Offseason Roster Thread 2019-2020

[Ray]

How about a guy like David Freese for 1B/3B? He's changed his game since joining the Dodgers. Lowered his K%, taking more walks. Also can cover for Vladdy at 3B if needed.

 

Alternatively, resigining Justin Smoak really wouldn't be the worst idea. Down year compared to his last 2, but still, he manages to get on base at a really nice clip.

[BTS]

Not sure if it's being discussed elsewhere, but Tim Mayza is getting TJS. Probably doesn't really hurt the team I guess.

[DigitalRock]

Wow lol. Yanks dumb.

[Spanky99]

Wow lol. Yanks dumb.

 

Wat?

[Slade]

 

I wouldn't mind extending Shoemaker to a 2-3 year deal with a club option.

[BTS]

Just re-up Shoe at least year's rate with a team option and buyout for 2021.

 

2019 - 3.5 M

2020 - 4M team option with 500k buyout.

 

This year's injury wasn't an arm or shoulder problem, and he's a decent bet to provide some value from the back of the rotation. Take advantage of the injury to get a cheap option on his first FA year.

[Slade]

Just re-up Shoe at least year's rate with a team option and buyout for 2021.

 

2019 - 3.5 M

2020 - 4M team option with 500k buyout.

 

This year's injury wasn't an arm or shoulder problem, and he's a decent bet to provide some value from the back of the rotation. Take advantage of the injury to get a cheap option on his first FA year.

 

I was thinking something like.

 

2020 - 4M

2021 - 8M

2022 - 12M Team option

[BTS]

I was thinking something like.

 

2020 - 4M

2021 - 8M

2022 - 12M Team option

 

I dunno, I think that 2021 guarantee is more than he can expect. Last offseason he was non-tendered with an expected arb salary of 4.5M or so, and then signed a 1/3.5 with the Jays. After yet another lost season in 2019, you have to think he'd be thrilled to get 4M guaranteed in 2020, even it it came with a 4M team option in 2021.

[glory]

I was thinking something like.

 

2020 - 4M

2021 - 8M

2022 - 12M Team option

 

No way Shoemaker would get a guaranteed 2nd year on the open market right now. More likely what BTS speculated, they’ll try to work out a 1 plus 1 deal.

[Dick_Pole]

I get the feeling that a lot of people are still wrapping their heads the changing market dynamics of free agency. Good players with little to no perceived risk will get paid (Cole). Mediocre players or players with potential but with risks or not a long track record do not (Shoemaker). How some people were floating around Sanchez at 5/80 even before this shitshow of a season baffles me. Even Smoak's contract which seemed like an absolute bargain basement steal at the time ends up looking like an overpay just with how the market for those types of players has turned since then.

[Dick_Pole]

Also I think players have learned how to play the fan base to try to get some leverage against an FO. Of course the guy who spent like a month here and was released beforehand wants to spend the rest of his career in Toronto! And so many of us self-conscious Canadians fall for that s***.

[Boxcar]

Also I think players have learned how to play the fan base to try to get some leverage against an FO. Of course the guy who spent like a month here and was released beforehand wants to spend the rest of his career in Toronto! And so many of us self-conscious Canadians fall for that s***.

 

Granting all that though, and I do, I'd definitely like Shoe to stay here. He's pretty good as a backend rotation type and we really need all the pitching we can get.

[Dick_Pole]

Oh that's without question, if the deal is right.

 

Just that...Bautista, Donaldson, Stroman, DeRozan on the NBA side. Any hint of a player saying he wants to stay in Toronto and the rabid fan base is ready to make the guy the next Ryan Howard. "Aww that guy said something nice about my city and country I WUV HIM!!!". Players aren't stupid and even if they are, their agents aren't.

[Grant77]

Oh that's without question, if the deal is right.

 

Just that...Bautista, Donaldson, Stroman, DeRozan on the NBA side. Any hint of a player saying he wants to stay in Toronto and the rabid fan base is ready to make the guy the next Ryan Howard. "Aww that guy said something nice about my city and country I WUV HIM!!!". Players aren't stupid and even if they are, their agents aren't.

 

When has our FO given even the slightest indication that they care about who fans like? They have dumped several fan favourites for pennies on the dollar just to get rid of holdovers from the previous regime.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

When has our FO given even the slightest indication that they care about who fans like? They have dumped several fan favourites for pennies on the dollar just to get rid of holdovers from the previous regime.

 

This is lazy criticism. they were worth pennies.

[Boxcar]

This is lazy criticism. they were worth pennies.

 

I guess that's technically correct. Martin and Tulo were definitely worth a great many pennies, though

[G-Snarls]

I guess that's technically correct. Martin and Tulo were definitely worth a great many pennies, though

 

Thousands of millions of pennies

Edited September 16, 2019 by G-Snarls

[G-Snarls]

At least we can be happy knowing we're helping subsidize Martin's playing in the World Series again. That's kinda nice.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I guess that's technically correct. Martin and Tulo were definitely worth a great many pennies, though

 

Not at the time they were traded and DFAed respectively.

[Boxcar]

Not at the time they were traded and DFAed respectively.

 

Uhhh...wut

[Brownie19]

Uhhh...wut

 

I think he's just trying to say that Tulo, Martin, Pillar, Sanchez, Biagini (the fan favourites) weren't worth much in terms of value, when the FO traded them. You can't trade them for 'pennies on the dollar' when they aren't worth s*** to begin with.

 

That's obviously omitting Stro, who had lots of value when traded. Time will tell if we actually traded him for 'pennies on the dollar' of if we got something of value for him. People like Grant suggesting they 'know' we traded them for less than their actual value are fooling themselves. None of us have any idea.

[Grant77]

I think he's just trying to say that Tulo, Martin, Pillar, Sanchez, Biagini (the fan favourites) weren't worth much in terms of value, when the FO traded them. You can't trade them for 'pennies on the dollar' when they aren't worth s*** to begin with.

 

That's obviously omitting Stro, who had lots of value when traded. Time will tell if we actually traded him for 'pennies on the dollar' of if we got something of value for him. People like Grant suggesting they 'know' we traded them for less than their actual value are fooling themselves. None of us have any idea.

 

I didn't say that I knew anything. This tired old argument that we don't know what the offers are and therefore can't speculate is ridiculous. We can compare with previous trades and make some educated guesses. For example, we know that trading an MVP calibre player returning from an injury still usually nets a solid return. We got nothing and he was very good for Cleveland. We know that pitchers with less value than Stroman have received much more highly rated prospects and more of them. I like the guys we got but those are just the facts. They didn't like the personality of either and were eager to get rid of both. That's why they were never offered extensions despite being very clear that they wanted to stay. Same with EE.

 

Anyways, I wasn't even intending to trash Shapiro with my comments. I like that he doesn't care what fans think when it comes to trades. Now that he's cleaned house we can get to the business of building a contender.

[BTS]

I didn't say that I knew anything. This tired old argument that we don't know what the offers are and therefore can't speculate is ridiculous. We can compare with previous trades and make some educated guesses. For example, we know that trading an MVP calibre player returning from an injury still usually nets a solid return. We got nothing and he was very good for Cleveland. We know that pitchers with less value than Stroman have received much more highly rated prospects and more of them. I like the guys we got but those are just the facts. They didn't like the personality of either and were eager to get rid of both. That's why they were never offered extensions despite being very clear that they wanted to stay. Same with EE.

 

Anyways, I wasn't even intending to trash Shapiro with my comments. I like that he doesn't care what fans think when it comes to trades. Now that he's cleaned house we can get to the business of building a contender.

 

I can't think of a single comp for the Donaldson trade. Dude was traded while still injured on August 31st, and didn't get into a game until mid-September. I think there are legit arguments to be made about his handling, but the trade return given the circumstances doesn't strike me as being weak.

[Ray]

Rockies may be one of the teams in tear down mode after such a terrible season.

 

How much would a Jon Gray cost in terms of prospect capital?

[Abomination]

Rockies may be one of the teams in tear down mode after such a terrible season.

 

How much would a Jon Gray cost in terms of prospect capital?

 

Probably slightly more than Stroman.

[Spanky99]

Probably slightly more than Stroman.

 

I was an advocate for that trade, not sure about slightly more, they're dumn!

[Abomination]

I was an advocate for that trade, not sure about slightly more, they're dumn!

 

You never know. Maybe they'd fall in love with Tellez and Teoscar or something, but I highly doubt it.

 

As much as I'm laughing while saying that, those two MIGHT actually be a cheap upgrade for them.

 

Speaking of trade targets, Matt Carpenter could be an interesting one. The Cards are playing Edman, who out of the blue decided to play like a 4 WAR player, and I'm pretty sure they're salary contrained. Carpenter is average defensively at 1st and 3rd, and seems like a very good bounce-back candidate.

[Spanky99]

You never know. Maybe they'd fall in love with Tellez and Teoscar or something, but I highly doubt it.

 

As much as I'm laughing while saying that, those two MIGHT actually be a cheap upgrade for them.

 

Speaking of trade targets, Matt Carpenter could be an interesting one. The Cards are playing Edman, who out of the blue decided to play like a 4 WAR player, and I'm pretty sure they're salary contrained. Carpenter is average defensively at 1st and 3rd, and seems like a very good bounce-back candidate.

 

Sometimes you scare me bro.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I think he's just trying to say that Tulo, Martin, Pillar, Sanchez, Biagini (the fan favourites) weren't worth much in terms of value, when the FO traded them. You can't trade them for 'pennies on the dollar' when they aren't worth s*** to begin with.

 

That's obviously omitting Stro, who had lots of value when traded. Time will tell if we actually traded him for 'pennies on the dollar' of if we got something of value for him. People like Grant suggesting they 'know' we traded them for less than their actual value are fooling themselves. None of us have any idea.

 

I was talking Tulo and Martin. They weren't (aren't) worth much but so many bitchers and moaners seem to think they were worth way more than they were when they were traded and we were screwed. For me that is clearly not the case. I think Sanchez sucks, and was worth hardly anything. Biagini? Dime a dozen. Fisher sucks so far, sure, but it's not like Biagini and Sanchez are heading to Cooperstown and the FO was massively screwed.

 

JD was f***ing hurt. Merryweather may not amount to anything, but c'mon man, you're not going to get much for a few weeks of a hurt player. Cashman wouldn't have gotten more.

 

I don't think we received pennies on the dollars for Stro' either. I wasn't sure about the trade when it happened, but I think we may have traded for two decent starters. Time will tell.

 

I am just really sick of the "pennies on the dollar" rhetoric. It's lazy complaining.

[G-Snarls]

I can't think of a single comp for the Donaldson trade. Dude was traded while still injured on August 31st, and didn't get into a game until mid-September. I think there are legit arguments to be made about his handling, but the trade return given the circumstances doesn't strike me as being weak.

 

The only real alternative was to hold on to him and give him a qualifying offer, and perhaps simultaneously try to negotiate an extension. Who knows how that would have worked out. And they probably didn't want to commit to more that 1-2 years given his health last year.