General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[P2F]

Bud Norris to the Blue Jays.

 

Jays must've decided to sign him after Ken Giles imploded in today's outing..

 

And regarding Giles:

 

0.0 IP, 2H, 4ER, 3 BB.. either he's working on something or he's hiding an injury. Because that is ugly..

 

Yep. Only two possibilities.

[jaysfan2014]

What was the velocity like?

 

No idea--but he sure as hell couldn't find the plate.

[Jimcanuck]

No idea--but he sure as hell couldn't find the plate.

 

its ST, he's just warming up, doesnt give a s*** about results

[Terminator]

Bud Norris to the Blue Jays.

 

Jays must've decided to sign him after Ken Giles imploded in today's outing..

 

And regarding Giles:

 

0.0 IP, 2H, 4ER, 3 BB.. either he's working on something or he's hiding an injury. Because that is ugly..

 

I don't think it's anything to worry about just yet. Beginning of ST he might just have had trouble locating while he knocks the rust off.

[Jonn]

First outing not even worried about it. Would be nice if Giles has a nice first half so we can trade him for a haul.

[saskjayfan]

First outing not even worried about it. Would be nice if Giles has a nice first half so we can trade him for a haul.

 

He's got 2 years of control Are we giving up all hope of competing in 2020? It wouldn't be so bad to roll the dice and sign him to an extension on the cheap right now.

[Jimcanuck]

He's got 2 years of control Are we giving up all hope of competing in 2020? It wouldn't be so bad to roll the dice and sign him to an extension on the cheap right now.

 

maybe a bit premature

[saskjayfan]

maybe a bit premature

 

Why? You want to wait for a bounce back and pay double? At some point the Jays are going to have to gamble to make up ground on the Yankees and Sox.

[Krylian]

He's got 2 years of control Are we giving up all hope of competing in 2020? It wouldn't be so bad to roll the dice and sign him to an extension on the cheap right now.

 

We're not competing in 2020.

[BTS]

So I'm looking at the 40-man to see who might get the boot to make room for Buttholes, and the roster on their website has 41 guys, which someone called Gunnar Heidt having been added. I'm assuming this is a mistake considering that he's 26 and has been terrible in AA the last two years?

[Frag]

Everyone angry at Atkins for stating that Vlad Jr. isn't "MLB-ready" (which is obviously BS).

 

As much as I hate that it's the result of service time manipulation, and that's something that needs to be discussed at the next CBA negotiations, from the Jays' perspective, there's no point wasting a year on what is basically a rebuild year. Call him up in May, and get an extra year out of him that could be used during an actual playoff run.

[G-Snarls]

Everyone angry at Atkins for stating that Vlad Jr. isn't "MLB-ready" (which is obviously BS).

 

As much as I hate that it's the result of service time manipulation, and that's something that needs to be discussed at the next CBA negotiations, from the Jays' perspective, there's no point wasting a year on what is basically a rebuild year. Call him up in May, and get an extra year out of him that could be used during an actual playoff run.

 

Bryant and Acuna went though the same s***. I hate it but I can't blame the team.

 

Though with Bryant, the Cubs were legit contenders that year so it seemed dicier

[Frag]

Also, and this may be a controversial opinion, but I'll say this - I don't think Shapiro and Atkins are doing that bad a job running this team, at least from what I've observed (last year's trades aside). They moved out big contracts signed towards older players (Tulo & Martin) and built up a pretty damn good farm system in the process (I know Vlad Jr. and Jansen were AA's doing, but Bichette and Pearson were Shatkins picks). Their optics are awful, which is why fans hate them. They turned a team that reached the ALCS two years in a row, each run with memorable moments (Joey Bats' bat flip HR & EE's walk-off in the ALWC game), into a rebuilding team (which, to be frank, was kind of inevitable considering how those teams were built). Plus, with the way they are manipulating Vlad Jr's service time, they're pissing off the rest of the league, too.

 

I wish they handled the Donaldson and Happ trades better, considering their lackluster returns, but I kind of trust them building a team into a more stable contender in the long-run.

[Bobthe4th]

Also, and this may be a controversial opinion, but I'll say this - I don't think Shapiro and Atkins are doing that bad a job running this team, at least from what I've observed (last year's trades aside). They moved out big contracts signed towards older players (Tulo & Martin) and built up a pretty damn good farm system in the process (I know Vlad Jr. and Jansen were AA's doing, but Bichette and Pearson were Shatkins picks). Their optics are awful, which is why fans hate them. They turned a team that reached the ALCS two years in a row, each run with memorable moments (Joey Bats' bat flip HR & EE's walk-off in the ALWC game), into a rebuilding team (which, to be frank, was kind of inevitable considering how those teams were built). Plus, with the way they are manipulating Vlad Jr's service time, they're pissing off the rest of the league, too.

 

I wish they handled the Donaldson and Happ trades better, considering their lackluster returns, but I kind of trust them building a team into a more stable contender in the long-run.

 

That's not a controversial opinion here at all. But they deserve zero credit for moving Tulo and Martin. Tulo was released with his contract paid in full, Martin was traded with us paying the vast majority of his 1 year remaining on his contract. Neither was comparable to a deal like AA moving Wells, and any front office could have done the Tulo and Martin deals.

[Frag]

Just to add, I think many fans forget some of the awful moves AA made during his run as Jays GM (maybe Canadian bias? I dunno). People forget about the Reyes mega-trade (which didn't exactly work for either team) and the Dickey trade (which was awful in hindsight), as well as some awful picks he made in the draft (see: Deck McGuire over Chris Sale & DJ Davis over Corey Seager & Michael Wacha).

 

Don't get me wrong: He made awesome moves, too. His Donaldson trade was the stuff of legends, his Vernon Wells trade was a miracle (before trading Napoli for Frank Francisco, which was awful), his Thor, Sanchez, Pillar, and Stroman picks were great, the Bautista extension was amazing, and the Martin signing worked out well. However, he built playoff teams that were not expected to last (2015 was the year to win it all). I think Shapiro saw that, and that's why he didn't see eye-to-eye with AA regarding the future of the club.

[Frag]

That's not a controversial opinion here at all. But they deserve zero credit for moving Tulo and Martin. Tulo was released with his contract paid in full, Martin was traded with us paying the vast majority of his 1 year remaining on his contract. Neither was comparable to a deal like AA moving Wells, and any front office could have done the Tulo and Martin deals.

 

Of course, but moving those contracts out does give the team more financial flexibility in the years when the team is expected to contend (2020 or later).

[TheHurl]

Bryant and Acuna went though the same s***. I hate it but I can't blame the team.

 

Though with Bryant, the Cubs were legit contenders that year so it seemed dicier

 

I think much like the Braves last year, the contention came a year earlier than they expected for the Cubs.

[TheHurl]

Also, and this may be a controversial opinion, but I'll say this - I don't think Shapiro and Atkins are doing that bad a job running this team, at least from what I've observed (last year's trades aside). They moved out big contracts signed towards older players (Tulo & Martin) and built up a pretty damn good farm system in the process (I know Vlad Jr. and Jansen were AA's doing, but Bichette and Pearson were Shatkins picks). Their optics are awful, which is why fans hate them. They turned a team that reached the ALCS two years in a row, each run with memorable moments (Joey Bats' bat flip HR & EE's walk-off in the ALWC game), into a rebuilding team (which, to be frank, was kind of inevitable considering how those teams were built). Plus, with the way they are manipulating Vlad Jr's service time, they're pissing off the rest of the league, too.

 

I wish they handled the Donaldson and Happ trades better, considering their lackluster returns, but I kind of trust them building a team into a more stable contender in the long-run.

 

It's been said (by me a lot) they are never going to be good PR GM's. But they have been really honest and open about the process (until the Vlad thing which they can't be honest an open about or they will be facing an easy lawsuit). Fans in general don't listen to Atkins or Shapiro when they speak (and Toronto local media barely cover it when they are on MLB Network). They have cleared the cupboards bare now (pretty much) and get to change the culture within the organization. They needed buy-in on their systems and that takes time to build. To me, this is the point where you judge Atkins from. What he does from this point on will shape this franchise and the true fans opinions of them. The rebuild isn't complete...it's barely started.

[TheHurl]

the Reyes mega-trade (which didn't exactly work for either team)

 

Unless you see saving over $100M as working out. The following moves for the Marlins were mostly terrible (getting Deitrich for Yunel being a bit of a wash). They move Disco for the Corpse of Mat Latos. Marisnick for Moran. Henderson Alvarez got Cy Young votes and was by far the best player in the deal before his injury. Hech became a legit top of the game defender finally and then the Marlins trade him for Braxton Lee.

 

I think it was June of 2014 when the Marlins surpassed the Jays in actual WAR (not value) from the deal. That is a deal working out...the Marlins just didn't have the right people to follow it up.

[Frag]

Unless you see saving over $100M as working out. The following moves for the Marlins were mostly terrible (getting Deitrich for Yunel being a bit of a wash). They move Disco for the Corpse of Mat Latos. Marisnick for Moran. Henderson Alvarez got Cy Young votes and was by far the best player in the deal before his injury. Hech became a legit top of the game defender finally and then the Marlins trade him for Braxton Lee.

 

I think it was June of 2014 when the Marlins surpassed the Jays in actual WAR (not value) from the deal. That is a deal working out...the Marlins just didn't have the right people to follow it up.

 

The results of that trade were so odd. lol

[Bobthe4th]

Of course, but moving those contracts out does give the team more financial flexibility in the years when the team is expected to contend (2020 or later).

 

That’s the point - it doesn’t make a difference because the contracts still hit the payroll and we still have to pay them.

[L54]

Shatkins did not gain any financial flexibility by moving Russell and Tulo. All they did was clear room for the young guys.

 

Are the Jays on the hook for 2021’s 4M buyout? Or is it the responsibility of whatever team he’s clinging to dear life with?

[Laika]

Also, and this may be a controversial opinion, but I'll say this - I don't think Shapiro and Atkins are doing that bad a job running this team, at least from what I've observed (last year's trades aside).

 

Huh? Why would this be controversial here?

 

Most clear-headed people would actually say that they are doing a pretty damn good job.

 

I mean don't go expressing this opinion on the subway or anything, I guess.

[Frag]

I'm mistaken, then (regarding the contracts). That being said, I have trust in them, but it's with a bit of caution considering some of the trades they made last year.

[Frag]

Huh? Why would this be controversial here?

 

Most clear-headed people would actually say that they are doing a pretty damn good job.

 

I mean don't go expressing this opinion on the subway or anything, I guess.

 

Seems controversial when I go on Twitter or read most MSM articles.

[Laika]

Seems controversial when I go on Twitter or read most MSM articles.

 

tweet less; post here more

[Frag]

tweet less; post here more

 

Twitter is a shitshow.

[Spanky99]

lol... they can't do a damn thing about it, but file a grievance(they already have). Good Luck!

 

Thu, Feb 28

 

Rob Longley of the Toronto Sun reports that the MLBPA is keeping a close eye on the potential service time manipulation of 3B prospect Vladimir Guerrero.

 

Advice: "It’s something we are following and it’s going to be an issue," the players association source told Longley. "Service-time manipulation has been a prominent theme that the players association has emphasized in its talks with Major League Baseball." On Tuesday, Atkins went on MLB Network Radio and confirmed that Guerrero Jr. would start the year in Triple-A, citing that at 19-years-old, he isn't a big-league player. He's also stated that there's no timeline for his promotion. If the Blue Jays delay the promotion until the middle of April or later, the third baseman won't become a free agent until 2025. The teenager argument doesn't hold much water with a prospect like this, not after we saw what Juan Soto and Ronald Acuna did at similar ages, and Guerrero Jr. is regarded as a better offensive prospect than both. The only reason he's not a lock to make the MLB roster is financial, and it appears the MLBPA is paying close attention.

 

More: Toronto Sun

 

(Rotoworld.com)

[Krylian]

Everyone angry at Atkins for stating that Vlad Jr. isn't "MLB-ready" (which is obviously BS).

 

As much as I hate that it's the result of service time manipulation, and that's something that needs to be discussed at the next CBA negotiations, from the Jays' perspective, there's no point wasting a year on what is basically a rebuild year. Call him up in May, and get an extra year out of him that could be used during an actual playoff run.

 

They're not angry at the service time manipulation and keeping hin down, they're mad cause he panicked and flat out lied by saying he wasn't ML ready. It was a stupid thing to do and I want my GM to have more sense than that.

 

'We really love Vladdy and he's going to be a huge part of our future. Is he ready to start with the big club? That's why we have Spring training...so we can evaluate. We'll know more over the next month." Done.

[Frag]

They're not angry at the service time manipulation and keeping hin down, they're mad cause he panicked and flat out lied by saying he wasn't ML ready. It was a stupid thing to do and I want my GM to have more sense than that.

 

'We really love Vladdy and he's going to be a huge part of our future. Is he ready to start with the big club? That's why we have Spring training...so we can evaluate. We'll know more over the next month." Done.

 

Oh, he sucks at lying, and I get people are angry at that, too (which is why I said it's BS).