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Aaron Sanchez and Biagini Traded to Astros for Derek Fisher

Slade

By Slade
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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Krylian MVP

Krylian

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Oh oh Shaskins, Fisher is looking like s***

 

Yup. And Biagini, Sanchez, and Stevenson are setting the world on fire for the Astros

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Where would Pillar rank as Jays best OF this season?

 

Great D, 20 HRs, 75 RBI.

 

Just asking for a friend

 

Pillar would be second on the team in fWAR behind Gurriel, and would be an absolutely perfect 4th OF next season when presumably the team won't want to lose 100 games again. I'm hoping this offseason marks the beginning of a new era in which the team doesn't punt good players for nothing because they're older than 30 and make a few million dollars.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Pillar would be second on the team in fWAR behind Gurriel, and would be an absolutely perfect 4th OF next season when presumably the team won't want to lose 100 games again. I'm hoping this offseason marks the beginning of a new era in which the team doesn't punt good players for nothing because they're older than 30 and make a few million dollars.

 

I disagree with you. Pillar made almost $6M in arb2 this year. It would not have been worth the money and the roster spot to keep him through 2019 on the chance that he would project to retain enough skill through 2020 to be a viable 4th OF standing to make about $8M.

 

Recent free agency markets demonstrate that a team can sign a similar 4th OF for less than that. No sense staying married to Pillar.

 

It doesn't look like they got any player talent back for Pillar, in hindsight. That's unfortunate but at the time of the trade there was a reasonable chance that Law could have been a decent RP with control or De Paula could have been some sort of pitching prospect worth keeping.

 

There's also opportunity cost to keeping Pillar. Toronto found out this year that Gurriel looks like a good outfielder, in part because the outfield was wide open and there was room for him. They got to trial Grichuk and Teoscar in CF. They got to give guys lots of playing time in the OF and evaluate talent. Pillar's presence awkwardly gets in the way of some of that.

BTS GOAT

BTS

Community Moderator
Posted
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I disagree with you. Pillar made almost $6M in arb2 this year. It would not have been worth the money and the roster spot to keep him through 2019 on the chance that he would project to retain enough skill through 2020 to be a viable 4th OF standing to make about $8M.

 

Recent free agency markets demonstrate that a team can sign a similar 4th OF for less than that. No sense staying married to Pillar.

 

It doesn't look like they got any player talent back for Pillar, in hindsight. That's unfortunate but at the time of the trade there was a reasonable chance that Law could have been a decent RP with control or De Paula could have been some sort of pitching prospect worth keeping.

 

There's also opportunity cost to keeping Pillar. Toronto found out this year that Gurriel looks like a good outfielder, in part because the outfield was wide open and there was room for him. They got to trial Grichuk and Teoscar in CF. They got to give guys lots of playing time in the OF and evaluate talent. Pillar's presence awkwardly gets in the way of some of that.

 

I guess we're just in a bit of a weird place right now regarding market value of vets making a bit of money, and I'm still having a hard time making sense of it. In the past, Pillar would have been moved for an actual prospect or two and the whole thing would be less blatantly about not wanting to pay 6M for a couple of wins. Now, a 30-year old 2-win player making 6M doesn't really have any value around the league, and teams are just punting those guys for payroll savings.

 

I wonder if this is the new norm or just a temporary blip. We've seen a bunch of playoff teams get big contributions from FAs that signed for surprisingly cheap in the offseason, and guys who were given away for next to nothing because of their salaries (Pillar, Roark for example) have provided value to the teams that were willing to pay them.

 

Free agency, almost overnight, became an efficient way to buy wins. I'm guessing that's not a permanent change.

Laika Cooperstown

Laika

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Free agency, almost overnight, became an efficient way to buy wins. I'm guessing that's not a permanent change.

 

That's not exactly obvious.

 

Improvements in player development and player projection seem to have made it much more likely that players breaking in (league minimum players) will contribute. Even in San Francisco, Mike Yastrzemski, Austin Slater, and Alex Dickerson have all been as good as Pillar, maybe even better than Pillar.

 

Teams are also rightfully petrified of the downside risk on free agent contracts.

 

Who really knows anymore. It could have been a market over-correction or it could have been appropriate.

saskjayfan Dunedin Blue Jays

saskjayfan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
That's not exactly obvious.

 

Improvements in player development and player projection seem to have made it much more likely that players breaking in (league minimum players) will contribute. Even in San Francisco, Mike Yastrzemski, Austin Slater, and Alex Dickerson have all been as good as Pillar, maybe even better than Pillar.

 

Teams are also rightfully petrified of the downside risk on free agent contracts.

 

Who really knows anymore. It could have been a market over-correction or it could have been appropriate.

 

Pillar at one year 8 seems like a bargain now that we're tied to Grichuk to 4 more years! I know it's hindsight and that's unfair, but you have to be a little worried about that contract moving forward.

The Cats Ass Buffalo Bisons

The Cats Ass

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pillar would be second on the team in fWAR behind Gurriel, and would be an absolutely perfect 4th OF next season when presumably the team won't want to lose 100 games again. I'm hoping this offseason marks the beginning of a new era in which the team doesn't punt good players for nothing because they're older than 30 and make a few million dollars.

 

A case could be made for Hernandez too. He's accumulated more WAR than Pillar in the 2nd half.

The Cats Ass Buffalo Bisons

The Cats Ass

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Pillar at one year 8 seems like a bargain now that we're tied to Grichuk to 4 more years! I know it's hindsight and that's unfair, but you have to be a little worried about that contract moving forward.

 

If we were the Rays, maybe. But even then probably not. He's averaged over 2 WAR the past 4 seasons, and has just turned 28. This contract could easily produce value. Sorry you can't see that. Pillar is 3 years older and has been declining in value ever since 2015.

Angrioter MVP

Angrioter

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Also, Luhnow says RHP Aaron Sanchez will not return to play this season. He will have a procedure on his right shoulder next week and team will have more information afterwards regarding his rehab and return to throwing.
Barkerfan23 Draft Eligible

Barkerfan23

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Looks like Sanchez is out for the season with shoulder surgery. I guess Shatkins assessment was right after all. This guy cannot stay healthy.

 

That's why you need big fat pitchers

 

They stay the healthiest

Key22 Draft Eligible

Key22

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

That trade doesn't look so bad in hindsight. Sanchez done for the year and may be released this off season. Biagini sent to the minors and is basically AAAA caliber pitcher. Lotto ticket Stevenson for Fisher

 

Meh.

metafour First Round Pick

metafour

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I’d still rather have Biagini and Stevenson. Fisher is garbage.

 

Yeah but you're a f***ing idiot, so who really cares what you'd rather have. Amirite?

Cynical College Ball

Cynical

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
The issue here isn't Sanchez, the issue is how many years Shatkins has tried to acquire Fisher for. He did the same with Grichuk. That's concerning. The guy doesn't seem to know how to evaluate major league talent and he's the GM.
Deadpool Buffalo Bisons

Deadpool

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The issue here isn't Sanchez, the issue is how many years Shatkins has tried to acquire Fisher for. He did the same with Grichuk. That's concerning. The guy doesn't seem to know how to evaluate major league talent and he's the GM.

 

What the f***? He's got Fisher for many years at basically zero dollars, and that's a problem?

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