General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[BTS]

Why do you say offensive talent? I know our offense sucks ass but our pitching cupboard is going to be nearly bare once we deal these guys.

 

We’ve seen comparable arms to Giles moves for elite hitting prospects. I’d be disappointed to have to settle for an arm when the market suggests that top-20 bats should be in play. I get that the rotation is a huge need, but I’d rather address it another way.

[Brownie19]

Yes I did. Which trailer park in Wasaga beach should I mail it too??

 

f*** you pal. You come on here and spew utter nonsense around the board. I try and help you educate yourself on the massive risks involved with spending big $$ on free agents and instead of doing that, you just keep bitching about who awful this organization is because they don't add through free agency.

[Brownie19]

Exactly.

 

Last 19 years have shown Rogers to be reluctant to spend $$$ on top FA's.

Unless we get a new owner I dont think that will change.

 

It sucks because Jays are a big market team who could compete with Dodgers, Yankees, Sox.....etc if they wanted to

 

The current Dodgers are a great team.

 

Here's another assignment for you. Can you kindly point me in the direction of all the big name free agents they brought in to build their 2019 team? Thanks.

[glory]

I think I'd prefer (good) hitting prospects in return for Giles+ only because you can't trust SP prospects. The best bet would be to get the absolute best package you can get regardless of position and then trade expendable prospect depth to acquire vet SPs. I think AA had the right idea in one respect which was consolidating prospects to get players of need, but he did it before the team was ready for it, which ended up causing the small contention window. The key here will be to do the same thing but only when the team is filled with what Shatkins perceives to be the next contending core.

 

I just don't trust pitching prospects no matter how good.

[Ray]

Twins could also use Stroman or Giles.

 

Would love to get Alex Kiriloff.

[Brownie19]

Twins could also use Stroman or Giles.

 

Would love to get Alex Kiriloff.

 

That's probably a pipe dream......an amazing pipe dream though.

[Spanky99]

If they trade Stroman, the return better be amazing. I don't care if they trade Giles, who is elite, but RP's are RP's and they are the one commodity on the trade market that will always have value even in a depressed market where teams are reluctant to trade prospects. We should be able to do well in a Giles trade. Playoff teams love to stack up on elite relievers. To me, Stroman is someone you keep long term. He's good, wants to stay here, is embracing the young team of mostly s***** replacement level players (until the real prospects are all up), and is young enough to still be a contributor to any 2020-beyond success. They better be very careful with his situation. At this point they either have to extend him or trade him because they can't afford to be caught with their pants down and sell at 50 cents on the dollar (or 20 cents in JD's case) by holding on to a player for too long.

 

I'm pretty sure most people here want him extended, whatever's happening behind closed doors between Ross and his agent is key here, and it's starting to sound like they're not close, hence this new report/rumour from Stark, sounds like they won't be getting caught with their pants down, the return should be very good haul or it's a fail on our FO. As you've said one way or another, this needs to happen soon, mid-June I'd suspect.

[Terminator]

We’ve seen comparable arms to Giles moves for elite hitting prospects. I’d be disappointed to have to settle for an arm when the market suggests that top-20 bats should be in play. I get that the rotation is a huge need, but I’d rather address it another way.

 

Ok so it's simply a matter of you thinking we could acquire a better caliber of prospect of we target hitters instead of pitchers? That makes sense.

[Ray]

I'm pretty sure most people here want him extended, whatever's happening behind closed doors between Ross and his agent is key here, and it's starting to sound like they're not close, hence this new report/rumour from Stark, sounds like they won't be getting caught with their pants down, the return should be very good haul or it's a fail on our FO. As you've said one way or another, this needs to happen soon, mid-June I'd suspect.

 

This is pretty speculative on my part, but I think it comes down to a difference of valuations between the Front Office and Marcus. Probably by a fairly wide margin as well.

 

Through age 28, he actually stacks up fairly similar to Sonny Gray.

 

Gray: 900 IP, 3.66 ERA, 3.74 FIP, 3.1 BB/9, 7.9 K/9

Stroman: 734 IP, 3.80 ERA, 3.62 FIP, 2.6 BB/9, 7.3 K/9

 

Gray got 4 years and $38M. The Reds definitely got a bit of a discount there give his down season, but even if you increase it to 5 years and $55M taking into account him being a year younger, I can't really see Stroman taking that deal.

[Spanky99]

This is pretty speculative on my part, but I think it comes down to a difference of valuations between the Front Office and Marcus. Probably by a fairly wide margin as well.

 

Through age 28, he actually stacks up fairly similar to Sonny Gray.

 

Gray: 900 IP, 3.66 ERA, 3.74 FIP, 3.1 BB/9, 7.9 K/9

Stroman: 734 IP, 3.80 ERA, 3.62 FIP, 2.6 BB/9, 7.3 K/9

 

Gray got 4 years and $38M. The Reds definitely got a bit of a discount there give his down season, but even if you increase it to 5 years and $55M taking into account him being a year younger, I can't really see Stroman taking that deal.

 

I was speculating exactly that point, like I said, it seems they're far apart seeing now both Rosenthal and Stark have made it public that he's available, we'll see shortly how this plays out in June. Personally, I'd love to see him get inked to an extension. Although kind of giddy to see the return in trade.

[Carlos Danger]

Yes I did. Which trailer park in Wasaga beach should I mail it too??

 

For the record, I am/was opposed to big FA spending this year. I saw an article by Jonah Hill advocating for FA spending. He is wrong. PS: I thought Jonah Keri was the fat guy in Superbad, 21 Jump st movies and a nerd in Money-ball and Wolf of Wall Street?

 

However, this reply is funny! LMAO

[mikepelfrey]

Why would the Indians keep a "non-prospect" who "twice bombed out of AAA" on their 40 man roster? An interesting choice from a team who built an entire rotation off of guys that no one thought were anything. Those are quite the conclusions that you are making about a guy that hasn't pitched a single MLB inning, so how exactly are you concluding that he "gets taken to the woodshed against advanced hitters" LMFAO. hE GaVe Up 105 hITs in 78 INNinGs thOUgh.

 

Like a near 7 ERA isn't enough for you? And yes at 28 the fact that he hasn't had any success above double AA is damning. They kept him on the 40 man rather than put him on waivers or releasing him in hopes of finding a sucker. Which they did in atkins. How many successful major leaguers can you name that gave up 12+ hits per 9 in triple AAA? I'll wait......this wasn't a guy we traded Solarte for...it was Josh Donaldson

[Brownie19]

For the record, I am/was opposed to big FA spending this year. I saw an article by Jonah Hill advocating for FA spending. He is wrong. PS: I thought Jonah Keri was the fat guy in Superbad, 21 Jump st movies and a nerd in Money-ball and Wolf of Wall Street?

 

However, this reply is funny! LMAO

 

Because Wasaga Beach is known for its trailer parks?

[Spanky99]

Because Wasaga Beach is known for its trailer parks?

 

Right? Wasaga Beach is beautiful.

[mikepelfrey]

ThatÂ’s all great, but Chapman didnÂ’t beat up his girlfriend.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14317320/aroldis-chapman-fired-gun-accused-choking-girlfriend-domestic-violence-incident

 

I guess you don't consider choking his girlfriend and then repeatedly firing a gun while she huddled in fear as beating her

 

The fact that 8 guests in attendance confirmed her original story means nothing. She later refused to press charges but that doesn't mean it never happened.... Osuna is still with his now wife too.

 

I take Gleyber Torres over Giles 100 times out of 100 and I take Osuna over Giles. At least Osuna can pitch in the post season.

Edited May 31, 2019 by mikepelfrey

[Carlos Danger]

Because Wasaga Beach is known for its trailer parks?

 

No, because it was funny.

 

Fyi- There are some trailer parks in Florida right on the ocean in beautiful locations.

[Ex Player]

For the record, I am/was opposed to big FA spending this year

This year (and probably last year) I agree with you on.

But in 2015 and 2016 he couldve made some FA moves, and yet he didnt

 

However, this reply is funny! LMAO

The guy is a troll. He's been following me around since I joined last month.

I guess there's nothing else to do up there in hickville

[BTS]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14317320/aroldis-chapman-fired-gun-accused-choking-girlfriend-domestic-violence-incident

 

I guess you don't consider choking his girlfriend and then repeatedly firing a gun while she huddled in fear as beating her

 

He denied choking her and was never charged because there was no evidence of physical abuse. And no, I don’t consider firing a gun alone in a garage to be beating someone.

[metafour]

They kept him on the 40 man rather than put him on waivers or releasing him in hopes of finding a sucker. Which they did in atkins.

 

They found a "sucker" in Atkins - a guy that came out of the same f***ing organization - who would know all about Merryweather (he was even in PLAYER DEVELOPMENT in Cleveland LMAO) and apparently how much he sucks? Yeah, that makes total sense.

 

The more logical conclusion is that Cleveland liked him for some particular reason, enough to not give a s*** about a whopping 70 f***ing innings in AAA, and Atkins being FROM THAT ORGANIZATION, would have known the same f***ing information.

 

Is this too complicated for you?

[Deadpool]

So if we trade Stroman, Sanchez and Giles for elite hitting prospects, which in a vacuum would be great, where the f*** is our pitching going to come from? Pearson should be good to great, but we're relying super heavily on Thornton, Murphy, SRF, Borucki and like... Tepera and Paulino? Our pitching looks a LOT worse without Stroman and Giles, so their replacements would have to come from somewhere.

[BTS]

So if we trade Stroman, Sanchez and Giles for elite hitting prospects, which in a vacuum would be great, where the f*** is our pitching going to come from? Pearson should be good to great, but we're relying super heavily on Thornton, Murphy, SRF, Borucki and like... Tepera and Paulino? Our pitching looks a LOT worse without Stroman and Giles, so their replacements would have to come from somewhere.

 

 

It's probably time to spend a bit of money in the offseason. And they'll have a boatload of prospects to trade for an arm. If they trade for one arm, and sign a couple others they could roster a pretty good rotation. Free agents this offseason: Bumgarner, Cole, Gibson, Hill, Porcello, Ryu, Strasburg, Keuchel, Wheeler, Wood.

 

Signing/Trade

Signing/Trade

Shoemaker

Thornton

Pearson

Borucki/Murphy/SRF/Gaviglio

 

Even if the team trades Stroman, the rotation only has to be a problem if the team tucks dick and acts like a mickey mouse organization this offseason.

[mikepelfrey]

They found a "sucker" in Atkins - a guy that came out of the same f***ing organization - who would know all about Merryweather (he was even in PLAYER DEVELOPMENT in Cleveland LMAO) and apparently how much he sucks? Yeah, that makes total sense.

 

The more logical conclusion is that Cleveland liked him for some particular reason, enough to not give a s*** about a whopping 70 f***ing innings in AAA, and Atkins being FROM THAT ORGANIZATION, would have known the same f***ing information.

 

Is this too complicated for you?

no but it obviously is for you

 

According to several others including Dave Nightingale, and John Heyman, Atkins turned down Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or Carson Kelly for Donaldson.

 

https://tipofthetower.com/2018/09/16/toronto-blue-jays-missed-josh-donaldson-trade-opportunity-tough-pill-swallow/

 

But youd rather have Julian Merryweather.

 

I'd rather have the 23 year old too of the rotation left handed ace. But then again that just me..... Wake me when Merryweather does anything

[Ray]

So if we trade Stroman, Sanchez and Giles for elite hitting prospects, which in a vacuum would be great, where the f*** is our pitching going to come from? Pearson should be good to great, but we're relying super heavily on Thornton, Murphy, SRF, Borucki and like... Tepera and Paulino? Our pitching looks a LOT worse without Stroman and Giles, so their replacements would have to come from somewhere.

 

Trading or free agency. It's how a lot of the current contenders built their rotations. Most of their rotations aren't exactly home grown.

[gruber92]

I definitely agree on trading Giles and Stroman for elite bats and addressing the pitching by signing /trading for proven durable arms. f*** pitching prospects.

[mikepelfrey]

They found a "sucker" in Atkins - a guy that came out of the same f***ing organization - who would know all about Merryweather (he was even in PLAYER DEVELOPMENT in Cleveland LMAO) and apparently how much he sucks? Yeah, that makes total sense.

 

The more logical conclusion is that Cleveland liked him for some particular reason, enough to not give a s*** about a whopping 70 f***ing innings in AAA, and Atkins being FROM THAT ORGANIZATION, would have known the same f***ing information.

 

Is this too complicated for you?

 

Just because Atkins was in player development in Cleveland doesn't mean he's a good judge of talent

 

As preferring Julian Merryweather over Flaherty++ proves to anyone with a brain which by now metafour you've shown you're sorely lacking in

[mikepelfrey]

I definitely agree on trading Giles and Stroman for elite bats and addressing the pitching by signing /trading for proven durable arms. f*** pitching prospects.

Honest question:

 

Care to give any examples as to whom? Considering the return for Happ was McKinney and Drury....that doesn't seem to fit the bill as elite bats. Just a few examples of who you think we can get.

 

I just ask because Happ is the closest example of this in atkins history to demonstrate his skill or lack thereof

 

Archer returned Glasnow and Meadows...Isn't Stroman at least in his level. And I have zero confidence Atkins can match that return

Edited May 31, 2019 by mikepelfrey

[Spanky99]

Ugghhh... these new posters.

 

[BTS]

Just because Atkins was in player development in Cleveland doesn't mean he's a good judge of talent

 

As preferring Julian Merryweather over Flaherty++ proves to anyone with a brain which by now metafour you've shown you're sorely lacking in

 

Pretending that metafour said he prefers Merryweather to Flaherty and Bader makes you sound stupid instead of having whatever effect you’re intending.

[mikepelfrey]

No it says he wasn't aware that Atkins turned that deal down. And settled for Merryweather which is exactly what I posted

 

It makes him sound uninformed which he is.

 

Nightingale specifically said the Jays turned down a "package" fronted by Flaherty. Nightingale later confirmed to Chris Russo on "High Heat" it was 2 of Flaherty, Bader, or Kelly.

 

What in Atkins history says he's qualified to make those Decisions? Is it Happ for McKinney and Drury?

 

I'm just pointing out what should be obvious by now

 

Archer returned Glasnow and Meadows.

Chapman returned Gleyber Torres

Happ returned McKinney and Drury

Donaldson returned Merryweather

 

Two years ago the yankees got major league win leader Domingo German for David Phelps

 

Last year they got Luke Voit for Gio Gallegos and Chasen Shreve.

 

I'm just pointing out other teams can find diamonds in the rough. We are the biggest market in baseball why can't we?

 

Why do we always make excuses for our mediocre front office. Shanahan and Dubas are held accountable, why not Atkins and Shapiro?

Edited May 31, 2019 by mikepelfrey

[BTS]

No it says he wasn't aware that Atkins turned that deal down. And settled for Merryweather which is exactly what I posted

 

It makes him sound uninformed which he is.

 

Nightingale specifically said the Jays turned down a "package" fronted by Flaherty. Nightingale later confirmed to Chris Russo on "High Heat" it was 2 of Flaherty, Bader, or Kelly.

 

What in Atkins history says he's qualified to make those Decisions? Is it Happ for McKinney and Drury?

 

I think the Jays subreddit and facebook pages might be more up your alley.