to take

[Orgfiller]

Nick Pivetta is so interesting.

 

95 mph, avg 4-seam velocity, 66th percentile fastball spin

92 percentile curveball spin

In 2018, his curveball had a .215 xWOBA and slider had a .260 xWOBA.

The inches of drop/vertical and horizontal movement on his 4-seamer, curveball, and slider all break well above average.

 

He should've had a much better season in 2018 than his stats indicated. 3.80 FIP and 3.42 xFIP in 2018, but let down due to horrendous Phillies defense.

 

The one glaring issue is, he's missing a true changeup against to get lefties out.

 

Pivetta is a really interesting case in that he has consistently drastically underperformed his peripherals. The strikeouts have been there, the walks a tad high but manageable, but he just gets f***ing shelled. It's insane that a guy with a career 3.99 xFIP and a 4.56 FIP has an ERA of 5.34, there's only so much you can blame on bad defense, as it's not like a .324 BABIP is exceptionally high. Is it sequencing, lack of a solid primary or tertiary pitch - as you mention, his changeup is terrible but his fastball has also been horrendous by pitch value so maybe he just can't locate it well at all? He would be a decent project to take on, will still only be 27 by season's start, maybe change his grip on some of his pitches, try attacking hitters differently, build him up as strictly a bullpen piece where his velocity will trend up, etc.

[Ray]

Pivetta is a really interesting case in that he has consistently drastically underperformed his peripherals. The strikeouts have been there, the walks a tad high but manageable, but he just gets f***ing shelled. It's insane that a guy with a career 3.99 xFIP and a 4.56 FIP has an ERA of 5.34, there's only so much you can blame on bad defense, as it's not like a .324 BABIP is exceptionally high. Is it sequencing, lack of a solid primary or tertiary pitch - as you mention, his changeup is terrible but his fastball has also been horrendous by pitch value so maybe he just can't locate it well at all? He would be a decent project to take on, will still only be 27 by season's start, maybe change his grip on some of his pitches, try attacking hitters differently, build him up as strictly a bullpen piece where his velocity will trend up, etc.

 

The thing that's odd about his 4-seam profile is that on paper, it's not that far off from Verlanders:

 

Verlander: 94.6 mph average, 10.7 inches of vertical drop, 10.1 inches of horizontal break, 2577 rpm spinrate

Pivetta: 94.6 mph average, 12.8 inches of vertical drop, 9.9 inches of horizontal break, 2340 rpm spinrate

 

Verlander's fastball isn't as dominant as one might think (.330 wOBA against in 2019), but obviously he manages to make it work. It's not like Verlander throws a changeup either to get lefties out. His curveball/slider is just that dominant.

 

Whatever the problem is with Pivetta (pitch sequencing like you mentioned or maybe something else), I think the potential reward more than justifies the risk. I'd call the Phillies and see if they'd be willing to do Pivetta+ for Giles.

[Orgfiller]

The thing that's odd about his 4-seam profile is that on paper, it's not that far off from Verlanders:

 

Verlander: 94.6 mph average, 10.7 inches of vertical drop, 10.1 inches of horizontal break, 2577 rpm spinrate

Pivetta: 94.6 mph average, 12.8 inches of vertical drop, 9.9 inches of horizontal break, 2340 rpm spinrate

 

Verlander's fastball isn't as dominant as one might think (.330 wOBA against in 2019), but obviously he manages to make it work. It's not like Verlander throws a changeup either to get lefties out. His curveball/slider is just that dominant.

 

Whatever the problem is with Pivetta (pitch sequencing like you mentioned or maybe something else), I think the potential reward more than justifies the risk. I'd call the Phillies and see if they'd be willing to do Pivetta+ for Giles.

 

I was with you until Pivetta+ for Giles lol. Pivetta can't have any real value at all, the Phillies basically gave up on him last year when they moved him to the bullpen and even then he was barely pitching because he wasn't any good there either. Maybe you give them an extra outfielder of ours, for instance McKinney is probably the pitcher version of Pivetta, or Fisher. Trade crap for crap and both teams will hope the guy they're getting will break out on their team.

[Ray]

I was with you until Pivetta+ for Giles lol. Pivetta can't have any real value at all, the Phillies basically gave up on him last year when they moved him to the bullpen and even then he was barely pitching because he wasn't any good there either. Maybe you give them an extra outfielder of ours, for instance McKinney is probably the pitcher version of Pivetta, or Fisher. Trade crap for crap and both teams will hope the guy they're getting will break out on their team.

 

It might be that what I think Pivetta could be is clouding my judgement on what his true value is. If we could get Pivetta for McKinney or any of our surplus outfielders, I would definitely do it.

[Laika]

Nick Pivetta is so interesting.

 

95 mph, avg 4-seam velocity, 66th percentile fastball spin

92 percentile curveball spin

In 2018, his curveball had a .215 xWOBA and slider had a .260 xWOBA.

The inches of drop/vertical and horizontal movement on his 4-seamer, curveball, and slider all break well above average.

 

He should've had a much better season in 2018 than his stats indicated. 3.80 FIP and 3.42 xFIP in 2018, but let down due to horrendous Phillies defense.

 

The one glaring issue is, he's missing a true changeup against to get lefties out.

 

66th percentile spin rate on the fastball is close enough to middle of the road and that velocity is not special in this era.

 

At this point I am willing to begin to think that Nick Pivetta is just one of those batting practice style pitchers who can post good K/BB rates but gets hammered on contact. Could be an ultra hittable fastball, lack of a third pitch, or both - or it could be random.

[Angrioter]

Luciano still looks bad. I saw him throw in DWL and he really stink.