General 2018 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Boxcar]

I can see them buying out Solarte but I really dont think he's a bad player. Think he was just used way too much in a really bad lineup and he got exposed.

 

...exposed as a poor hitter?

[John_Havok]

Since the debut of Ryan Goins, this team gave something like 3,000-4,000 plate appearances to replacement level players at SS/2B/3B. I'm surprised that people are viewing this depth issue as a "clusterf***" given the recent hardships this team has had filling those spots.

 

The depth issue at MIF is a good thing, and I trust that the FO will be able to maximize value for redundant pieces through trades. The only thing that concerns me is the direction they seem to be headed with on Donaldson since as an outsider, QO seems like the very obvious right choice to me. Not a trade. But I have to trust that they are working with a lot more information than I am on that front.

 

There's plenty of depth without Tulo, Travis or Solarte though. Logjam and depth are not the same thing

[Laika]

we have way too many redundant pieces. Travis, Solarte, Diaz, Pillar, Grichuk, drury....some of these pieces need to be traded. I'd just let Solarte go in the off season.

 

lol

 

good teams have good players on the bench or in platoon roles, and useful players in AAA

[Krylian]

lol

 

good teams have good players on the bench or in platoon roles, and useful players in AAA

 

s***** teams too.

[Barkerscousin]

Travis is too good of a hitter not to recover from this. That BABIP is too low. His swing rates outside the zone are actually down, and his pitch recognition has improved. His bat speed is virtually the same as earlier in his career. I hope the franchise doesn't give up on him,

[Orgfiller]

s***** teams too.

 

Nope

[Krylian]

Nope

 

So the Jays aren't a s***** team?

[BTS]

C - Jansen

1B - Smoak

2B - Gurriel Jr.

3B - Vlad

SS - Diaz

CF - Pillar

LF - McKinney/Hernandez (both have options)

RF - Grichuk

DH - Morales

 

2B - Travis (options)

C/3B - Martin

LF/RF - McKinney/Hernandez (both have options)

2B/LF - Drury (options)

 

- Maile will be non-tendered

- Solarte should be bought out, because he's terrible and the $4.7M the team would save can be put to much better use

- Tulo is probably going to be on the DL

 

If JD is back or Tulo is healthy, just option one/both of Drury/Travis until someone gets hurt.

 

The team has the opposite of a logjam right now: they don't have enough good players. They should be looking to add above-average big league players to the roster to allow them to option some of that ~1-win talent to AAA.

[Pendleton]

^ Solarte's money can definitely be better spent on pitching

[glory]

There will likely be some trades, but based on the roster now, I’d go with:

 

CA Jansen

1B Smoak

2B LGJ

SS Tulo

3B Drury

LF McKinney/Hernandez

CF Pillar

RF Grichuk

DH Morales

 

BN Martin

BN Diaz

BN Pompey (out of options)

BN optionable infielder

 

Solarte bought out, Travis either sent to minors or moved, and one of McKinney/Hernandez starting in AAA.

 

AAA to start the year: McGuire, Vlad, Bichette, Biggio, Tellez (CA, 3b-1B) and Smith, Alford, and McKinney/Hernandez in the outfield.

[BTS]

There will likely be some trades, but based on the roster now, I’d go with:

 

CA Jansen

1B Smoak

2B LGJ

SS Tulo

3B Drury

LF McKinney/Hernandez

CF Pillar

RF Grichuk

DH Morales

 

BN Martin

BN Diaz

BN Pompey (out of options)

BN optionable infielder

 

Solarte bought out, Travis either sent to minors or moved, and one of McKinney/Hernandez starting in AAA.

 

AAA to start the year: McGuire, Vlad, Bichette, Biggio, Tellez (CA, 3b-1B) and Smith, Alford, and McKinney/Hernandez in the outfield.

 

That's actually an impressive amount of optionable talent waiting in AAA.

 

I'd have no issues just cutting ties with Pompey though. He's 26 in a few months and has shown absolutely nothing to make me think he's a viable MLB player.

[Orgfiller]

So the Jays aren't a s***** team?

 

Did you just completely miss the point of his post?

[Orgfiller]

C - Jansen

1B - Smoak

2B - Gurriel Jr.

3B - Vlad

SS - Diaz

CF - Pillar

LF - McKinney/Hernandez (both have options)

RF - Grichuk

DH - Morales

 

2B - Travis (options)

C/3B - Martin

LF/RF - McKinney/Hernandez (both have options)

2B/LF - Drury (options)

 

- Maile will be non-tendered

- Solarte should be bought out, because he's terrible and the $4.7M the team would save can be put to much better use

- Tulo is probably going to be on the DL

 

If JD is back or Tulo is healthy, just option one/both of Drury/Travis until someone gets hurt.

 

The team has the opposite of a logjam right now: they don't have enough good players. They should be looking to add above-average big league players to the roster to allow them to option some of that ~1-win talent to AAA.

 

Yeah there's depth but we're missing high end pieces to be truly competitive. The floor of the team is decent but the ceiling doesn't seem very high. Obviously adding Vlad, Bichette at some point and a full season of Jansen along with some of our other prospects will help elevate that, but they're all too young to rely on. Should be an exciting offseason.

[Barkerscousin]

If you have a young phenom hitting prospect do you want him. Coming into a lineup where he is immidiately the best hitter and possibly the only above average bat.

[Olerud363]

If you have a young phenom hitting prospect do you want him. Coming into a lineup where he is immidiately the best hitter and possibly the only above average bat.

 

it reminds me of when Frank Thomas came up with a young white sox team back in '91.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1991.shtml

 

it could of been a disaster as Frank was the best hitter in a generation and had no protection, but management and the players realized this and really rallied around big Frank. In particular Fisk, Robin Ventura (who was also very young), and Dan Pasqua worked as a unit to make sure Frank was surrounded by good hitters.

 

Martin should be able to handle the Fisk role. Given that Morales has turned it around he could contribute what Pasqua did. So you really just need a third guy to help out. Bo Bichette may eventually be able to do what Ventura did, however I doubt he'll be ready for that next year.

 

Here's an off the wall idea. Why not get Pillar to help out here?? We've always thought that Pillar has had a breakout season in him... thus far it hasn't happened. Put Pillar in as a Vlad protector/table setter and it might inspire him to pick it up a notch.

[Barkerscousin]

Not sure if being trolled

[Olerud363]

Not sure if being trolled

 

Not trolling, in that I'm not really looking into getting into a fake fight, or get a reaction, just making the point in a sort of sarcastic way I guess.

 

If your asking whether Vlad Jr. will hit better if the Jays get a second star, the answer is no. Or atleast I'm not aware of any evidence that shows Vlad would hit significantly better in a better lineup.

 

If you think he'll hit the road running, and immediately be a 7 win player, and you are wondering whether we should get more stars and make a run right away, the answer is... I don't know.

 

Say the Jays are a 75 win team this year, and 75 projected next year (without Vald). Add Vlad. You think Vlad is going to be Pujols right away and add 6 wins (he replaces one of the many 1 WAR guys)... so now they project to 81. Do you try and add a few more wins to get into the wild card hunt?? If that's your question it's a more interesting one.

[tercet]

Any of you penciling Gurribabip over Travis are border-line insane.

[Barkerscousin]

Those are valid points and I don't think the Jay's are a contender. My concern would be Vlads development as a hitter if he is getting pitched around

 

In a lineup of average or slightly above average hitters, Vlad can simply be pitched around. I don't care about it as it reflects the 2019 or 2020 results but more so on the long term impact. The two recent promotions, Acuna and Soto, both hit the ground running but did so in lineups that have a better hitter (Freeman and Harper.)

 

If Vlad comes up and is getting nothing to hit, it might effect his development. He might feel the need to chase pitches outside the zone. The best hitter on this team other than Vlad right now is Donaldson.

 

Now imagine Vlad hitting ahead of Donaldson. All of a sudden you have a situation where it isn't easy to simply pitch around him. Compare that to Vlad hitting ahead of Morales. Morales might have his hot streaks but even his backers would agree that at best he is an above average bat.

 

Do you really want to shrink the development of a once in a generational talent?

 

Quote from Josh Donaldson

 

"If you’ve been around a little bit, people are going to pitch to you the way they’re going to pitch to you. But when you have guys behind you, they’re going to be more apt to make mistakes in the strike zone. They’re going to be more aggressive throwing strikes, but not more aggressive throwing fastballs. They’re going to throw their pitches, but they’re going to throw them more for strikes.”

[SAAviour]

Is this too crazy?

Be done with Pillar. Grichuk in CF. Pompey and Alford fight it out for 4th outfield and to play cf in event of emergency...and then act like a big league club and sign Harper for RF.

 

Vlad and Harper in middle of line up!!!

[LGBJ29]

Those are valid points and I don't think the Jay's are a contender. My concern would be Vlads development as a hitter if he is getting pitched around

 

In a lineup of average or slightly above average hitters, Vlad can simply be pitched around. I don't care about it as it reflects the 2019 or 2020 results but more so on the long term impact. The two recent promotions, Acuna and Soto, both hit the ground running but did so in lineups that have a better hitter (Freeman and Harper.)

 

If Vlad comes up and is getting nothing to hit, it might effect his development. He might feel the need to chase pitches outside the zone. The best hitter on this team other than Vlad right now is Donaldson.

 

Now imagine Vlad hitting ahead of Donaldson. All of a sudden you have a situation where it isn't easy to simply pitch around him. Compare that to Vlad hitting ahead of Morales. Morales might have his hot streaks but even his backers would agree that at best he is an above average bat.

 

Do you really want to shrink the development of a once in a generational talent?

 

Quote from Josh Donaldson

 

"If you’ve been around a little bit, people are going to pitch to you the way they’re going to pitch to you. But when you have guys behind you, they’re going to be more apt to make mistakes in the strike zone. They’re going to be more aggressive throwing strikes, but not more aggressive throwing fastballs. They’re going to throw their pitches, but they’re going to throw them more for strikes.”

 

Vlad has proven to have incredible plate discipline throughout his minor league career. I dont think he gets to the big leagues and all of a sudden loses that ability. I dont understand the notion that receiving better pitches to hit will drastically help his development. If anything, being pitched around will continue his development of pitch selection and plate discipline, which is a more important to a players development than hitting fastballs IMO

[Brownie19]

Any of you penciling Gurribabip over Travis are border-line insane.

 

Gurriel's 2018 BABIP - .354

Travis's 2016 BABIP - .358

Travis's 2015 BABIP - .347

 

*2015 and 2016 were used as those are the last 2 years that Travis was an above average hitter.

[z3r0s]

I'm way more nervous about the fate of Donaldson then I should be right now. I sure hope the FO doesn't f*** this up.

[Grant77]

I'm way more nervous about the fate of Donaldson then I should be right now. I sure hope the FO doesn't f*** this up.

 

The only way we can really screw up is to trade him for less than the value of a first round pick.

[TheHurl]

Any of you penciling Gurribabip over Travis are border-line insane.

 

I think Travis gets dealt. It's not at his highest (possibly lowest) value but unlike before giving him a spot actually blocks someone with some upside. If you can get a reliever for him you probably do it and wish him the best elsewhere.

[TheHurl]

The only way we can really screw up is to trade him for less than the value of a first round pick.

 

Or they don't offer him a QO

[Grant77]

Or they don't offer him a QO

 

That would be a nightmare of a mistake. A qualifying offer can only yield good results for us.

[Bobthe4th]

The only way we can really screw up is to trade him for less than the value of a first round pick.

 

2nd round pick in the early 60s or 70s. Only revenue sharing teams can now potentially receive 1st round picks as QO compensation (and the player has to sign for over $50m).

[Bobthe4th]

That would be a nightmare of a mistake. A qualifying offer can only yield good results for us.

 

Unless he accepts, doesn't play through injury, and prevents money being spent elsewhere. That could be what the front office is worried about.

[BTS]

That would be a nightmare of a mistake. A qualifying offer can only yield good results for us.

 

They don't seem to want him back, for reasons we're probably not aware of.