Around Baseball 2019

[Bobthe4th]

It's kind of weird, because MLB has the blueprint for sports streaming (MLBAM) that some other leagues and networks use as their streaming backbone.

 

There's a lot of reasons why MLB is falling by the wayside though. And one thing you mentioned is highly relevant; the game hasn't changed.

 

Yeah baseball is seen as the most traditional of the main North American sports, which appeals to a lot of the existing fanbase but doesn’t do well in attracting new fans. The unwritten rules ******** is not a good selling point to new fans.

 

For example basketball has changed significantly to encourage exciting play, plus the marketing of their stars since Jordan has made NBA popular around the world. There’s no magic change that’ll “fix” MLB, but changing nothing is not a sensible option when the other existing flaws with the sport exist too.

[jaysblue]

A couple of reasons why it might be tough to draw a lot of hype and the casual fan to watch MLB games during the year:

 

1) April-June: this is the time when both the NHL Playoffs and NBA Playoffs are on. Here in Canada, do you think people in Toronto will care about the Jays in April/May when the Leafs and Raptors are making deep playoff runs? What about viewership across Canada when the Flames or Jets are on? Even in some parts of the US, especially in the north regions, baseball probably isn't that popular during April & May.

 

2) NFL starting up in September: for the most part, majority of MLB teams are out of it, and with the NFL season starting, likely the fanbases of those teams and casuals don't care anymore since its a lost season anyways. More casuals will tune into the NFL every Sunday.

 

3) There are 162 games over a full season and most of the games are really long in comparison to basketball or hockey. Baseball games likely last between 3-4 hours on average and for someone who is a casual fan, it could be a lot. NBA games are fast paced and there is always something happening. It's tough to get excited about a baseball game every night in comparison to games in the NBA. There seems to be more buildup to a regular season Lakers/Warriors game than there is for a Yankees/Red Sox series. Maybe because in the NBA those teams only face each other 3-4 times versus 18 times like in baseball.

 

4) The NBA is a star driven league: NBA teams only carry 12 players on the active roster and its not like everyone on the bench plays. In the NBA, one or two superstars can carry a team, where in baseball that doesn't work. So it's easier to promote guys like Steph Curry, LeBron, Giannis, Harden etc. We have even seen a player like Giannis carry his team, whereas in baseball that doesn't work. Just look at the Angels all these years with Mike Trout.

 

Casuals prefer going to baseball games only in the summer. It's an afternoon or night out with a group of friends. They don't even go to Blue Jays games to watch any of the game. More just to sit in the stands, get some sun, talk, drink beer and to take selfies. 2-3 games over the course of the summer are enough for these kind of people.

[Pendleton]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25893836/inside-37-year-old-pitcher-luke-hagerty-improbable-comeback-story

[Jimcanuck]

The game has gotten more boring over time. And I don't see the baseball characters the guys that were famous anymore. Where are the Billy Martins, the Errol Weavers, the guys that stir up s*** lol. Has MLB in its 'wisdom', discouraged this behaviour?

 

Rickey Henderson was damn exciting to watch. Tim Raines. Manufacturing runs by speed / SBs, the interaction between the baserunner, the catcher, the pitcher and the hitter could be quite intense to watch. Doesn't happen to the same extent.

 

MLB really needs to find a way to stop the holding back of guys like Vlad, Eloy, etc. 2018 would have been a whole lot more exciting for Jays/Chisox fans if those guys came up midseason and did a Soto. The rise of Soto was one of the big 2018 things, MLB could have had three of those.

 

Do some more things to speed up the game. Like when a reliever comes in, get rid of the 8 preparatory pitches, already threw plenty of pitches in the bullpen. Just pitch. If a reliever is brought in, must pitch to minimum 3 batters. f*** the reliever for 1 batter, another for 1 batter, etc. Too f'ing slow.

 

Put some positional controls on the shift, increase offense.

 

Just some thoughts.

[jaysblue]

More bat flips please.

[Jimcanuck]

More bat flips please.

 

Yes, followed by a pitch to the ribs. Increase the entertainment quotient.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jimcanuck

[Slade]

The game has gotten more boring over time. And I don't see the baseball characters the guys that were famous anymore. Where are the Billy Martins, the Errol Weavers, the guys that stir up s*** lol. Has MLB in its 'wisdom', discouraged this behaviour?

 

Rickey Henderson was damn exciting to watch. Tim Raines. Manufacturing runs by speed / SBs, the interaction between the baserunner, the catcher, the pitcher and the hitter could be quite intense to watch. Doesn't happen to the same extent.

 

MLB really needs to find a way to stop the holding back of guys like Vlad, Eloy, etc. 2018 would have been a whole lot more exciting for Jays/Chisox fans if those guys came up midseason and did a Soto. The rise of Soto was one of the big 2018 things, MLB could have had three of those.

 

Do some more things to speed up the game. Like when a reliever comes in, get rid of the 8 preparatory pitches, already threw plenty of pitches in the bullpen. Just pitch. If a reliever is brought in, must pitch to minimum 3 batters. f*** the reliever for 1 batter, another for 1 batter, etc. Too f'ing slow.

 

Put some positional controls on the shift, increase offense.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Disagree with most of this.

 

I have no issues with the game as it is right now. I think the idea of speeding up the game is dumb and a waste of time. I know how much time it takes to play a game and I am fine with it. Over the last 20 years 9 innings has fluctuated from 2:46-3:05. Why is that an issue?

 

I like watching teams do everything in their power to exploit weaknesses. I love the idea of front offices thinking so much about how much value they can get out of one roster spot and experimenting with their roster to find new value.

 

Don't control the shift ever. It's hitters that need to figure that s*** out.

 

I'll give it to you that I miss the art of stealing bases. Maybe some day those guys with blistering speed can learn to hit too.

 

If there is one change I want to see it's the NL to adapt the DH so we don't have to see pitchers hit.

[Bobthe4th]

Disagree with most of this.

 

I have no issues with the game as it is right now. I think the idea of speeding up the game is dumb and a waste of time. I know how much time it takes to play a game and I am fine with it. Over the last 20 years 9 innings has fluctuated from 2:46-3:05. Why is that an issue?

 

I like watching teams do everything in their power to exploit weaknesses. I love the idea of front offices thinking so much about how much value they can get out of one roster spot and experimenting with their roster to find new value.

 

Don't control the shift ever. It's hitters that need to figure that s*** out.

 

I'll give it to you that I miss the art of stealing bases. Maybe some day those guys with blistering speed can learn to hit too.

 

If there is one change I want to see it's the NL to adapt the DH so we don't have to see pitchers hit.

 

It’s not dumb to try to speed the game up, if there are sensible ways to do it (e.g. like Jim’s idea of stopping relievers throwing multiple warm up pitches from the mound). Downtime in any sport is normally a bad thing, and baseball is almost as bad as American Football for delays.

 

As existing baseball fans, we are not the target audience for the changes.

[Krylian]

More bat flips please.

 

White people don't flip bats

[TheHurl]

Basketball hasn't changed.

 

Wat???? Basketball has gone through about 15 major changes over the past 40 years. They added a f***ing three point line

[jaysblue]

They should adopt the DH in the NL as well. I'm sure the MLBPA would love that because that means an extra 15 starting jobs available for players.

 

MLB does need to speed the game up a bit without completely tampering with the overall game. Like Jim alluded, they should cut down on the amount warm-up pitches relievers throw from the mound.

 

A way to maybe reduce the amount of pitching changes would be to have a maximum number of pitching changes per 9 innings. Would add a bit more strategy and prevent managers from wasting a reliever just for only one out. Not sure what the number should be, maybe 4 or 5? Nothing too extreme where managers have no flexibility whatsoever. Also, if there is an injury, then that should be the exception, though that pitcher would have to go on the DL for a minimum of 10-days so no teams take advantage of that loophole. If the game goes into extra innings, then each team gets another 4 or 5 pitching changes for another 9 innings.

[Slade]

It’s not dumb to try to speed the game up, if there are sensible ways to do it (e.g. like Jim’s idea of stopping relievers throwing multiple warm up pitches from the mound). Downtime in any sport is normally a bad thing, and baseball is almost as bad as American Football for delays.

 

As existing baseball fans, we are not the target audience for the changes.

 

Ok fair enough we are not the target audience. But do you really think a casual fan is going to notice the difference between a 3 hour game and a 2 hour 45 minute game?

 

Baseball teams are regional products, you want to grow the game each individual team is going to have to figure out how to draw a bigger audience. For most teams the only thing that will do that is a winning culture.

 

The only reason attendance was down this year was because teams finally realize there is no benefit to be in the middle. You either tank or are up and coming.

 

The League is up in terms of revenue again this year from $10 billion to $10.3 Billion. The cancellation of baseball tonight doesn't matter, it's a s***** talk show nobody gave a crap about. It's not reflective of league popularity.

[Bobthe4th]

Ok fair enough we are not the target audience. But do you really think a casual fan is going to notice the difference between a 3 hour game and a 2 hour 45 minute game?

 

Baseball teams are regional products, you want to grow the game each individual team is going to have to figure out how to draw a bigger audience. For most teams the only thing that will do that is a winning culture.

 

The only reason attendance was down this year was because teams finally realize there is no benefit to be in the middle. You either tank or are up and coming.

 

The League is up in terms of revenue again this year from $10 billion to $10.3 Billion. The cancellation of baseball tonight doesn't matter, it's a s***** talk show nobody gave a crap about. It's not reflective of league popularity.

 

If the only change was reducing the game time then no it wouldn't make a significant difference.

 

That shouldn't be the only change, but IMO it should be a part of the way the commissioner does his job to try to encourage new fans. Just because baseball is regional now, doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

[Bobthe4th]

White people don't flip bats

 

[Abomination]

They should adopt the DH in the NL as well. I'm sure the MLBPA would love that because that means an extra 15 starting jobs available for players.

 

MLB does need to speed the game up a bit without completely tampering with the overall game. Like Jim alluded, they should cut down on the amount warm-up pitches relievers throw from the mound.

 

A way to maybe reduce the amount of pitching changes would be to have a maximum number of pitching changes per 9 innings. Would add a bit more strategy and prevent managers from wasting a reliever just for only one out. Not sure what the number should be, maybe 4 or 5? Nothing too extreme where managers have no flexibility whatsoever. Also, if there is an injury, then that should be the exception, though that pitcher would have to go on the DL for a minimum of 10-days so no teams take advantage of that loophole. If the game goes into extra innings, then each team gets another 4 or 5 pitching changes for another 9 innings.

 

I don't think you can limit pitching changes, as it could lead to injuries. You can certainly require a pitcher face a minimum number of batters (or end of an inning) before being replaced though. Some way to communicate pitches other than signs from the catcher would be useful too, and could lop a lot of time off between pitches.

[Jimcanuck]

Ok fair enough we are not the target audience. But do you really think a casual fan is going to notice the difference between a 3 hour game and a 2 hour 45 minute game?

 

Baseball teams are regional products, you want to grow the game each individual team is going to have to figure out how to draw a bigger audience. For most teams the only thing that will do that is a winning culture.

 

The only reason attendance was down this year was because teams finally realize there is no benefit to be in the middle. You either tank or are up and coming.

 

The League is up in terms of revenue again this year from $10 billion to $10.3 Billion. The cancellation of baseball tonight doesn't matter, it's a s***** talk show nobody gave a crap about. It's not reflective of league popularity.

 

It's not the length of the game, its the delays in the action that can be addressed.

[TheHurl]

Odd assault story coming out from 2015 Spring Training. Seventeen year old drinking in a pair of minor league players room along with 2 women she did not know (one of which is married to a current Dodger supposedly, unknown if it is one of the guys in the incident). 17 year old got hammered, puked and then beaten by the two girls while one player filmed it on Snapchat. Girl's grandmother went to the Dodgers and Gabe Kapler dealt with it. He didn't go to the police as the players weren't directly involved in the assault. Dodgers lawyers offered advice of getting the girl and the players together to deal with this. The sit down never happened. The girl was arrested a week later and then gave a story different from what she had told her Grandmother as she added a sexual assault against one of the minor leaguers, saying he grabbed her breasts and fingered her while the other player was in the bathroom with the other two players. The girl did not want charges laid and ran away from state's custody shortly after. Police moved on without charges laid.

 

There are different stories from Kapler now and the grandmother about whether the Dodgers offered financial support (Dodgers claim they did not).

 

I don't think Kapler or the Dodgers actually did anything wrong here as they may never have known about the sexual assault and I don't know they had any obligation to go the police. Intrigued to know who the "wife" was. Been a rough month for the Dodgers.

Edited February 2, 2019 by TheHurl

[TheHurl]

I was a big proponent of baseball needing change, but Manfred pulled off what I think is a miracle when he got Fox to extend to 2028. While I still think extra innings needs a change, I say f*** all the other little changes and deal with pleasing the MLBPA to avoid a strike. Then in 10 years let some new commish deal with the super low ratings and potential revenue drop. The game will probably end up a 7 inning game someday anyway.

[Laika]

Odd assault story coming out from 2015 Spring Training. Seventeen year old drinking in a pair of minor league players room along with 2 women she did not know (one of which is married to a current Dodger supposedly, unknown if it is one of the guys in the incident). 17 year old got hammered, puked and then beaten by the two girls while one player filmed it on Snapchat. Girl's grandmother went to the Dodgers and Gabe Kapler dealt with it. He didn't go to the police as the players weren't directly involved in the assault. Dodgers lawyers offered advice of getting the girl and the players together to deal with this. The sit down never happened. The girl was arrested a week later and then gave a story different from what she had told her Grandmother as she added a sexual assault against one of the minor leaguers, saying he grabbed her breasts and fingered her while the other player was in the bathroom with the other two players. The girl did not want charges laid and ran away from state's custody shortly after. Police moved on without charges laid.

 

There are different stories from Kapler now and the grandmother about whether the Dodgers offered financial support (Dodgers claim they did not).

 

I don't think Kapler or the Dodgers actually did anything wrong here as they may never have known about the sexual assault and I don't know they had any obligation to go the police. Intrigued to know who the "wife" was. Been a rough month for the Dodgers.

 

You f***ing love the baseball gossip eh.

 

TMZ

[glory]

I was a big proponent of baseball needing change, but Manfred pulled off what I think is a miracle when he got Fox to extend to 2028. While I still think extra innings needs a change, I say f*** all the other little changes and deal with pleasing the MLBPA to avoid a strike. Then in 10 years let some new commish deal with the super low ratings and potential revenue drop. The game will probably end up a 7 inning game someday anyway.

 

I don’t see any way MLB doesn’t end up like NHL where it’s completely off the mainstream radar and national TV deals are not as lucrative. It’s not about shortening the game, it’s about removing the stigma of it being “an old white man’s game”. That’s why Kyler Murray coming to baseball would be a coupe for MLB. Elite athletes choosing baseball over other sports needs to happen more often, and I see no reason why they would with minor league pay being nothing and now free agency not being lucrative to most free agents. The Bill James quote that got him in hot water is going to end up being close to a reality in about 10-20 years.

 

At some point the league has to adapt to the social media era. Make the players more accessible. Encourage them to create social media content that appeals to young people. That’s probably a step in the right direction at least.

[TheHurl]

You f***ing love the baseball gossip eh.

 

TMZ

 

absolutely. In my 20's I'd know who many of the players were sleeping with (At least those that did so at Al Fresco's and a couple other Toronto bars). Now it's tougher for me to get to know the ball bunnies so I have to live off a few unreliable sources. It is amazing how many people will tell you "my friend is sleeping with a Blue Jays player". My first co-ed team I ever played with there was a girl that proudly wore her number of professional baseball players she had in her life as her jersey number. Her husband was as proud of her as I was (the players were before his time with her)

[Krylian]

 

He's a Mormon. He's not a real white

[jaysblue]

I don't think you can limit pitching changes, as it could lead to injuries. You can certainly require a pitcher face a minimum number of batters (or end of an inning) before being replaced though. Some way to communicate pitches other than signs from the catcher would be useful too, and could lop a lot of time off between pitches.

 

It would have to be a number that still gives managers flexibility and doesn't suffocate them completely in a 9-inning game. Like I said if pitchers get injured in game, that is an exception to the rule. If you had a maximum of 5 pitching changes in a game, that is pretty much on average I would say in a regular season game where a starter goes 5-6 innings anyways. Another idea to add on with this would be have a reserved roster of 2-3 spots where a player can be scratched from a game, whether it's for rest or healing up from a very minor day-to-day injury. So let's say if you have a reliever pitch 2-3 innings and can't go the next day, you scratch him and use one of the reserves which is likely a bullpen arm to fill that pitchers place. Pretty much it's like having a 26th and 27th player, but they aren't active for every game. I'm sure many teams would utilize those extra roster spots throughout the season so those players would still get some innings in and would mean more MLB contracts handed out to relief pitchers to fill up those spots.

 

I'm not advocating for this, but just cool to talk about different ideas.

[Captain Adama]

He's a Mormon. He's not a real white

 

I would figure that's as white as it gets.

[Orgfiller]

He's a Mormon. He's not a real white

 

I think you have it the other way around bud.

[Jimcanuck]

Pitchers get hurt if they throw harder. If you have less relievers enter the game, they will simply start throwing slower or they will be selected out in favour of relievers who rely more on arsenal and can handle workload. You know.. like how pitchers have always had to succeed.

 

Right now I don't see how this reliever carousel adds to the game. It kills the flow of the game and they're all completely homogeneous anyways. They're almost like speed bumps or impediments. Their usage is so f***ing optimal that it's almost unfair. You come in for 10 pitches, throw as hard as possible, the hitter sees you one time, as soon as you put a guy on base the manager pulls you.

 

Is the game worse if bullpens have to roster some RPs who *have* to go multiple innings? Ok, you won't get to see the fastball/slider guessing game that goes on from innings 5 to 9 but maybe you see a reliever who has a 3rd pitch? Maybe there's some more nuance to the final inning matchups and you can actually track who these 90-100 IP relievers are.

 

Like "Oh wow, Seth Lugo is really valuable. He can throw 100 IP out of the pen because he has 4 pitches. I like watching him pitch. I know who this human being is."

 

Instead of just 30 IP machines that get cycled in and out every year.

 

Exactly right. 3 batters minimum / reliever. Would make for more exciting late innings / comebacks.

[bendera3]

I don't think the length of the game is an issue. NFL games and MLB games last roughly the same amount of time, and the same amount of downtime between plays. I think what it comes down to is the number of games that are played and the action that is involved. NFL gameplay is just more entertaining to the masses because it's "faster." Baseball is "boring." A 16 game NFL season makes people pumped up for each game because there are so few (4% of the year). The Blue Jays play about 44% of the year if they don't make the playoffs. MLB is in a hard situation. How can you make something that happens half the year exciting to people with short attention spans?

[Abomination]

NFL gameplay is just more entertaining to the masses because it's "faster."

 

Or they like the violence.

[glory]

I don't think the length of the game is an issue. NFL games and MLB games last roughly the same amount of time, and the same amount of downtime between plays. I think what it comes down to is the number of games that are played and the action that is involved. NFL gameplay is just more entertaining to the masses because it's "faster." Baseball is "boring." A 16 game NFL season makes people pumped up for each game because there are so few (4% of the year). The Blue Jays play about 44% of the year if they don't make the playoffs. MLB is in a hard situation. How can you make something that happens half the year exciting to people with short attention spans?

 

Baseball has also followed the NBA in terms of teams intentionally tanking, and there's a lot of them now, so when more than half the league sucks ass and there are 162 games in a season, it's a really bad combination. They might have to start a system that does not incentivize rebuilding. Like there was nothing preventing the Jays from signing Morton, Happ, and Brantley (assuming they all had interest in signing with the Jays) while still hoarding prospects and rebuilding the farm system in the background. Instead they chose to sit on the money and purposely suck. Good for the team in terms of draft position and stuff like that, but horrible for the game when the majority of other teams are doing the same thing.

 

Also, analytics (while it makes sense to use) probably bores the hell out of the casual viewer. Watch an episode of Inside the NBA with Barkley, Shaq, Kenny Smith, and Ernie Johnson. No one says a word about in depth stats. It's a bunch of guys shooting the breeze, making fun of each other, and watching basketball. It is simply more fun to watch even if you're not a basketball fan. In baseball, you either listen to Brian Kenny types or Harold Reynolds types. It's boring and unentertaining.

 

Like I said this goes beyond cosmetic changes to the game. I think baseball should change a little bit, hell, look at the NBA during Jordan's time versus today. It's night and day. They changed so many rules but the NBA is more popular than ever. Baseball has to make some cosmetic changes, but also have to market the game better. Manfred has the toughest job of any commish in sports. Saving MLB long term is going to be very tough.

[Krylian]

I would figure that's as white as it gets.

 

Ya. I didn't think that through.