Please call up Vlad Guerrero Jr. Thread

[Terminator]

I think they feel the pitching is more "talented" currently in our AA league and want to keep him, Bo, Biggio, and Reid-Foley togther. I could see all 4 coming up after the trade deadline on our current path

 

If that's true then the team is run by retards.

[Brownie19]

I wonder why he's not in Buffalo. Atkins said AAA was an important step for him. Do they feel his defense can develop better at AA?

 

It's all just talk so they can justify holding him down in the minors until late April 2018...

[BTS]

Vlad is not going to make a 5 win difference.

 

He doesn’t have to. He could make a 2-3 win difference, and that might be enough.

[Brownie19]

I don't understand why everyone is writing off the 2018 team. They're currently projected to win 81 games. The Angels are projected to take the second wild card with 86 wins.

 

Vlad could make a very real difference this year.

 

Do those predictions factor in that we've probably lost Osuna for the rest of the year?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I often get pessimistic too quickly, but the outlook is f***ing bleak for the Jays. As of right now - I've all but lost interest in the day to day games.

 

- Osuna's f***ed

- Stro's hurt

- Sanchez is what most thought he was before 2016.

- Travis sucks

- Estrada may be done.

- Garcia's hurt.

- Tulo + his insurance (Diaz) are hurt. (side note that I'm still optimistic that Diaz can hit. No idea what his xwRC+ is - if that's even a stat, but his BABIP is only .200)

- Grichuk was god awful and hurt.

- Martin's been garbage.

- Morales is done.

- Alford get hurts and is lost right now

- Pearce finally hits, but gets hurt.

 

I mean we were all optimistic that if things broke right, this team could contend for the wild card....so far, it's been almost the complete opposite. It's probably a small miracle we are where we are with Pillar + Luke f***ing Maile leading the team in WAR. Maybe that's the point, as it probably can't get any worse?

 

At this point, you're calling up Vlad because you think he's ready and you think it's the right thing to do. You're not doing it because you believe you have a legitimate shot at the 2nd wild card spot.

[BTS]

Do those predictions factor in that we've probably lost Osuna for the rest of the year?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I often get pessimistic too quickly, but the outlook is f***ing bleak for the Jays. As of right now - I've all but lost interest in the day to day games.

 

- Osuna's f***ed

- Stro's hurt

- Sanchez is what most thought he was before 2016.

- Travis sucks

- Estrada may be done.

- Garcia's hurt.

- Tulo + his insurance (Diaz) are hurt. (side note that I'm still optimistic that Diaz can hit. No idea what his xwRC+ is - if that's even a stat, but his BABIP is only .200)

- Grichuk was god awful and hurt.

- Martin's been garbage.

- Morales is done.

- Alford get hurts and is lost right now

- Pearce finally hits, but gets hurt.

 

I mean we were all optimistic that if things broke right, this team could contend for the wild card....so far, it's been almost the complete opposite. It's probably a small miracle we are where we are with Pillar + Luke f***ing Maile leading the team in WAR. Maybe that's the point, as it probably can't get any worse?

 

At this point, you're calling up Vlad because you think he's ready and you think it's the right thing to do. You're not doing it because you believe you have a legitimate shot at the 2nd wild card spot.

 

I just hate the idea of letting someone who could help the team spend almost a full calendar year in the minors after clearly demonstrating that he's ready now. I'd feel different if we were the Marlins or White Sox, but 85-86 wins is still not out of the question.

[Spanky99]

Yes, the next best option on a team that expects to contend for a World Series. I think it was an aggressive call up, but at least it was justifiable from that sense if they felt he was going to improve the team. For them, every win matters.

 

For the Jays, it's clearly a different scenario. Also, as I said, look at the history of GREAT players who didn't do jack ish at age 19 in the bigs. Even if we call Vlad up it doesn't mean he's going to do well, and in that case, what's the point? If he comes in and hits like Harper, it won't help the team make the playoffs since they appear to have way too many other issues to overcome, and if he comes in and struggles like many other great players did at that age, then you wasted months of his service clock on a season where he could have worked on his D and other things in the minors.

 

I just don't get the logic here. I'd expect the mouth breathers on Twitter to demand Vladdy be called up but not anyone who is looking at this team objectively. Is it unfair to Vlad to be this good and be stuck in AA? Absolutely. But change the CBA then (which I have said for years they should do....the game treats its players like crap).

 

Yeah that's why I mentioned it, kid will be interesting to follow. As for the rest, my opinion is quite simple, if they're going to showcase him at anytime here in '18 then he should be called up now, other wise keep him in AA until their AS game, move him to Buffalo following that and start his MLB career in the 2nd week of '19.

 

Also, folk are talking like we're done for the year, lots of baseball left. They need to get healthy and some quality starting pitching and they could crawl back into it.

[xposbrad]

Would we use part of Vladdy's eligibility on a wasted year? If so, there's absolutely 0 point to calling him up. He's not going to change the starting pitching, and several other holes the team has. We'd just be using service time that would hurt the club later on. Let's think of the big picture here.

[BTS]

Also, MLB needs to do something about this. Delaying the arrival of exciting prospects for service time reasons is terrible for the game.

[Spanky99]

But Glory's point remains. The Nats have a very good team (when healthy) and with Harper hitting the FA market this offseason, it certainly appears they are desperate to make a deep playoff run. They are calling up Soto b/c of all their injuries, but they are also doing it b/c they think he can help them win now.

 

Adding Vlad to this Jays team likely changes nothing.

 

See my post above, I understand how this all unfolded and the reason why, it's why I mentioned it.

[glory]

I agree it's early, but Osuna is probably done for the year, Stroman is hurt, Sanchez sucks again, Garcia is hurt, Estrada has regressed to #5 starter level, and the offence is probably middle of the pack at best and that's with JD hitting like he normally does. They had enough depth to cover a bunch of positions, but essentially the guys they could not afford to lose are either lost or not performing. With Stro and JD it is likely injury related, which makes it difficult to project the rest of the year for them (will they be healthy?).

 

I thought this team had 85 win potential before the year started but I'm not seeing it anymore.

[Spanky99]

I agree it's early, but Osuna is probably done for the year, Stroman is hurt, Sanchez sucks again, Garcia is hurt, Estrada has regressed to #5 starter level, and the offence is probably middle of the pack at best and that's with JD hitting like he normally does. They had enough depth to cover a bunch of positions, but essentially the guys they could not afford to lose are either lost or not performing. With Stro and JD it is likely injury related, which makes it difficult to project the rest of the year for them (will they be healthy?).

 

I thought this team had 85 win potential before the year started but I'm not seeing it anymore.

 

Fair enough, still lots of ball to play.

[Spanky99]

Soto is also the 9th OF to play for the Braves this season.

 

Nats, bruh.

 

It's all just talk so they can justify holding him down in the minors until late April 2018...

 

2019

[Brownie19]

I just hate the idea of letting someone who could help the team spend almost a full calendar year in the minors after clearly demonstrating that he's ready now. I'd feel different if we were the Marlins or White Sox, but 85-86 wins is still not out of the question.

 

If this team had a chance of winning 86 games with Vlad on it - then I'm with you. I'm just not sure they are. We're chasing Seattle, LA and probably Minny and the A's for 1 WC spot.

 

If we aren't winning 85+ games, then we basically are the White Sox and Marlins.

[BTS]

If this team had a chance of winning 86 games with Vlad on it - then I'm with you. I'm just not sure they are. We're chasing Seattle, LA and probably Minny and the A's for 1 WC spot.

 

If we aren't winning 85+ games, then we basically are the White Sox and Marlins.

 

Our only point of disagreement on the issue is how likely we think it is that the team gets to 85-86 wins. I don’t think the team is tangibly worse than Minny, Seattle, or Oakland. Especially with Vlad.

[Laika]

There are so many considerations now when it comes to elite prospects like this.

 

Control - this is a technical consideration. You want to maximize your allotted control over a player like this and get nearly 7 years from him, if he goes through the normal control timeline.

 

Competing - if the team can win then you want a player like this up as soon as they can help you. Even if you lose that "seventh" year of control, what good would it be to control him if the team that year isn't competitive? We don't know if Toronto will be any good in 7 years, but we do have an idea of how good or bad they will probably be in the short term. They should also consider the potential "shot in the arm" effect that promoting Vlad could have, it would be like a steroid injection for the roster.

 

Obviously control and competing have some relationship. i.e., you want to align the control of elite players to your competitive window(s).

 

Affinity - this is a personal/personnel consideration. You want your players to like you, and you want players to like your organization. If a promotion will improve Vlad's affinity for the team that may pay all kinds of dividends down the road. Would he be more likely to sign an extension? On the flip-side, if they game his clock transparently will he lose affinity for the org? What about players and prospects outside the org - what will they think about Toronto's decisions with respect to Vlad?

 

Optics / PR - this is probably the least important consideration but it might matter a little bit

[Dr. Dinger]

Also, MLB needs to do something about this. Delaying the arrival of exciting prospects for service time reasons is terrible for the game.

 

I propose a mandatory minimum age of 27.5 (as of, lets say, Nov 1) for free agency with unlimited arb years between 3 years of service time and FA. Minimum 6 years of control stays in place. Also, abolish Super 2. That way teams will actually be incentivized to call up mega prospects as soon as they can contribute to the big league roster. If a team declines to offer arb then of course the player would be granted FA, but with 3-5 arb years, the player would still be making big time $, so the union might be okay with it (lol).

 

I'm sure there are plenty of problems with this idea, but I don't know what else you could ever really do to solve this 'problem.'

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dr. Dinger

[burlingtonbandit]

So how does he learn the skills to play 3rd while not playing 3rd base?

 

Practice. I'm saying he doesn't need to be play 3rd base during games to improve his footwork, first step etc.. Obviously it helps having him perform in game situations but its not like he's going to forget everything.

[burlingtonbandit]

I propose a mandatory minimum age of 27.5 (as of, lets say, Nov 1) for free agency with unlimited arb years between 3 years of service time and FA. Minimum 6 years of control stays in place. Also, abolish Super 2. That way teams will actually be incentivized to call up mega prospects as soon as they can contribute to the big league roster. If a team declines to offer arb then of course the player would be granted FA, but with 3-5 arb years, the player would still be making big time $, so the union might be okay with it (lol).

 

I'm sure there are plenty of problems with this idea, but I don't know what else you could ever really do to solve this 'problem.'

 

Yeah no way the union would agree to that unless those last couple years of Arb. were a representation of the player's full value on the FA market. Even then if Bryce Harper were to say get a 2 year deal this offseason how much does he get? $100-$120 Million?

[Dr. Dinger]

Yeah no way the union would agree to that unless those last couple years of Arb. were a representation of the player's full value on the FA market

 

The thing is, they kind of are these days. Elite players in ARB3 are making $15-20M per season, and if you set a minimum increase for arb salaries, then players in ARB4 and ARB5 would theoretically be making FA $, except they'd just be stuck with the same team a bit longer. But the benefit for them is they make it to the majors first and start making big time money sooner, so there's a tradeoff there.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Call him up.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Call him up.

 

NO NO NO ... This Teams Shittiness and lack of being able to Hit or play may Rub off and effect his Greatness that Vlad the Impaler will be ... soon soon so very soon !

 

Just not now ! I blame peoples impatient need to see him now on cell phones and google!

[CBlake]

Hopefully it’s not before June 2 when I am heading down to Binghamton to see the Fishercats in action, looking forward to it very much. Have no issues with a Buffalo call up as I am seeing the Bisons the next day.

[Abomination]

Vladdy's Steamer projections are now up to 116 wRC+ with 8.3% walk rate, 14.4% k rate in the majors. That's just incredible for a guy in AA.

[Laika]

Vladdy's Steamer projections are now up to 116 wRC+ with 8.3% walk rate, 14.4% k rate in the majors. That's just incredible for a guy in AA.

 

Wow. Projected to be the 41st best hitter in baseball.

[bones10]

2 more hits and a walk for him today. Bichette is struggling big time though

[Orgfiller]

2 more hits and a walk for him today. Bichette is struggling big time though

 

Meh, he's league average as a 20 year old in AA. He's fine, just not on Vlad's level and that's totally fine.

[bones10]

Meh, he's league average as a 20 year old in AA. He's fine, just not on Vlad's level and that's totally fine.

 

Fair enough.

[Spanky99]

2 more hits and a walk for him today. Bichette is struggling big time though

 

Big time? It's just a slump and acclimation.

[Deadpool]

Well, I ordered my custom Vladdy jersey from China, and it's supposed to arrive on the 1st, so call him up around then, and I'll have one of the few ones at the stadium! (Side note: My friend got a Gibbons jersey from the same place, which is pretty hilarious...)

[Krylian]

"We Want Vladdy" sign at the Done.