Around Baseball 2018

[TheHurl]

8 voters thought Johnny Damon deserved to be in the HOF. There's a very good argument for those 8 people to lose their voting rights.

 

Dirtbag (definition meaning white guy who plays hard). Surprisingly he is just behind Rolen on the Bill James HOF monitor rating (neither close to making it but it's not a measure of who deserves to get in but who hits the traditional criteria). It is amazing how accurate that still is to the voting.

[BTS]

A 3.00 FIP reliever got in the HOF. FFS, what is the difference between Hoffman and Wagner. If anything, Wagner was better. Might as well put him in too.

 

Mussina threw 2500 more innings than Hoffman and had 56 more WAR.

 

The continued snubbing of Mussina is probably the most embarrassing aspect of the voting. He's pretty inarguably had one of the 30 best pitching careers ever, and there are no steroid issues to hold against him. It's just a complete inability to recognize how good he was.

[jays4life19]

Looking at Mussina FG page it's pretty fascinating he was able to put up a close to 5 fWAR season with a SwSt% of 4.9

 

Also, the fact that he retired after throwing 200 innings of 3.32 FIP ball.

[BTS]

Looking at Mussina FG page it's pretty fascinating he was able to put up a close to 5 fWAR season with a SwSt% of 4.9

 

Also, the fact that he retired after throwing 200 innings of 3.32 FIP ball.

 

He could have stuck around for three more years, got bombed with like a 5.5 ERA, and made it in to the HOF years ago because 300 wins.

[Terminator]

Mussina even spent 40% of his career with the Yankees.

[Drumcliff]

I thought, perhaps even expected, Walker to do better. I don’t know why, though — no one would ever go broke underestimating the intelligence of Hall of Fame voters. Sheep, many of them, susceptible to whatever shiny campaign or narrative is offered up.

[Captain Adama]

A 3.00 FIP reliever got in the HOF. FFS, what is the difference between Hoffman and Wagner. If anything, Wagner was better. Might as well put him in too.

 

Mussina threw 2500 more innings than Hoffman and had 56 more WAR.

 

I don't disagree regarding Wagner, but a FIP of 3 looks much better when Hoffman pitched than what is does now.

[Jimcanuck]

seems like not many of them put any analysis into it. more like "oh he was good, i liked him, yeah" and "Rolen, oh yeah, solid player, but nothing special - i dont remember any headlines"

[FrozenRopes]

How Does Manny not get in on his first try?

[Jimcanuck]

Edgar, Walker, Rolen, Mussina are more deserving than Manny

 

Also, weren't there PED issues with Manny

[Spanky__99]

8 voters thought Johnny Damon deserved to be in the HOF. There's a very good argument for those 8 people to lose their voting rights.

 

lol... no doubt.

[Spanky__99]

Thome wasn't even a better hitter than Martinez, career or peak. The voters have no idea what they're doing.

 

[Pendleton]

8 voters thought Johnny Damon deserved to be in the HOF. There's a very good argument for those 8 people to lose their voting rights.

 

Yeah that's just brutal

[AledmysDiaz]

If Martinez makes the HOF, the Mariners will be the only team I have ever seen that had three HOF in their prime and failed to win a WS

[Boxcar]

If Martinez makes the HOF, the Mariners will be the only team I have ever seen that had three HOF in their prime and failed to win a WS

 

There was a case for Moyer too.

[Governator]

Sooo... are we going to celebrate that Ryan Goins is no longer a Blue Jay?

[BTS]

Sooo... are we going to celebrate that Ryan Goins is no longer a Blue Jay?

 

You haven’t started yet?

[AledmysDiaz]

Newb to the forum question

 

Would Kevin Pillar be enough to acquire Danny Salazar from the Indians, or are we giving up too much? and would we be a better team if we then went out into the FA Market and signed Cain.

[Pendleton]

Newb to the forum question

 

Would Kevin Pillar be enough to acquire Danny Salazar from the Indians, or are we giving up too much? and would we be a better team if we then went out into the FA Market and signed Cain.

 

Indians wouldn't touch that, I really doubt Pillar could fetch us a decent SP, just doesn't have much value.

[Olerud363]

Newb to the forum question

 

Would Kevin Pillar be enough to acquire Danny Salazar from the Indians, or are we giving up too much? and would we be a better team if we then went out into the FA Market and signed Cain.

 

Just looking at fWAR it actually looks pretty even. I'm not sure about the contracts, but I assume both have 3 years of control left, somewhat cheap.

 

The wrinkle is Salazar has put up his numbers despite missing 40% of time. So if he could be healthy for an entire year, he'd be way more valuable than Pillar.

 

To answer weather the Jays are better with Salazar and Cain, you have to compare them to Pillar and Mr. X. Where Mr. X. is whoever Jays can get using free agent money on a pitcher instead of Cain.

[Boxcar]

Indians wouldn't touch that, I really doubt Pillar could fetch us a decent SP, just doesn't have much value.

 

Indians are probably uninterested because of Zimmer but Salazar isn't exactly the picture of health. There's even a pretty good chance that the Indians move him to the pen in the near future over health concerns. I don't think this is a very imbalanced proposal in terms of value because Pillar has been a pretty good player ever since he became our full time CF and has stayed healthy.

[z3r0s]

It would make sense for the Jays if they could fit it in the payroll, but I have real doubts the Indians would bite on that

[Brownie19]

If we truly had an option to sign Cain at 4 years, $64M and trade Pillar for a starting pitcher with similar value (1.5-2.5 WAR), age and control then I think Shatkins would do that in a heartbeat (T.Walker, P.Corbin, Straily, I.Nova, Duffy, Chase Anderson, all randomly come to mind). I read an article on Cain yesterday that he's still super fast and his exit velocity is the same as Edwin and Springer (I'd always viewed him more of a contact guy), which gives me hope his bat would age well.

[glory]

Pillar for Salazar would be awesome from an upside standpoint, but yeah I don't see the Indians doing it, even though from a WAR standpoint it's close. Any team that needs a CF can just sign Dyson if they need a cheap short term one.

[Boxcar]

If we truly had an option to sign Cain at 4 years, $64M and trade Pillar for a starting pitcher with similar value (1.5-2.5 WAR), age and control then I think Shatkins would do that in a heartbeat (T.Walker, P.Corbin, Straily, I.Nova, Duffy, Chase Anderson, all randomly come to mind). I read an article on Cain yesterday that he's still super fast and his exit velocity is the same as Edwin and Springer (I'd always viewed him more of a contact guy), which gives me hope his bat would age well.

 

Good point, it seems as though KC, in all their abundant wisdom, discourages their players from hitting the ball in the air. Could be a good opportunity with Cain.

[glory]

 

Sounds like any team that offers five years will get him, but doubt the Jays would even consider that at this point.

 

If the Jays signed Cain and then traded Pillar and Pearce for cheap SP/RP depth (to save money/add Cain's salary to the roster), is the team better, worse, or the same?

[Dr. Dinger]

Kevin Pillar would be fine as a 4th OF, I'd be totally fine with sticking Teoscar in Buffalo and cutting Zeke. I really hope we are still in on Cain, he's looking like he'll be the best WAR/$ value of the FA season.

[Abomination]

If the Jays signed Cain and then traded Pillar and Pearce for cheap SP/RP depth (to save money/add Cain's salary to the roster), is the team better, worse, or the same?

 

I think the team is very clearly better for the next year or two by doing that.

 

The Giants would make sense as a trading partner for Pillar. The Cubs might too as he'd be an upgrade over Almora probably, but they already have a bit of an outfield glut. Cleveland makes sense, but there's no way they'd do it for Salazar. Maybe to the Royals for someone like Jake Junis? Maybe to the Pirates for Nova?

 

The Braves could be a good destination for Pearce. Pearce seems like the kind of guy Seattle would target for CF...

[Bobthe4th]

I think the team is very clearly better for the next year or two by doing that.

 

The Giants would make sense as a trading partner for Pillar. The Cubs might too as he'd be an upgrade over Almora probably, but they already have a bit of an outfield glut. Cleveland makes sense, but there's no way they'd do it for Salazar. Maybe to the Royals for someone like Jake Junis? Maybe to the Pirates for Nova?

 

The Braves could be a good destination for Pearce. Pearce seems like the kind of guy Seattle would target for CF...

 

I figured the Giants were no longer looking for a defensive CF after signing Austin Jackson, but apparently they intend to use him to rotate through all their OF spots, and then play more than a strictly backup 4th outfielder.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

I figured the Giants were no longer looking for a defensive CF after signing Austin Jackson, but apparently they intend to use him to rotate through all their OF spots, and then play more than a strictly backup 4th outfielder.

 

Yes from what I Read the Gaints seem to still really want a CF as well !

 

So Would a pillar, Tepera, Loup and Smoak deal for Pence, Belt , Austin Slater, Sandro Fabin and DJ Snelten!

 

Of course then we would have to Put on our big boy pants and eat half or more and rid ourself of Morales and carrea as well to clear some cap space no doubt as well !