Around Baseball 2019

[Bobthe4th]

I don't think the length of the game is an issue. NFL games and MLB games last roughly the same amount of time, and the same amount of downtime between plays. I think what it comes down to is the number of games that are played and the action that is involved. NFL gameplay is just more entertaining to the masses because it's "faster." Baseball is "boring." A 16 game NFL season makes people pumped up for each game because there are so few (4% of the year). The Blue Jays play about 44% of the year if they don't make the playoffs. MLB is in a hard situation. How can you make something that happens half the year exciting to people with short attention spans?

 

The NFL is the perfect example of how limited, spaced out games allow hype to be built up.

 

On paper there’s no reason why NFL should be significantly more popular than MLB. Both appeal to American patriotism, both are sports with lots of stoppages and little actual game time, both have long histories with iconic teams and players, both have billionaire owners with lots of surplus cash for marketing etc.

 

But team’s playing one game a week allow fans time to reflect “you see that touchdown?” “Can’t wait to see how the team react in the next game” etc. In baseball any regular season game looked at in isolation is irrelevant. The very best teams still lose 50+ games, and they play the same team multiple days in a row.

[glory]

Yeah I don’t know when it will happen, probably when it’s already too late, but at some point they will lower the amount of games played in a season and shorten the season in general (late March to f’n November is insanely long).

[Abomination]

Yeah I don’t know when it will happen, probably when it’s already too late, but at some point they will lower the amount of games played in a season and shorten the season in general (late March to f’n November is insanely long).

 

I doubt it, too much money is involved. IMO the only way they decrease the number of regular season games is if they increase the playoffs.

[Bobthe4th]

Baseball has also followed the NBA in terms of teams intentionally tanking, and there's a lot of them now, so when more than half the league sucks ass and there are 162 games in a season, it's a really bad combination. They might have to start a system that does not incentivize rebuilding. Like there was nothing preventing the Jays from signing Morton, Happ, and Brantley (assuming they all had interest in signing with the Jays) while still hoarding prospects and rebuilding the farm system in the background. Instead they chose to sit on the money and purposely suck. Good for the team in terms of draft position and stuff like that, but horrible for the game when the majority of other teams are doing the same thing.

 

Also, analytics (while it makes sense to use) probably bores the hell out of the casual viewer. Watch an episode of Inside the NBA with Barkley, Shaq, Kenny Smith, and Ernie Johnson. No one says a word about in depth stats. It's a bunch of guys shooting the breeze, making fun of each other, and watching basketball. It is simply more fun to watch even if you're not a basketball fan. In baseball, you either listen to Brian Kenny types or Harold Reynolds types. It's boring and unentertaining.

 

Like I said this goes beyond cosmetic changes to the game. I think baseball should change a little bit, hell, look at the NBA during Jordan's time versus today. It's night and day. They changed so many rules but the NBA is more popular than ever. Baseball has to make some cosmetic changes, but also have to market the game better. Manfred has the toughest job of any commish in sports. Saving MLB long term is going to be very tough.

 

Completely correct.

 

Tanking and the mentality of win or bust is awful for fans, but it is incentivised by the draft and closed league system. The 162 games and only 6+4 teams making the playoffs magnifies the issue. I know it’d never happen in MLB, but in European sports the threat of relegation means excitement for fans of all teams not just title contenders, and every game is important. Not sure what the answer is here.

 

Your other point is also spot on. One of the reasons sports are so popular is that it gives you a chance to talk to your mates about your favourite players and teams. Debates about who is the best, whether so and so is overrated etc. Analytics in baseball are by far the most relevant and accurate, you can literally see who is the best player by looking it up on a spreadsheet. That is boring to the majority of people. Advanced stats in sports like NBA aren’t as valid or reliable because of the vast number of variables so if anything they can aid a debate but not end one.

[Bobthe4th]

I doubt it, too much money is involved. IMO the only way they decrease the number of regular season games is if they increase the playoffs.

 

Which will happen eventually.

[glory]

I doubt it, too much money is involved. IMO the only way they decrease the number of regular season games is if they increase the playoffs.

 

Decreasing the number of regular season games while more teams make the post season is something that I will absolutely hate but seems like the only real compromise. More teams in means more fan interest in more cities. Right now the AL has like 4 good teams and whoever this year’s version of the 2018 A’s will be. That’s about it. Attendance and ratings are going to suck worse than ever before.

 

There also should be a way to make tanking less appealing. I’m sure one sport will figure it out and the rest will follow.

 

Man baseball needs to change so many things and we will be lucky to see any real change any time soon.

[Jimcanuck]

It doesn't help that so many pitchers go down for TJS or on/off DL and many elite pitchers with significantly shortened careers compared to the past.

 

Who prefers to watch Thor or Reyes instead of Corey Oswalt or John Gant?

 

No idea what could be done to mitigate this.....

[Spanky__99]

It doesn't help that so many pitchers go down for TJS or on/off DL and many elite pitchers with significantly shortened careers compared to the past.

 

Who prefers to watch Thor or Reyes instead of Corey Oswalt or John Gant?

 

No idea what could be done to mitigate this.....

 

Mitigate injury, not too much?

[bendera3]

Completely correct.

 

Tanking and the mentality of win or bust is awful for fans, but it is incentivised by the draft and closed league system. The 162 games and only 6+4 teams making the playoffs magnifies the issue. I know it’d never happen in MLB, but in European sports the threat of relegation means excitement for fans of all teams not just title contenders, and every game is important. Not sure what the answer is here.

.

 

To deter tanking perhaps MLB could do a draft like the NBA does where lets say the 15 best teams record-wise have a set draft position and the other 15 teams have a lottery for their draft position for the entire draft.

[Daniel Labude]

To deter tanking perhaps MLB could do a draft like the NBA does where lets say the 15 best teams record-wise have a set draft position and the other 15 teams have a lottery for their draft position for the entire draft.

 

That would be really bad imo

[devo]

How about draft order is determined by the best record among non-playoff teams? Would certainly stop the culture of tanking.

[Ehjays]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/mets-payroll-2019.html

 

Wow, I cant believe the Mets still have Bret Saberhagen, Bobby Bonilla and Darryl Strawberry on payroll until 2029 and Bonilla and Strawberry being paid 1.6 million and 1.19 million to 2033 and 2035 respectively.....that's insane!!

[Terminator]

I knew about Bonilla but I did not know about those other guys. Johan Santana and David Wright also making big chunks of change coming up as well. Unreal.

[Bobthe4th]

My personal favourite deferred salary deal is Chris Davis getting paid until 2037.

 

$3.5m a year until 2032 then $1.4m a year until 2037. He’s not even worth $3.5m a year right now!

[Daniel Labude]

[Deadpool]

 

 

For the lazy amongst us... y'know... like me...

 

Edit: Or maybe the tweet embed isn't working... I tried, sorry guys!

[Dick_Pole]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/mets-payroll-2019.html

 

Wow, I cant believe the Mets still have Bret Saberhagen, Bobby Bonilla and Darryl Strawberry on payroll until 2029 and Bonilla and Strawberry being paid 1.6 million and 1.19 million to 2033 and 2035 respectively.....that's insane!!

 

You guys make fun, but there is a reasonable theory to this. Defer paying players for as long as possible and inflation will mitigate the impact of their salary. Really how much does $1.6M get you now? A s***** reliever?

 

The Mets did these types of deals because their money was managed by Bernie Madoff and he was always making killer returns.

 

Now of course with people talking about baseball in decline (supposedly with salaries inflation slowing), these types of contracts become far more risky.

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah baseball is seen as the most traditional of the main North American sports, which appeals to a lot of the existing fanbase but doesn’t do well in attracting new fans. The unwritten rules ******** is not a good selling point to new fans.

 

For example basketball has changed significantly to encourage exciting play, plus the marketing of their stars since Jordan has made NBA popular around the world. There’s no magic change that’ll “fix” MLB, but changing nothing is not a sensible option when the other existing flaws with the sport exist too.

 

They tried changing baseball to make it more exciting and marketable in the early 2000's and the end result is that Clemens and Bonds can't get into the HOF because a bunch of 140 pound writers who still manage to have beer bellies have decided what an athlete should be.

[Dick_Pole]

The game has gotten more boring over time. And I don't see the baseball characters the guys that were famous anymore. Where are the Billy Martins, the Errol Weavers, the guys that stir up s*** lol. Has MLB in its 'wisdom', discouraged this behaviour?

 

Rickey Henderson was damn exciting to watch. Tim Raines. Manufacturing runs by speed / SBs, the interaction between the baserunner, the catcher, the pitcher and the hitter could be quite intense to watch. Doesn't happen to the same extent.

 

MLB really needs to find a way to stop the holding back of guys like Vlad, Eloy, etc. 2018 would have been a whole lot more exciting for Jays/Chisox fans if those guys came up midseason and did a Soto. The rise of Soto was one of the big 2018 things, MLB could have had three of those.

 

Do some more things to speed up the game. Like when a reliever comes in, get rid of the 8 preparatory pitches, already threw plenty of pitches in the bullpen. Just pitch. If a reliever is brought in, must pitch to minimum 3 batters. f*** the reliever for 1 batter, another for 1 batter, etc. Too f'ing slow.

 

Put some positional controls on the shift, increase offense.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

I actually agree with what Jim says about stolen bases and limiting pitching changes.

 

Stat nerds and the pursuit of roster efficiency have played a role in making the game less exciting.

 

The worst thing that could have happened to baseball is the Tampa Bay Rays. Instead of putting the Rays in a market that can support a $100M+ salary they have to let that atrocity of a franchise find new ways to exploit every possible loophole to compete and then other teams have to follow suit.

 

Instead of drafting and developing pitchers who are good enough to get players out in the first and ninth innings (because drafting and developing pitchers is risky), we're going to get a bunch of fringe specialized pitchers who are interchangeable and easily moved between the 25-man roster and AAA. Even worse if the league decides to expand beyond 27 players. So now instead of the classic Maddux versus Gwynn type of matchups, you'll have your star hitters face four different Joe Blow Nobodies during the course of the game. That does not help marketability.

 

Now imagine if you had an NBA team with unlimited roster changes and in-game specialization. You go to central Sudan and find yourself a couple of 8-foot tall 180 pound Manute Bol clones and stick them at the back end of your roster. Every defensive play you have them stand in the paint with their 11 foot reach and once your team takes back the ball you change on the fly and put competent shooters in. Extreme example but that is what baseball is turning into with relief pitchers right now.

[Spanky__99]

They tried changing baseball to make it more exciting and marketable in the early 2000's and the end result is that Clemens and Bonds can't get into the HOF because a bunch of 140 pound writers who still manage to have beer bellies have decided what an athlete should be.

 

Hahaha... well done.

[Spanky__99]

 

For the lazy amongst us... y'know... like me...

 

Edit: Or maybe the tweet embed isn't working... I tried, sorry guys!

 

It works, you just have to refresh to see it yourself, one of the boards minor issues.

[Jimcanuck]

Say what you will about AA, but he was always good at keeping stuff under wraps. Braves are my guess as the mystery team for Harper.

[Jimcanuck]

As for the Jays and Harper, bad idea IMO. Jays will be Vladdy's team, the prima donna Harper won't like being 2nd fiddle.

[glory]

Steroid ball saved baseball, and now it's looked down upon while the game sinks into obscurity.

 

What a joke.

[Grant77]

As for the Jays and Harper, bad idea IMO. Jays will be Vladdy's team, the prima donna Harper won't like being 2nd fiddle.

 

Oh please...

[glory]

Shatkins doesn't really put much value on defence (at least so far in their tenure). They like exit velocity, barrels, launch angle, etc, so Bryce is like the perfect Atkins player. The Jays won't be getting him, but kinda wish they were less risk averse and more willing to jump on opportunities, assuming of course that Harper would even want to sign in Toronto (he probably doesn't).

[Jimcanuck]

Oh please...

 

Harper does have a big ego

[Laika]

As for the Jays and Harper, bad idea IMO. Jays will be Vladdy's team, the prima donna Harper won't like being 2nd fiddle.

 

Jim it's "Pre Madonna". The phrase came from the pop music star, Madonna.

[Jimcanuck]

Anyway, the Nats not seeming to be making much of an effort to re-sign him is telling

[Rusty_Savage]

Anyway, the Nats not seeming to be making much of an effort to re-sign him is telling

 

Didn't they offer him 300 million?