General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[mikepelfrey]

This year's book for Manuel isn't out yet.The 18-20 comment was from his last 2018 update from december.

 

His book comes out after he's toured each minor league .It usually comes out after the draft between August and September.

[metafour]

Johnson was like 28 and just threw 190 IP for 3 WAR. And in 2010 was f***ing unhittable.

 

He pitched only 67 innings in 2011 and sat out the rest of the year with a shoulder injury.

In 2012, he pitched a full season but his performance was noticeably down, as was his velocity (about ~2 mph lower than his typical ~95 avg during his actual dominant seasons). Strong indication that this was already a sign that he was breaking, if not outright pitching through another injury.

 

Then we traded for him and in 2013 he got even worse and then got OFFICIALLY hurt again.

 

Again, you have to look at what you are buying. The recent snapshot was showing clear signs to be worried about. Signs that should override whatever the hell he was doing 3-4-5 years prior with Miami.

[Boxcar]

They know what they're buying. It's a former ace pitcher who is semi-broken. He's like a quarter of the package you're getting though. If he dies, he dies. I don't think they thought his career would be over though. But the guys you're sending back to Miami are headlined by Yunel who is a negative asset.

 

Yunel in one year outperformed the entire Miami haul iirc.

[Captain Adama]

Sirbjay.You're an idiot I have the 2019 baseball America prospect guide right here and John Manuel's minor league guide right here as well. So not only are you an idiot you're an illiterate one at that sirbjay

 

Maybe if you spent a little money and you know actually read them you wouldn't be so uninformed. I love it when guys like you who don't even bother to read any expert opinions spout out their ignorance

 

But the guides. Read them. Then talk. Till then your opinion is like your ass. Full of shyte

 

[Spanky__99]

Sirbjay.You're an idiot I have the 2019 baseball America prospect guide right here and John Manuel's minor league guide right here as well. So not only are you an idiot you're an illiterate one at that sirbjay

 

Maybe if you spent a little money and you know actually read them you wouldn't be so uninformed. I love it when guys like you who don't even bother to read any expert opinions spout out their ignorance

 

But the guides. Read them. Then talk. Till then your opinion is like your ass. Full of shyte

 

Just for Sirbjay to slam in this meatheads face...

 

 

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5548-Official-MiLB-Prospects-Thread?p=1331230&viewfull=1#post1331230

[Carlos Danger]

Just for Sirbjay to slam in this meatheads face...

 

 

 

https://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/5548-Official-MiLB-Prospects-Thread?p=1331230&viewfull=1#post1331230

 

Dude, that is all dated February. Read the guys point... Take out Vlad, Jensen, Biggio and Bichette when he is up.. SRF has been a bust so far this year.. Not the same... No one is saying a bad farm system, but today it is not the same as February.

[Spanky__99]

Dude, that is all dated February. Read the guys point... Take out Vlad, Jensen, Biggio and Bichette when he is up.. SRF has been a bust so far this year.. Not the same... No one is saying a bad farm system, but today it is not the same as February.

 

Dude, that's the latest Org. ranking, you won't see another one until next February. You don't cherry pick players from the ranking to suit your argument, that's not how it works. BP has the Jays at 4, MLB at 3... etc... they're a consensus top 3 Org, period. He must be looking at 2018, or simply pulling this from his ass.

[Jimcanuck]

This year's book for Manuel isn't out yet.The 18-20 comment was from his last 2018 update from december.

 

His book comes out after he's toured each minor league .It usually comes out after the draft between August and September.

 

These evaluations are a snapshot in time. Prospects are very fluid. Overall, Jays prospects have performed very well this year. No way does the Jays farm drop to the bottom half.

[P2F]

Dude, that is all dated February. Read the guys point... Take out Vlad, Jensen, Biggio and Bichette when he is up.. SRF has been a bust so far this year.. Not the same... No one is saying a bad farm system, but today it is not the same as February.

 

So, let me get this straight - we're now discounting the value of Guerrero, Biggio, and Jansen because they've been promoted to the Jays? And we're preemptively doing the same thing for Bichette? LMFAO! Yes, damn this organization for having such an impact group of close-proximity prospects to promote to the big club. The whole point of having a good farm is to hopefully develop impact major league players out of those prospects and all of those guys have shown immensely significant potential. Even with those promotions, the farm is still incredibly deep. f*** me - some of you guys are completely incapable of objective thought.

 

This board is in the darkest of dark ages.

[Orgfiller]

So, let me get this straight - we're now discounting the value of Guerrero, Biggio, and Jansen because they've been promoted to the Jays? And we're preemptively doing the same thing for Bichette? LMFAO! Yes, damn this organization for having such an impact group of close-proximity prospects to promote to the big club. The whole point of having a good farm is to hopefully develop impact major league players out of those prospects and all of those guys have shown immensely significant potential. Even with those promotions, the farm is still incredibly deep. f*** me - some of you guys are completely incapable of objective thought.

 

This board is in the darkest of dark ages.

 

f*** man, the Jays now only have just one top 10 prospect and 4-5 other top 100 prospects. I don't know how the farm will recover, might as well just start the organization over from scratch.

[Carlos Danger]

So, let me get this straight - we're now discounting the value of Guerrero, Biggio, and Jansen because they've been promoted to the Jays? And we're preemptively doing the same thing for Bichette? LMFAO! Yes, damn this organization for having such an impact group of close-proximity prospects to promote to the big club. The whole point of having a good farm is to hopefully develop impact major league players out of those prospects and all of those guys have shown immensely significant potential. Even with those promotions, the farm is still incredibly deep. f*** me - some of you guys are completely incapable of objective thought.

 

This board is in the darkest of dark ages.

 

You wrote all that for nothing. Try responding to the debate.

 

He was talking about the ranking now next ratings coming out.

 

You have a problem understanding that once guys have played enough games to qualify for ROY or not be eligible for ROY next year they are not in the farm system anymore and not prospects. They count towards the ML team.

 

It is disingenuous and wrong and to include Jansen, very soon Vlad, Biggio in the farm and prospects.

 

No one is debating February rankings. The poster specifically said when you remove the guys like Vlad.

[Spanky__99]

You wrote all that for nothing. Try responding to the debate.

 

He was talking about the ranking now next ratings coming out.

 

You have a problem understanding that once guys have played enough games to qualify for ROY or not be eligible for ROY next year they are not in the farm system anymore and not prospects. They count towards the ML team.

 

It is disingenuous and wrong and to include Jansen, very soon Vlad, Biggio in the farm and prospects.

 

No one is debating February rankings. The poster specifically said when you remove the guys like Vlad.

 

Which is objectively retarded.

[Jimcanuck]

You wrote all that for nothing. Try responding to the debate.

 

He was talking about the ranking now next ratings coming out.

 

You have a problem understanding that once guys have played enough games to qualify for ROY or not be eligible for ROY next year they are not in the farm system anymore and not prospects. They count towards the ML team.

 

It is disingenuous and wrong and to include Jansen, very soon Vlad, Biggio in the farm and prospects.

 

No one is debating February rankings. The poster specifically said when you remove the guys like Vlad.

 

He basically said the Jays farm is thin after Vlad, Jansen, Biggio, Bichette.

 

Disagree. Pearson, Groshans, and Pardinho are currently on BA 100 and the Jays have a number of other players worthy of top 100 consideration.

[Carlos Danger]

He basically said the Jays farm is thin after Vlad, Jansen, Biggio, Bichette.

 

Disagree. Pearson, Groshans, and Pardinho are currently on BA 100 and the Jays have a number of other players worthy of top 100 consideration.

 

No one is saying we have a bad farm system. MrsBlueJay said top 3, the poster said no, MrsBlueJay said he is wrong.

 

Are all the posters saying that we will be ranked 3 or even 5 next rankings?? Unless we have a spectacular draft, I highly doubt it.

[Jimcanuck]

No one is saying we have a bad farm system. MrsBlueJay said top 3, the poster said no, MrsBlueJay said he is wrong.

 

Are all the posters saying that we will be ranked 3 or even 5 next rankings?? Unless we have a spectacular draft, I highly doubt it.

 

Jansen is the only one no longer classifying as a prospect. Jays are most definitely top 5 farm currently.

 

I didn't see anyone claim the Jays would have a top 5 farm after Vlad is no longer a prospect. I and others have an issue with Pelfrey saying the Jays farm will rank 18-20 next offseason. Ridiculous.

 

Later this season when Vlad is no longer a prospect, Jays will still be top 10 farm. You can take that to the bank.

[Spanky__99]

He basically said the Jays farm is thin after Vlad, Jansen, Biggio, Bichette.

 

Disagree. Pearson, Groshans, and Pardinho are currently on BA 100 and the Jays have a number of other players worthy of top 100 consideration.

 

He also falsely mentioned he has the BA manual and said they were ranked 7th, a simple check shows they had Toronto 3rd, then continued to vomit post that taking out Vlad and Bichette and the ranking drops to 18-20, who the f*** does that horseshit??? Try waiting for the ranking next season in February! Dude's full of s***, copy pastes from wiki, and is simply the one who's uninformed. Ugghhh...

[Carlos Danger]

Jansen is the only one no longer classifying as a prospect. Jays are most definitely top 5 farm currently.

 

Later this season when Vlad is no longer a prospect, Jays will still be top 10 farm. You can take that to the bank.

 

Not arguing top 10. Entirely possible, not 3, no sure thing #5.

[Spanky__99]

No one is saying we have a bad farm system. MrsBlueJay said top 3, the poster said no, MrsBlueJay said he is wrong.

 

Are all the posters saying that we will be ranked 3 or even 5 next rankings?? Unless we have a spectacular draft, I highly doubt it.

 

Speaking of uninformed, *sighs* you think the other orgs around MLB haven't called up prospects either? Give your head a shake.

[Jimcanuck]

Not arguing top 10. Entirely possible, not 3, no sure thing #5.

 

I didn't see anyone claim a top 5 farm after Vlad graduates.

[Spanky__99]

Not arguing top 10. Entirely possible, not 3, no sure thing #5.

 

He said they'd drop to 18-20 from 7th by taking out Vlad and Bichette, why don't we wait till the evaluators finalize their listings next winter, alright? Jesus Christ! lol... meat! Bichette will be on that listing, also. This isn't hard.

[Carlos Danger]

Speaking of uninformed, *sighs* you think the other orgs around MLB haven't called up prospects either? Give your head a shake.

 

Yes, but it is not all the ships rise and fall equally with the tide. I don’t think Tatis should be a prospect anymore either. However, whatever happens to San Diego’s farm system does not correlate with Toronto.

[Carlos Danger]

He said they'd drop to 18-20, why don't we wait till the evaluators finalize their listings next winter, alright? Jesus Christ! lol... meat!

 

 

I don't agree with that, never did. I am arguing that we are not currently # 3 which a bunch of you still think is accurate. LOL Tofu!

[Carlos Danger]

This is what got Toronto a pre-season top 3 from Bleacher Report. Things change.

 

1. 3B Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 19 Top 25

2. SS Bo Bichette 20 Top 25

3. C Danny Jansen 23 Top 100

4. RHP Eric Pardinho 17 Top 100

5. RHP Nate Pearson 22 Top 100

6. SS Jordan Groshans 19 2

7. SS Kevin Smith 22 2

8. 2B Cavan Biggio 23 2

9. RHP Sean Reid-Foley 23 3

10. OF Anthony Alford 24

[Spanky__99]

I don't agree with that, never did. I am arguing that we are not currently # 3 which a bunch of you still think is accurate. LOL Tofu!

 

Of course they are, lol. The only one graduated off that ranking is Jansen, plus we have plenty of prospects that will graduate into next years ranking. I thought you were coming to his defense, so you think the current ranking has dropped too. Bah Gawd!

[Spanky__99]

Yes, but it is not all the ships rise and fall equally with the tide. I don’t think Tatis should be a prospect anymore either. However, whatever happens to San Diego’s farm system does not correlate with Toronto.

 

I don't agree with that, never did. I am arguing that we are not currently # 3 which a bunch of you still think is accurate. LOL Tofu!

 

This is what got Toronto a pre-season top 3 from Bleacher Report. Things change.

 

1. 3B Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 19 Top 25

2. SS Bo Bichette 20 Top 25

3. C Danny Jansen 23 Top 100

4. RHP Eric Pardinho 17 Top 100

5. RHP Nate Pearson 22 Top 100

6. SS Jordan Groshans 19 2

7. SS Kevin Smith 22 2

8. 2B Cavan Biggio 23 2

9. RHP Sean Reid-Foley 23 3

10. OF Anthony Alford 24

 

Uhmm...

 

[P2F]

You wrote all that for nothing. Try responding to the debate.

 

He was talking about the ranking now next ratings coming out.

 

You have a problem understanding that once guys have played enough games to qualify for ROY or not be eligible for ROY next year they are not in the farm system anymore and not prospects. They count towards the ML team.

 

It is disingenuous and wrong and to include Jansen, very soon Vlad, Biggio in the farm and prospects.

 

No one is debating February rankings. The poster specifically said when you remove the guys like Vlad.

 

I did respond to the debate. The poster you so proudly defended has been nothing but completely disingenuous with the majority of his posts ITT.

 

In a nutshell, he has claimed that the Blue Jays have less coming up the pipe than what we all think, as well as nothing on the current team. It's wrong to exclude a player like Vlad from this exercise because a) he's still below rookie thresholds and he comes from that farm that mikepelfrey is knocking. Vlad either counts on the big league club or he counts as a prospect. Same with Biggio, Jansen, and Bichette.

 

To add to my last post, SRF and a few others may have taken a step backward (or at least didn't develop forward), but other players like Alejandro Kirk, Jordan Groshans, Riley Adams, Gabriel Moreno, Otto Lopez, Brock Lundquist, Joey Murray, Josh Winckowski, etc. have taken steps forward, ranging from small to massive.

 

Even after removing Vlad from the group, the Jays' farm is easily top 10. Eyeballing it, they're probably somewhere in the 5-8 range, currently - not 18th like your boy mikepelfrey said.

[P2F]

He also falsely mentioned he has the BA manual and said they were ranked 7th, a simple check shows they had Toronto 3rd, then continued to vomit post that taking out Vlad and Bichette and the ranking drops to 18-20, who the f*** does that horseshit??? Try waiting for the ranking next season in February! Dude's full of s***, copy pastes from wiki, and is simply the one who's uninformed. Ugghhh...

 

Not to mention John Manuel is now a scout for the Twins. Pretty sure he doesn't publicly write about prospects anymore. LOL.

 

He also called Bob Nightengale 'Dave Nightingale' and Jon Heyman 'John Heyman'.

[wk680]

Well this has been a 'lively' debate. I am sitting here currently trying to think of anyone Anthopoulous traded away who has broken out. The closest thing it seems so far is Matt Boyd. Wow who thought he would have turned out better than the 'van down by the river' guy (LOL). If only AA had traded Sanchez (who I like to refer to as Mr Tender Fingers) instead of Syndergaard. Is it really the case that the Mets were open to either one (as far as was publicly known or speculated)? Then again there goes that 20/20 hindsight again. And yes I realize this has been covered a million times already but some of us are old and have bad memories:p Edited June 2, 2019 by wk680

[xposbrad]

I know a lot of people here were projecting Vlad to put up 5 WAR this year even missing the first month, is he still on track for that?

[Spanky__99]

I know a lot of people here were projecting Vlad to put up 5 WAR this year even missing the first month, is he still on track for that?