Around Baseball 2019

[RobinThicc]

I think he gets a massive suspension

 

And I think Luhnow gets fired or resigns. So much bad PR the last two years he won't survive this. No matter how successful the team has been.

Could see that happening.

 

They did give John Coppolella a life time ban, and I dont think that situation was nearly as bad as this.

 

Other teams may be doing what the Astros have done, but I think the league should send message by using the Astros as an example.

 

Either way, I'd like to see a serious price paid.

[BTS]

Vernon Wells is a certified player agent now.

[Grant77]

Vernon Wells is a certified player agent now.

 

Good for him. Vernon Wells is a fantastic guy, it's nice to see him still involved in the game.

[BTS]

Good for him. Vernon Wells is a fantastic guy, it's nice to see him still involved in the game.

 

Yeah, he always came off as a intelligent and a genuinely good guy. Shame that he's mostly remembered as an overpaid anchor, but its good to see him back in baseball.

[Laika]

Yeah, he always came off as a intelligent and a genuinely good guy. Shame that he's mostly remembered as an overpaid anchor, but its good to see him back in baseball.

 

I think enough time has passed for that to not be the case anymore. At least for Blue Jays fans, I would say that most people remember him simply as the team's best position player in the 2000s (yes, I am aware that he is probably not the #1 position player in fWAR from 2000-2009).

[Brownie19]

I think he gets a massive suspension

 

And I think Luhnow gets fired or resigns. So much bad PR the last two years he won't survive this. No matter how successful the team has been.

 

The Astros had to know some ex-player would eventually rat them out right?

 

I wonder what will happen if other ex-players rat out other teams now - before any investigation is complete or punishments handed down. I think I've seen others claim the Brewers and another couple (Red Sox?) also use cameras to steal signs.

[glory]

Wells seems like a good dude so happy for him but man, every time I read his name it reminds me of how s***** and unmemorable the 2000's were for the Jays. As much as I rag on AA for his short sighted trades, I'm so glad that 2015-16 happened to wipe out so much irrelevancy from my memory. As great as Doc was he was pitching for teams that never sniffed the playoffs. Other than him and the first half of the 2000's with Delgado, it was a pretty brutal decade for the Jays from pretty much all angles. Even the uniforms sucked.

[Dr. Dinger]

The newest Astros scandal raises an intersting question. A lot of people on this board have speculated that they are somehow cheating with regards to pitching, to increase spin rate for the pitchers they acquire who suddenly take their repertoires to a new level. You'd think that if Fiers was going to rat them out for stealing signs, he would rat them out for cheating at pitching too, no?

[Laika]

The newest Astros scandal raises an intersting question. A lot of people on this board have speculated that they are somehow cheating with regards to pitching, to increase spin rate for the pitchers they acquire who suddenly take their repertoires to a new level. You'd think that if Fiers was going to rat them out for stealing signs, he would rat them out for cheating at pitching too, no?

 

Baseball has brought this mechanical sign stealing blight upon itself by refusing to enforce the rules around foreign substances.

 

I think the prevailing thought with the mechanical sign stealing by the Astros and whichever other teams have done it has probably been that it's close enough to what is accepted within the written and unwritten rules. It has always been accepted that players on the field are allowed to pick up on pitching signs and relay them. It has probably been about as accepted that if coaches can pick up on signals coming from the dugout with their eyeballs, that's fair game too.

 

What gives these teams the confidence to make the leap to mechanical sign stealing is that MLB just does not seem to care all that much about strict rule compliance.

[KevinGregg]

You'd think that if Fiers was going to rat them out for stealing signs, he would rat them out for cheating at pitching too, no?

 

Not if he's still using whatever trick they taught him

[Brownie19]

Is stealing signs even against the rules of baseball? Or is this another unwritten rule thing?

 

Won't this fall into the same thing as steroids? (in that their use wasn't actually against the rules at one point)

 

 

Any history of football teams stealing signals/signs using cameras? I mean isn't that why coaches cover their mouth when sending the play in?

[Hipfan]

Is stealing signs even against the rules of baseball? Or is this another unwritten rule thing?

 

Won't this fall into the same thing as steroids? (in that their use wasn't actually against the rules at one point)

 

 

Any history of football teams stealing signals/signs using cameras? I mean isn't that why coaches cover their mouth when sending the play in?

 

Using cameras to steal signs is explicitly illegal. If a player/coach on the field steals a sign, that's ok, but teams are not allowed to use technology to do so.

[Brownie19]

Using cameras to steal signs is explicitly illegal. If a player/coach on the field steals a sign, that's ok, but teams are not allowed to use technology to do so.

 

That's in the rule book? It says you can steal signs with your eyes, but can't use technology to do so?

 

What if you use technology (ie, game film) to learn team signs and then use them with your eyes in the next game.

[TheHurl]

That's in the rule book? It says you can steal signs with your eyes, but can't use technology to do so?

 

What if you use technology (ie, game film) to learn team signs and then use them with your eyes in the next game.

 

In 2017 Manfred sent this out about stealing signs

 

“All 30 clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”

 

and in 2019

 

The concept of stealing signs in baseball has a long, unique and sometimes even shocking history, especially in the early days of the practice.

 

Now it is a matter of who uses their technology and on Wednesday a report by Sports Illustrated emerged stating MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred is implementing new rules to guard against the high-tech gamesmanship of recent seasons.

 

Last season after there were several instances of alleged sign stealing from catchers, Manfred vowed to get new rules in place.

 

Existing rules prohibited stealing a sign from any place besides a runner on second base and now the rule updates to include measures that address using new technology to gain an advantage.

 

 

According to Sports Illustrated's report, the new rules include the following:

 

Banning in-house outfield cameras from foul pole to foul pole

 

Limiting live broadcasts to the team's designated replay official, who gets monitored by a security expert

Putting any other TV monitors, including those in the clubhouse and bullpens on an eight-second delay.

Making each club provide to MLB an audit of every in-house camera, its purpose, its wiring and where it can be viewed.

[L54]

Are people seriously confused why using cameras and technology to steal signs is generally more frowned upon than relaying signs from second?

 

Yes Brownie, maybe in the MLB rule book it doesn't say it's illegal to plant a camera in CF, have it synced behind the dugout, and notify hitters whether or not a change up is coming by banging on garbage cans. But let common sense prevail and what do you think? Does that seem like something you would consider a punishable offense?

[Spanky__99]

Are people seriously confused why using cameras and technology to steal signs is generally more frowned upon than relaying signs from second?

 

Yes Brownie, maybe in the MLB rule book it doesn't say it's illegal to plant a camera in CF, have it synced behind the dugout, and notify hitters whether or not a change up is coming by banging on garbage cans. But let common sense prevail and what do you think? Does that seem like something you would consider a punishable offense?

 

lol

[Brownie19]

Are people seriously confused why using cameras and technology to steal signs is generally more frowned upon than relaying signs from second?

 

Yes Brownie, maybe in the MLB rule book it doesn't say it's illegal to plant a camera in CF, have it synced behind the dugout, and notify hitters whether or not a change up is coming by banging on garbage cans. But let common sense prevail and what do you think? Does that seem like something you would consider a punishable offense?

 

C'mon man. I asked if stealing signs (in any form) was specifically in the rule book as being illegal. I was wondering if it's an official rule - or an unwritten rule. Hipfan said "using cameras to steal signs is explicitly illegal. If a player/coach on the field steals a sign, that's ok, but teams are not allowed to use technology to do so."

 

If that's true, I find it interesting (that the rules say stealing signs is legal, but only without the use of technology).

 

Then I simply posed a thought about how teams obviously use technology before or after a live game that helps players and coaches steal signs during games. So the rule is whittled down even more - the use of technology is only restricted to during live games.

 

Why you mad bruh?

[Orgfiller]

C'mon man. I asked if stealing signs (in any form) was specifically in the rule book as being illegal. I was wondering if it's an official rule - or an unwritten rule. Hipfan said "using cameras to steal signs is explicitly illegal. If a player/coach on the field steals a sign, that's ok, but teams are not allowed to use technology to do so."

 

If that's true, I find it interesting (that the rules say stealing signs is legal, but only without the use of technology).

 

Then I simply posed a thought about how teams obviously use technology before or after a live game that helps players and coaches steal signs during games. So the rule is whittled down even more - the use of technology is only restricted to during live games.

 

Why you mad bruh?

 

I just don't really understand how you don't see the distinction lol. During a game, assuming no one on base and the pitcher not tipping his pitches, the catcher is putting down signs under his crotch, no one but the pitcher is supposed to be seeing that. It's a significant competitive advantage for the hitters to know what every pitch being thrown is, that's why everyone makes a huge deal when a pitcher is tipping pitches because they usually tend to get shelled as a result. There is a big difference between a coach studying game tape to see if the pitcher/catcher have any tells and the use of instantaneous technology to communicate to the dugout and subsequently hitters what pitch is coming next.

 

Half the battle for hitters is guessing which pitch will be thrown next. If you can figure that out because the pitcher lowers his elbow prior to a curve then good for the hitters to pick up on it, and shame on the pitcher. I think there's a line between being clever and straight up cheating in a way which is against the integrity of the game, the competitive chess game between hitter and battery. The Astros, and seemingly any other team employing live technology to relay pitches, are on the wrong side of the line, and I think they should be punished for it.

[Brownie19]

I just don't really understand how you don't see the distinction lol. During a game, assuming no one on base and the pitcher not tipping his pitches, the catcher is putting down signs under his crotch, no one but the pitcher is supposed to be seeing that. It's a significant competitive advantage for the hitters to know what every pitch being thrown is, that's why everyone makes a huge deal when a pitcher is tipping pitches because they usually tend to get shelled as a result. There is a big difference between a coach studying game tape to see if the pitcher/catcher have any tells and the use of instantaneous technology to communicate to the dugout and subsequently hitters what pitch is coming next.

 

Half the battle for hitters is guessing which pitch will be thrown next. If you can figure that out because the pitcher lowers his elbow prior to a curve then good for the hitters to pick up on it, and shame on the pitcher. I think there's a line between being clever and straight up cheating in a way which is against the integrity of the game, the competitive chess game between hitter and battery. The Astros, and seemingly any other team employing live technology to relay pitches, are on the wrong side of the line, and I think they should be punished for it.

 

Man - I completely understand all of this. I wasn't trying to question this at all.

 

I was just trying to narrow down exactly what the rule book says regarding this matter (as I don't like unwritten rules).

 

 

I wonder how many teams study and learn signs from the 3rd base coach. It would be quite a nice advantage to know exactly when the team has called for a steal, bunt, hit and run, squeeze, etc.

[Spanky__99]

Man - I completely understand all of this. I wasn't trying to question this at all.

 

I was just trying to narrow down exactly what the rule book says regarding this matter (as I don't like unwritten rules).

 

 

I wonder how many teams study and learn signs from the 3rd base coach. It would be quite a nice advantage to know exactly when the team has called for a steal, bunt, hit and run, squeeze, etc.

 

All of them since likely the inception of signs.

[Brownie19]

All of them since likely the inception of signs.

 

Wouldn't teams just switch up their signs or use more elaborate signs to prevent this?

 

Do we think teams still steal the complicated multi-faceted signs that catchers use with runners on base?

[Spanky__99]

Wouldn't teams just switch up their signs or use more elaborate signs to prevent this?

 

Do we think teams still steal the complicated multi-faceted signs that catchers use with runners on base?

 

Can't see why not, especially if they pick a pattern up quickly.

[Abomination]

I wonder how many teams study and learn signs from the 3rd base coach. It would be quite a nice advantage to know exactly when the team has called for a steal, bunt, hit and run, squeeze, etc.

 

I think it's more likely they'd carefully watch all the position players who can see / get passed the sign. There's a lot of people who could potentially tip a pitch, and it should be observable from the batters box.

[BTS]

If you count arb projections, the Braves have now committed 45.7M to Melancon, Smith, Martin, Greene, Jackson, and O'Day in 2020.

[Spanky__99]

It still happens right around are corners, be safe.

[saskjayfan]

If you count arb projections, the Braves have now committed 45.7M to Melancon, Smith, Martin, Greene, Jackson, and O'Day in 2020.

 

So the Braves bullpen is being paid more than the projected active roster for the Jays at this point, but we couldn't possibly be in play on top free agents. Scrooge McDuck must be running the finances for this team.

[Spanky__99]

It still happens right around are corners, be safe.

 

Smart ass bastard, lol

[Jimcanuck]

So the Braves bullpen is being paid more than the projected active roster for the Jays at this point, but we couldn't possibly be in play on top free agents. Scrooge McDuck must be running the finances for this team.

 

Jays are in a great position, financially and prospect wise. Nothing will ruin that position faster than bad investment decisions. It's also, November.

[saskjayfan]

Jays are in a great position, financially and prospect wise. Nothing will ruin that position faster than bad investment decisions. It's also, November.

 

the Jays drew 1.7 million fans last year. Their revenues have plummeted so financially we're not exactly setting the world on fire.

[Ex Player]

To say Vazquez's life and baseball career are over would be an understatement:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2863433-pirates-felipe-vazquez-facing-21-new-charges-in-child-pornography-case?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

 

Also, Felipe didnt kill himself