Blue jays all time greatest players

[FDJAYS]

Just thought this would be a fun discussion are we in agreement with the nine players chosen in this greatest players memorabilia piece (see attached pic)?

Who would you have instead? Josh Donaldson has to be very close.

Edited July 16, 2019 by FDJAYS

[jays4life19]

Ryan Goins, JP Arencibia and Rowdy Tellez

[Carlos Danger]

Just thought this would be a fun discussion are we in agreement with the nine players chosen in this greatest players piece? Who would you have instead? Josh Donaldson has to be very close.

 

Lot's to debate about that.. Two Cy Young winners, one developed in org and an MVP left off. No closer....of some of our good ones..

 

*I also forgot a batting champ...

 

Rowdy Tellez still has a chance...

Edited July 16, 2019 by Carlos Danger

[FrozenRopes]

Brett Lawrie

[Brownie19]

It includes Joe Carter - the list is s***. End of debate.

[Krylian]

Garth Iorg

[Spanky99]

It includes Joe Carter - the list is s***. End of debate.

 

Yup, punt Carter and Key(I say this as a huge fan), and put in 2 of Donaldson, Clemens or Olerud. The former two, weighs a little heavier.

[JuniorFelix]

Well, Junior Felix for starters.

[Carlos Danger]

Ex-Player (The BJMB one).

[Orgfiller]

Yup, punt Carter and Key(I say this as a huge fan), and put in 2 of Donaldson, Clemens or Olerud. The former two, weighs a little heavier.

 

Jimmy Key is fine, he's 3rd among Blue Jays pitchers in fWAR and 7th overall, and he would rate even higher by RA9 WAR. Totally worthy on being on the list. Joe Carter though... yeah no. The thing about Clemens is that while he had his two year peak in his career with us, he was still only on the team for two seasons lol. He's easily our best player ever, but I wouldn't say he's among the greatest Blue Jays.

[Grant77]

Jimmy Key is fine, he's 3rd among Blue Jays pitchers in fWAR and 7th overall, and he would rate even higher by RA9 WAR. Totally worthy on being on the list. Joe Carter though... yeah no. The thing about Clemens is that while he had his two year peak in his career with us, he was still only on the team for two seasons lol. He's easily our best player ever, but I wouldn't say he's among the greatest Blue Jays.

 

 

 

You could make a case for Rickey Henderson as well, especially if you want to factor in the steroid stuff.

[DigitalRock]

Joe Carter is easily the most overrated Blue Jays player ever.

[Olerud363]

You could make a case for Rickey Henderson as well, especially if you want to factor in the steroid stuff.

 

For some reason I can't see the list... hmmm.

 

Is Carter on the list and Olerud not?? Is FWAR true or not?? Olerud has 57 fWAR, and 22 with Jays. I think Carter is 17 and 8.

 

Why is Carter on the list?? How many of the players on the list have more career fWAR than Olerud?? Where does Olerud rank in position player fWAR for players developed by the Jays??

[AintNoThang]

He may not be one of the greatest, but Barfield will always be my favorite.

[Spanky99]

He may not be one of the greatest, but Barfield will always be my favorite.

 

My favourite position player back then.

[Orgfiller]

He may not be one of the greatest, but Barfield will always be my favorite.

 

Barfield is 4th in fWAR among position players.

[AintNoThang]

Barfield is 4th in fWAR among position players.

 

"If you ain't first, you're last!" - Ricky Bobby

[FDJAYS]

[FDJAYS]

Joe Carter is in the top 3 and definitely in the top 9 of every list I've ever seen put out so it would make sense for him to be in a memorabilia piece with 9 cards:

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-toronto-blue-jays-of-all-time/ranker-baseball

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/revealing-sportsnets-greatest-blue-jays-top-20/

https://www.sportsbreak.com/mlb/the-15-greatest-toronto-blue-jays-of-all-time/

[Spanky99]

Ughhh... Carter at 3 in two of those are just silly.

[Dick_Pole]

Carter is in this and every list for good reason that everyone knows. Nobody remembers or cares about his flailing around in the outfield, blaming the Skydome lights, except the stats that have been invented after the fact. There is more to it about these meaningless lists than your stupid f***ing WAR counts.

[Bobthe4th]

Joe Carter is in the top 3 and definitely in the top 9 of every list I've ever seen put out so it would make sense for him to be in a memorabilia piece with 9 cards:

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-toronto-blue-jays-of-all-time/ranker-baseball

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/revealing-sportsnets-greatest-blue-jays-top-20/

https://www.sportsbreak.com/mlb/the-15-greatest-toronto-blue-jays-of-all-time/

 

Popular is very different to greatest. It’s justifiable to have him in a list of most popular Jays players.

 

To put it in context, Carter’s Jays career WAR is 7.4 (less than the likes of Zaun and Lawrie) and includes just as many negative seasons as positive. Most of the players in contention for a greatest list have put up multiple seasons of 5+ WAR.

[Terminator]

Carter is in this and every list for good reason that everyone knows. Nobody remembers or cares about his flailing around in the outfield, blaming the Skydome lights, except the stats that have been invented after the fact. There is more to it about these meaningless lists than your stupid f***ing WAR counts.

 

He wasn't even that bad if you include WAR he just played in an era where no one realized that old players sucked and the Jays chose to employ him as a middle of the order bat from age 35-37. On the tail end of his prime years from age 31-33 when the Jays were going for it he delivered. Threw up 9.5 WAR in 3 seasons and delivered the biggest hit in franchise history. Dude was damn good for us.

 

For a Mt. Rushmore, yeah leave him off if you want. But for a list of 9 players? Throw him on there why not?

[BigCecil]

Carter is in this and every list for good reason that everyone knows. Nobody remembers or cares about his flailing around in the outfield, blaming the Skydome lights, except the stats that have been invented after the fact. There is more to it about these meaningless lists than your stupid f***ing WAR counts.

 

LOL....that made me laugh. spoken with your "flair". Fair points but man he was over rated. Sitting Olerud so he could play 1B is a face palm.

 

But I''ll never ever forget Timlin flipping it to him on 1B off of the Nixon bunt or his line drive over LF in 93 and "touch em all Joe..." which was as big as it gets. So I get why he is there 100%.

 

Sigh....I want that again. It was awesome. f***ing 2015 KC ******** calls etc etc etc etc

[Spanky99]

Carter is in this and every list for good reason that everyone knows. Nobody remembers or cares about his flailing around in the outfield, blaming the Skydome lights, except the stats that have been invented after the fact. There is more to it about these meaningless lists than your stupid f***ing WAR counts.

 

The hit was iconic, but I'm not using WAR either, just my opinion as Blue Jays.

[Olerud363]

The hit was iconic, but I'm not using WAR either, just my opinion as Blue Jays.

 

He was the 6th best player on the World Series teams. White, Olerud, Alomar, Winfield/Molitor/, Lee/Fernandez were all better.

 

He was closer to Candy Maldonado or Ed Sprague in terms of production, than White/Alomar/Molitor/Olerud.

 

(edit) by closer I mean Carter beat Candy 2.9 to 2.3, he beat Sprague, 2-1.4... White/Alomar/Olerud/Molitor were like 6ish WAR player in 92/93.

[Spanky99]

He was the 6th best player on the World Series teams. White, Olerud, Alomar, Winfield/Molitor/, Lee/Fernandez were all better.

 

He was closer to Candy Maldonado or Ed Sprague in terms of production, than White/Alomar/Molitor/Olerud.

 

(edit) by closer I mean Carter beat Candy 2.9 to 2.3, he beat Sprague, 2-1.4... White/Alomar/Olerud/Molitor were like 6ish WAR player in 92/93.

 

I know Olerud.

[Olerud363]

I'm just bringing up WAR now because it's easy to use to make point.

 

Even in 92/93 fans were starting to look at on base percentage, position, baserunning, estimates of defense and putting rough values on players, and we knew Carter wasn't that good.

 

Unfortunately the Jays didn't and built the 94-97 team around him as every other key player left.. didn't work out well.

[Olerud363]

I know Olerud.

 

I know you know. I wasn't aiming the post at you. More at people who weren't old enough to watch that team, or didn't realize where Carter actually ranked when you look at him with modern analytics.

 

It's like if Vlad and Bo and Biggio all develop like we hope they will and put up 15 WAR each for 3 years and the Jays win the world series... but

 

Randall Grichuk is allowed to hit 3rd for 162 games a year and all the fans think he's the best player... Wouldn't happen in this day and age... or maybe it will with Montoyo.

[Olerud363]

I know you know. I wasn't aiming the post at you. More at people who weren't old enough to watch that team, or didn't realize where Carter actually ranked when you look at him with modern analytics.

 

It's like if Vlad and Bo and Biggio all develop like we hope they will and put up 15 WAR each for 3 years and the Jays win the world series... but

 

Randall Grichuk is allowed to hit 3rd for 162 games a year and all the fans think he's the best player... Wouldn't happen in this day and age... or maybe it will with Montoyo.

 

Biggio .270 .390 .450 (6 WAR)

Bichette .300 .350 ..480 (5 WAR)

Grichuk .250 .300 .490 120 RBI (2.8 WAR)

Vlad .330 .450 .600 115 RBI (7 WAR)

 

fans - Grichuk is the key. The guy you count on to drive in runs. More RBIs then Vlad.