General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Slade]

Tanking of this magnitude must take commitment from the top down. I would be shocked if either of Shatkins left the team unless it was their choice. What's the fireable offence right now? We didn't lose enough games?

 

Atkins hasn't done a bad job but he's handed out some dumb contracts to middling talent Grichuk included.

[Terminator]

Just finished reading about the Padres having an OF logjam. Would it make sense for us to try and buy low on Manuel Margot, whether it be as a secondary part of a package for one of our big chips or just in general?

 

Yeah Margot would be a good fit to go along with some other pieces. Padres have a ton of guys we could use. They need to start winning though in order to be buyers.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

The Giles-Osuna trade was a wizard move under the circumstances.

 

The rest of those moves are simply adding pretty marginal talent for nothing and then just cutting payroll. Not a bad job to clean the slate like that but hes going to have to take a 100 loss team and make them competitive in a very short window or he won't be around to see it through. This means he'll have to be very aggressive in FA which can be dangerous.

 

Osuna was absolutely toxic when he was traded, so I totally agree with you. I thought he would be released. So do get anything was surprising. It's a trade up there with getting JD and trading Wells somehow. Three of my fave lopsided Jays trades.

[keggy]

Osuna was absolutely toxic when he was traded, so I totally agree with you. I thought he would be released. So do get anything was surprising. It's a trade up there with getting JD and trading Wells somehow. Three of my fave lopsided Jays trades.

 

All those trades are a win, but the Osuna trade isn't in the same ballpark in terms of scale. Donaldson provided like $100-150 million in surplus value including 2 playoff runs with Lawrie the main piece going back. Wells was a replacement level sunk cost making $80 million in 2010 dollars. To add insult to injury the Jays got major league assets in return.

 

Osuna was a good trade making the best of a bad situation. Donaldson and Wells are the types of moves that change the entire trajectory of a franchise.

[Pendleton]

Yeah Margot would be a good fit to go along with some other pieces. Padres have a ton of guys we could use. They need to start winning though in order to be buyers.

 

They really do have exactly what we need. Surplus of controllable MLB OF, some high end pitching at various levels and some other close to the majors arms of interest, great farm in general.

 

Hopefully they string enough wins together to push them into buyer mode.

 

Luis Patino, Manuel Margot, Logan Allen and Andres Munoz for Stro...too much?

[Laika]

They really do have exactly what we need. Surplus of controllable MLB OF, some high end pitching at various levels and some other close to the majors arms of interest, great farm in general.

 

Hopefully they string enough wins together to push them into buyer mode.

 

Luis Patino, Manuel Margot, Logan Allen and Andres Munoz for Stro...too much?

 

Way too much. Leave Patino or Allen out of it and Padres fans might still tell you it's way too much.

[Pendleton]

Way too much. Leave Patino or Allen out of it and Padres fans might still tell you it's way too much.

 

I was going to put a lower upside MLB ready arm such as Quantrill in place of Allen. I'd definitely think we need at least one guy from Patino's range of their prospect list in a Stroman deal.

[Terminator]

Is Margot any good? Steamer doesn't really think so. Seems to be a good defensive CF though so he'd definitely fill a need.

[Laika]

I was going to put a lower upside MLB ready arm such as Quantrill in place of Allen. I'd definitely think we need at least one guy from Patino's range of their prospect list in a Stroman deal.

 

Well you're right. There needs to be a centrepiece and Patino would be a good one.

[baubau]

Way too much. Leave Patino or Allen out of it and Padres fans might still tell you it's way too much.

 

I wonder, if Sanchez is added with Stroman in deal would the return be better than trading Sanchez by himself? I just want both gone.

[Terminator]

At what point do we start worrying about Danny Jansen?

[Laika]

At what point do we start worrying about Danny Jansen?

 

You always have to give a catcher a full mulligan on season #1, but it's fair to worry right now.

[Ex Player]

At what point do we start worrying about Danny Jansen?

Even if you do start worrying, what can you do with him?? You cant send him down unless you wanna call up a AAA catcher (which we dont have), or a AA catcher, which I also think we dont have.

 

Only thing left is trade for a catcher or play with Maile only, and thats never gonna happen

[glory]

At what point do we start worrying about Danny Jansen?

 

Not yet. We are used to young players on other teams becoming good right away but some times it takes time for a player to adjust. Regardless we have a catching prospect at practically every level so even if Jansen flops it may not be a huge issue but there’s still time for him. Even if his whole season is bad I say just role with Jansen/McGuire in 2020.

[Jimcanuck]

Jansen will be fine, just maybe not the top 5 or maybe not even top 10 catcher everyone was thinking.

[Terminator]

Well yeah I'm not saying send him to AAA or anything but every day he continues to suck ass is another day I'm starting to think he's not going to be the 3+ WAR player we had all hoped for. If he's merely adequate (which isn't even a given) then add that to the giant heaping pile of disappointing s*** to happen this year.

[jays4life19]

SSS but Jansen has been elite according to BP catching D metrics. He currently ranks 6th in FRAA_ADJ and has been hovering between 2-7th the entire year.

 

If he can keep that up and hit at like 85 wRC+ that's a really good player.

[Terminator]

SSS but Jansen has been elite according to BP catching D metrics. He currently ranks 6th in FRAA_ADJ and has been hovering between 2-7th the entire year.

 

If he can keep that up and hit at like 85 wRC+ that's a really good player.

 

Yeah that has been a really nice reveal. Coming into the year we all kind of thought he'd be an average defender at best.

[BTS]

I'm not worried about Jansen. The defense looks borderline elite, and I'm pretty sure he's going to put up at least an 80 wRC+. The floor looks like average defense-first starting catcher right now.

[BlueRocky]

If this is as bad as it gets for Jansen offensively, he’s going to be fine.

I’m more worried about OF offense tbh, we’re barely getting replacement level production out there on some nights.

 

Catcher is also the position our farm system has an abundance next to middle infield. If Jansen ends up less than ideal there’s always McGuire, Adams, Mineo, Kirk, Moreno, etc

[Terminator]

Is he actually borderline elite with his defense though? His statcast page says he's barely above average with his framing and he has a poor pop time.

[glory]

I'm not sure I'd want Margot if Stroman is going the other way. Maybe as a low risk pickup for a lot less, but not as a piece in return for our best or 2nd best trade asset.

 

I can definitely picture Atkins wanting Logan Allen. He'd be in the rotation right away. I doubt we could get him and Patino together. If we could get one of the two plus a position player prospect, that would be pretty good. I'm guessing Edwards would be asking too much. Atkins likes them big and thick apparently so I'm sure Naylor would interest him.

[Ex Player]

I gotta be honest, Galvis has been our little sparkplug so far this season

[Ex Player]

Jansen, take 1 step AWAY from the plate!!!

 

IMO he stands too close to homeplate

[Terminator]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/06/07/the-jays-must-show-signs-the-rebuild-is-working-or-ross-atkins-extension-might-be-his-last.html

 

Decent article by Chisholm regarding the state of the team and what it means for Atkins.

[BTS]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/06/07/the-jays-must-show-signs-the-rebuild-is-working-or-ross-atkins-extension-might-be-his-last.html

 

Decent article by Chisholm regarding the state of the team and what it means for Atkins.

 

Pretty good take on the situation.

[5ToolPhenom]

So Edwin Jackson is starting, you can get an alternative spread of -2.5 on the Yankees, for 2.10

 

Isn't that the easiest money ever?

 

Good call bro

[Laika]

Yeah that has been a really nice reveal. Coming into the year we all kind of thought he'd be an average defender at best.

 

People were actually worried that he was an egregiously bad framer. There was some minor league framing data floating around that basically said he sucked.

[G-Snarls]

People were actually worried that he was an egregiously bad framer. There was some minor league framing data floating around that basically said he sucked.

 

I don't imagine minor league parks are equipped or staffed well enough to generate good data for this area of the game

[G-Snarls]

Jays creeping up on a top notch draft pick

 

As of today we're only 2 games off of Baltimore and KC for the top pick. And even the worst NL team (Miami) has a better record.