Donaldson Aug 31 Trade Thread

[G-Snarls]

I'm trying out a new sarcasm declaration system when I respond to a mix of serious and sarcastic posts. It helps avoid confusion.

[Bobthe4th]

I'm trying out a new sarcasm declaration system when I respond to a mix of serious and sarcastic posts. It helps avoid confusion.

 

Or you could just use /s like the rest of the cool kids!

[Ray]

Combined WAR of JD, Bautista, Edwin, Tulo, and Martin:

 

2015: 24.3

2016: 17.9

2017: 9.0

2018: 3.9

 

If only Shapiro extended these guys to long-term deals, or doubled down to add more expensive vets at the expense of prospects. Then we'd be in much better shape.

 

In hindsight, Edwin turning down $80M and Donaldson turning down the extension is looking real good right now.

[G-Snarls]

In hindsight, Edwin turning down $80M and Donaldson turning down the extension is looking real good right now.

 

Sure is

 

And Martin was signed knowing full well he'd decline during his tenure here. He was still completely worth it - he was an integral part of those playoff bound teams.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Yeah. To pay him back for all his underpaid superstar years.

 

(sarcastic post to match the original poster's sarcasm)

 

Maybe $180M. $30M for the bat flip.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Sure is

 

And Martin was signed knowing full well he'd decline during his tenure here. He was still completely worth it - he was an integral part of those playoff bound teams.

 

I agree. I even see a spot on the 2019 roster for him. But I would be more inclined to try and find a home for him with a contender, throw in a lot of cash, and try for a couple decent prospects.

[saskjayfan]

In hindsight, Edwin turning down $80M and Donaldson turning down the extension is looking real good right now.

 

 

So you're saying our GM is lucky not good?

[John_Havok]

I agree. I even see a spot on the 2019 roster for him. But I would be more inclined to try and find a home for him with a contender, throw in a lot of cash, and try for a couple decent prospects.

 

Nobody is paying decent prospects for Martin regardless if how much money you eat

[MunenoriKawasakiMVP]

Nobody is paying decent prospects for Martin regardless if how much money you eat

 

There are 2 teams, maybe even 3 still in the playoffs in which Martin would be an upgrade at the catcher position. Pina, Vazquez and McCann are all worse than Martin, who had an unlucky season with the bat and limited play time at the end of the year. You retain half of Russ salary and I'm convinced there are takers.

[John_Havok]

There are 2 teams, maybe even 3 still in the playoffs in which Martin would be an upgrade at the catcher position. Pina, Vazquez and McCann are all worse than Martin, who had an unlucky season with the bat and limited play time at the end of the year. You retain half of Russ salary and I'm convinced there are takers.

 

Regardless of whether they see him as an upgrade (however slight that upgrade might be), you have to realize that giving up decent prospects for a slight upgrade, especially at catcher... doesn't happen

[Captain Adama]

Yea cause we'd rather have Justin Smoak! lol

 

Edwin Encarnacion since 2017: 121 wRC+ at 20 million/yr

Justin Smoak since 2017: 127 wRC+ at 6.5 million/yr

 

Yes....we would.

[Captain Adama]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

Lol.

[Sammy225]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

This is probably the most cringe worthy thing i have seen for a long time on this board. lol

[metafour]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

The hockey forums are that way ------------->

[DigitalRock]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

Garbage tier verbal diahrea.

[BTS]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

lmao

[jays4life19]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

Just wanted to quote.

[P2F]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

 

Amen, brother.

[King]

These were the heart and soul of the team and WERE superstars in Toronto without question. You wonder why nobody is buying tickets anymore? Because Jays have no starpower anymore. Forget what these guys are doing since they left, who cares. Point is they're all gone with absolutely nothing to show for them. Everyone knows they completely botched both Edwin and JD. And who's to say if Edwin was still at Rogers he wouldn't be putting up 40 hr seasons still? Jose has just washed up but I still rather see him wash up as a jay than elsewhere (and atleast he can get on base FFS unlike 80% of the jays lineup, you DOLT) and his presence there would sell a heck of a lot more tickers and interest fans much more. Funny thing is when watching games, if you look around Rogers center, nobody is wearing Jersey's of current players. ALmost every Jersey I see is Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin and Osuna (before he was banished and vilified), with the few Tulo, Stroman etc, but very few. Beavis and Butthead running the show have done nothing but destroy the team (BOTH production and ticket sales) since coming on because they have zero emotion towards the team and couldn't care less about the legacy players.

And Osuna wasn't a superstar as a jay? You my pal, are an idiot.

Wow!

[Boxcar]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

[King]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Wow!

[KevinGregg]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

excellent post

[Olerud363]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Well. This is somewhat interesting, but I don't know if Boxy was the original author. I remember seeing this post a couple years ago. That being said it's a pretty good post, in the older style of long involved conversation rather then the new style, that's much shorter (because of the difficulties typing long posts and reading them on the smart phone.

 

So... if we are back to a bit of a longer post style, I have a few thoughts which I will number to make it a little more organized.

 

1. Congratulations to Spanky on 50000 posts. Great job a real legend.

2. Congratulations to Paul Beeston on being right about 2015. His original quote in 2013 ws "If we don't win this year, we'll win next year, and if not next year the year after that. And he was totally right about that (as the year after that was 2015), so even though I made of fun him he was correct.

3. What ever happened to Moogy?? Was Moogy Stoeten??

4. Who should be the next manager?? What is it with people suggesting players like Tulo, Martin, and even Bautista?? You know you don't get to not pay them their players salary if they are manager.

5. It's still all about on base percentage. I know with the new analytics on base percentage is old school. But the Jays need to get the team on base percentage back to .330 or higher to contend in the East. Yankees and Red Sox, and even the Rays all will do it with money (get the best hitters) and smarts. So the Jays need to make sure the boys get on base. Little Vladdy will help in that respect, but guys like Grichuk need to do their part. Get it up over .315 at least. And Pillar... can't see how we can carry a guy with a .280 on base percentage especially a 30 year old. And Teoscar?? Needs to improve the defense and the on base percentage. Jansen looks like he can do the job (I predict a .340 on base percentage). But Mckinney?? Gurriel?? Diaz?? These guys don't get on base. Maybe they can learn how.

6. Do you guys think John Olerud could of made the hall of fame if he it wasn't for Cito Gaston?? Keep in mind Olerud had 8 WAR in 1993 and 1998 but was like a platoon player between those years. Cito should never of platonned him. I think Olerud would of had a much better career without Cito. Also Cito's hitting tips weren't very good, and if Olerud had betting hitting tips he would of done even better.

7. Counterpoint to 6 - In 2018 there is a flyball revolution, and Cito was all about pulling the flyballs. Pull the ball boys he would say! Why didn't it work in 2010?? I think it almost did, he cranked up the homers to like 250, but cranked down the on base percentage. If he just told the boys to keep pulling some fly balls, but allowed them to hit a flyball to the opposite field, and take a walk once and a while it would of all came together.

 

OK. That's it. I don't know if I have that much to say. Nothing really to say on the Yankees facial hair rules.

 

Wait. One more thing. It's about the #metoo, as I sense some people here are not really into all that, and they think that the social justice warriors are really taking over, to an extent that it's to much. I heard about... I think Sheryl Ring or somethign?? I've never really read her, or know much about the situation, but if she is fighting you, then maybe fight back?? I don't know a lot about this battle, but I have seen the NPC (Non Player Character) mems going around, and I have to admit they are kind of funny (even though I'm not an alt-righter really). So why not send Sherryl Ring some NPC memes if she is really being offensive to you?? Just an idea.

 

Thanks for listening.

[BTS]

Well. This is somewhat interesting, but I don't know if Boxy was the original author. I remember seeing this post a couple years ago. That being said it's a pretty good post, in the older style of long involved conversation rather then the new style, that's much shorter (because of the difficulties typing long posts and reading them on the smart phone.

 

So... if we are back to a bit of a longer post style, I have a few thoughts which I will number to make it a little more organized.

 

1. Congratulations to Spanky on 50000 posts. Great job a real legend.

2. Congratulations to Paul Beeston on being right about 2015. His original quote in 2013 ws "If we don't win this year, we'll win next year, and if not next year the year after that. And he was totally right about that (as the year after that was 2015), so even though I made of fun him he was correct.

3. What ever happened to Moogy?? Was Moogy Stoeten??

4. Who should be the next manager?? What is it with people suggesting players like Tulo, Martin, and even Bautista?? You know you don't get to not pay them their players salary if they are manager.

5. It's still all about on base percentage. I know with the new analytics on base percentage is old school. But the Jays need to get the team on base percentage back to .330 or higher to contend in the East. Yankees and Red Sox, and even the Rays all will do it with money (get the best hitters) and smarts. So the Jays need to make sure the boys get on base. Little Vladdy will help in that respect, but guys like Grichuk need to do their part. Get it up over .315 at least. And Pillar... can't see how we can carry a guy with a .280 on base percentage especially a 30 year old. And Teoscar?? Needs to improve the defense and the on base percentage. Jansen looks like he can do the job (I predict a .340 on base percentage). But Mckinney?? Gurriel?? Diaz?? These guys don't get on base. Maybe they can learn how.

6. Do you guys think John Olerud could of made the hall of fame if he it wasn't for Cito Gaston?? Keep in mind Olerud had 8 WAR in 1993 and 1998 but was like a platoon player between those years. Cito should never of platonned him. I think Olerud would of had a much better career without Cito. Also Cito's hitting tips weren't very good, and if Olerud had betting hitting tips he would of done even better.

7. Counterpoint to 6 - In 2018 there is a flyball revolution, and Cito was all about pulling the flyballs. Pull the ball boys he would say! Why didn't it work in 2010?? I think it almost did, he cranked up the homers to like 250, but cranked down the on base percentage. If he just told the boys to keep pulling some fly balls, but allowed them to hit a flyball to the opposite field, and take a walk once and a while it would of all came together.

 

OK. That's it. I don't know if I have that much to say. Nothing really to say on the Yankees facial hair rules.

 

Wait. One more thing. It's about the #metoo, as I sense some people here are not really into all that, and they think that the social justice warriors are really taking over, to an extent that it's to much. I heard about... I think Sheryl Ring or somethign?? I've never really read her, or know much about the situation, but if she is fighting you, then maybe fight back?? I don't know a lot about this battle, but I have seen the NPC (Non Player Character) mems going around, and I have to admit they are kind of funny (even though I'm not an alt-righter really). So why not send Sherryl Ring some NPC memes if she is really being offensive to you?? Just an idea.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

We have a new way of posting on this forum. Just open a word document, title it as follows:

http://www.olerudthoughts.gov.www/olerudthoughts

and post away.

[Pendleton]

We have a new way of posting on this forum. Just open a word document, title it as follows:

http://www.olerudthoughts.gov.www/olerudthoughts

and post away.

 

[DigitalRock]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Let me stock up on weed and coffee before reading this novel.... (s*** turns out the province is out of weed).

[P2F]

 

[Ray]

I think we might have won the trade

[G-Snarls]

I think we might have won the trade

 

We may have won both times he was traded

 

Not very often you can say that

[Jays24]

Just scrolling up and holy s***, guys were writing novels during the dark times lol.