Braves hire Alex Anthopoulos as GM

[Brownie19]

I knew some clown would chime in with this.

 

Exploiting a loophole and drafting well are two entirely different things. The poster I was responding to outright said that his DRAFTING RECORD was "elite"; thus I was responding to that statement and ONLY THAT statement. Even the worst drafting team in the league can draft well if you give them enough picks, that doesn't make them an "elite" drafting team. It is incredibly important to differentiate between those two realities, because in our case there was a clear correlation between when we had an ass-load of picks and when we were pumping out results. When the picks went away, suddenly our success was no different than anyone else's. How can you possibly argue that our drafting was "elite" when almost every position player we drafted with a top pick flopped (Thon, Sweeney, Hawkins, DJ Davis, that OFer that was permanently injured, etc)? Yes, we hit on some pitchers, but we missed on just as many (or more) than we hit on (which should be expected, I'm not knocking them on that).

 

Overall, we were a good drafting team, but far too flawed to consider "elite". Teams like the Cardinals who enjoyed no extra picks and picked much lower than us every year yet still produced MLB contributors were better "drafting" teams than us.

 

Since 2011, Toronto's had 33 picks in the first 3 rounds. St. Louis has had 30....yet Toronto's draft picks (all rounds) have produced 62% more WAR than Cardinal draft picks. The Cards have enjoyed extra picks (they had two first rounders + 3 comp picks in 2012 and two 1st round picks in 2013 + 2014 and three 1st round picks in 2016), but you're too arrogant to even look.

 

How you like them apples clown?

[Olerud363]

I hate ceilings...

 

What some members of this board just read is that 140 career fWAR is coming through the systems

 

Ceilings are mostly for fun. Take a few guys who a minor league player is most similar too, take the best of that lot and that's the ceiling. It's the absolute best outcome for a player at stage x.

 

How unique are Bo and Vlad?? How many players have the Jays had in their history that have reached aproximately that level??

 

Travis Snider, Vernon Wells, Carlos Delgado who am I missing?

 

High school draft picks, international signings who had great seasons young (18-20). How often do guys like that come along, even at the prospect level??

[Abomination]

A more accurate comp for absolute ceiling is probably Miguel Cabrera for Vlad, Mike Cameron for Alford, and Brandon Phillips or Howie Kendrick for Bichette.

 

Bichette will obviously depend on how his swing handles the higher levels. If he gets exploited a bit, I think Dozier could be a decent ceiling comp (maybe with closer to 30 home runs though). If he doesn't get exploited, I think Cano could be a good ceiling. I really don't see him stealing a lot of bases in the majors.

 

I think a good ceiling for Alford might be McCutchen.

 

Vlad is maybe a little harder. Pujols or Miggy may not actually be unreasonable ceilings, although I think it's tough to suggest that for any player. Maybe Manny Ramirez, if Vlad was to play in the OF for a bit.

[crazy47larry]

This thread both vexes and amazes me

[Spanky99]

This thread both vexes and amazes me

 

I don't understand why? There were a few 80+ page threads of people hating/loving on AA, par for the course, really. Just don't see why people still care so much, move on.

[Boxcar]

His drafting record was elite because we had a couple year run wherein we could horde picks, thus we had drafts wherein we had 3-4-5 first round picks. Almost all of his top prospects came during that period wherein we were enjoying ~7 picks within the Top 100. After the MLB closed that loophole, our drafting record became much more average (just look at the last draft or two which were nothing special). Don't get me wrong, his high-upside approach coupled with a ton of picks produced a lot of good talent, but any time you have that many HIGH picks shouldn't you already expect that to produce results? Its not like every pick we made panned out either, as for every Syndergaard we had a Tyler Gonzalez or other uber-flop.

 

We were also pretty much the only team during his tenure that reliably failed to sign one or a few of our top draftees almost every year.

[keggy]

How unique are Bo and Vlad?? How many players have the Jays had in their history that have reached aproximately that level??

 

Travis Snider, Vernon Wells, Carlos Delgado who am I missing?

 

High school draft picks, international signings who had great seasons young (18-20). How often do guys like that come along, even at the prospect level??

 

In terms of Top 10 in all of baseball, which Vlad certainly is, Shawn Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Alex Rios were all ranked top 10 prospects. Bichette's status is a notch below that but arguably in the same historical ballpark as guys like Josh Phelps, Felipe Lopez, Shannon Stewart, Halladay/Escobar/Carpenter, etc.

 

Other than Ricciardi, the Jays have a very long and respected history of draft success.

[THANOS]

In terms of Top 10 in all of baseball, which Vlad certainly is, Shawn Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Alex Rios were all ranked top 10 prospects. Bichette's status is a notch below that but arguably in the same historical ballpark as guys like Josh Phelps, Felipe Lopez, Shannon Stewart, Halladay/Escobar/Carpenter, etc.

 

Other than Ricciardi, the Jays have a very long and respected history of draft success.

 

Bichette could actually end up in the same ranking as the first group by the end of 2018. He's probably Top 20 or better at the start of 2017.

[TheHurl]

His drafting record was elite because we had a couple year run wherein we could horde picks, thus we had drafts wherein we had 3-4-5 first round picks. Almost all of his top prospects came during that period wherein we were enjoying ~7 picks within the Top 100. After the MLB closed that loophole, our drafting record became much more average (just look at the last draft or two which were nothing special). Don't get me wrong, his high-upside approach coupled with a ton of picks produced a lot of good talent, but any time you have that many HIGH picks shouldn't you already expect that to produce results? Its not like every pick we made panned out either, as for every Syndergaard we had a Tyler Gonzalez or other uber-flop.

 

To AA's credit Tampa had some brilliant minds behind them, and usually just as many picks and bombed during this same time period.

[Spanky99]

Bichette could actually end up in the same ranking as the first group by the end of 2018. He's probably Top 20 or better at the start of 2017.

 

Top 15 easy.

[saskjayfan]

I don't understand why? There were a few 80+ page threads of people hating/loving on AA, par for the course, really. Just don't see why people still care so much, move on.

 

One guy didn't get a job and still holds a grudge. Many didn't like how well he seemingly got along with Bob McCowan, who is an idiot. The main reason most people don't like the fat greek is because he didn't have baseball experience, and he worked his way up from the mail room to a general manager position. He's basically lived the life that most on here would kill to have. That's why many have to prove how much more intelligent they are than the guy.

 

Anthopolous is 40 years old and he has made a crap load of mistakes. Mistakes are things you learn from to become a better GM. He's also done a lot of positive things as well. He just spent 2 years in a very good organization further developing his abilities. I expect he will do just fine with the Braves being as young as he is and having that much experience.

 

I suppose I fall in the category that loved AA. I recognize he did a lot of good and bad moves while here. AA was a very charismatic guy. I think catching a pint with him would be a lot of fun. It's easy to root for a guy who is like able.

 

I'm fully supportive of the Shapkins now. I really only care what we do in the off season. I don't really need to discuss at length moves made several years ago.

[Spanky99]

One guy didn't get a job and still holds a grudge. Many didn't like how well he seemingly got along with Bob McCowan, who is an idiot. The main reason most people don't like the fat greek is because he didn't have baseball experience, and he worked his way up from the mail room to a general manager position. He's basically lived the life that most on here would kill to have. That's why many have to prove how much more intelligent they are than the guy.

 

Anthopolous is 40 years old and he has made a crap load of mistakes. Mistakes are things you learn from to become a better GM. He's also done a lot of positive things as well. He just spent 2 years in a very good organization further developing his abilities. I expect he will do just fine with the Braves being as young as he is and having that much experience.

 

I suppose I fall in the category that loved AA. I recognize he did a lot of good and bad moves while here. AA was a very charismatic guy. I think catching a pint with him would be a lot of fun. It's easy to root for a guy who is like able.

 

I'm fully supportive of the Shapkins now. I really only care what we do in the off season. I don't really need to discuss at length moves made several years ago.

 

blah... blah... blahhh... you lost your mind when Shapiro took over, lol.

[Dick_Pole]

One guy didn't get a job and still holds a grudge. Many didn't like how well he seemingly got along with Bob McCowan, who is an idiot. The main reason most people don't like the fat greek is because he didn't have baseball experience, and he worked his way up from the mail room to a general manager position. He's basically lived the life that most on here would kill to have. That's why many have to prove how much more intelligent they are than the guy.

 

Anthopolous is 40 years old and he has made a crap load of mistakes. Mistakes are things you learn from to become a better GM. He's also done a lot of positive things as well. He just spent 2 years in a very good organization further developing his abilities. I expect he will do just fine with the Braves being as young as he is and having that much experience.

 

I suppose I fall in the category that loved AA. I recognize he did a lot of good and bad moves while here. AA was a very charismatic guy. I think catching a pint with him would be a lot of fun. It's easy to root for a guy who is like able.

 

I'm fully supportive of the Shapkins now. I really only care what we do in the off season. I don't really need to discuss at length moves made several years ago.

 

I agree. The exact same level of vitriol has been thrown against Lawrie whenever the topic of his personality or intelligence came up. They also can't admit that they have been wrong for four years about Goins against some dude who thinks he can outrun Bautista. Just a bunch of jealous beta males on here who have to armchair quarterback everything but have no accomplishments to speak of unlike AA. Why do you think they all have to be in 15 different fantasy pools?

[Spanky99]

I agree. The exact same level of vitriol has been thrown against Lawrie whenever the topic of his personality or intelligence came up. They also can't admit that they have been wrong for four years about Goins against some dude who thinks he can outrun Bautista. Just a bunch of jealous beta males on here who have to armchair quarterback everything but have no accomplishments to speak of unlike AA. Why do you think they all have to be in 15 different fantasy pools?

 

You remember this guy when Shapiro was named president? lol

[TwistedLogic]

Since 2011, Toronto's had 33 picks in the first 3 rounds. St. Louis has had 30....yet Toronto's draft picks (all rounds) have produced 62% more WAR than Cardinal draft picks. The Cards have enjoyed extra picks (they had two first rounders + 3 comp picks in 2012 and two 1st round picks in 2013 + 2014 and three 1st round picks in 2016), but you're too arrogant to even look.

 

How you like them apples clown?

 

lmao, perfect. Metafour is low-key one of the most garbage members on this board. I don't think anyone else makes as many posts that are total ass, with such confidence.

 

And to further your point, this forum absolutely fellated the Rays for so many years, so much so that I trust many of the people on this board to have a bright future in porn, teaching aspiring actresses the art of the deepthroat. The Rays have had 34 picks in the top three rounds since 2011, with 12 in 2011 alone. They sit dead last on that drafting graph.

[Spanky99]

lmao, perfect. Metafour is low-key one of the most garbage members on this board. I don't think anyone else makes as many posts that are total ass, with such confidence.

 

And to further your point, this forum absolutely fellated the Rays for so many years, so much so that I trust many of the people on this board to have a bright future in porn, teaching aspiring actresses the art of the deepthroat. The Rays have had 34 picks in the top three rounds since 2011, with 12 in 2011 alone. They sit dead last on that drafting graph.

 

BTS, Hurl, Nox, NJH, GD, whom else, Boxbike?

[Angrioter]

Steve Phillips seems to think Donaldson and Toronto are a fit with the Braves??? I know some of you guys joked about this, but the timeline/fit makes zero sense, iff AA did that, I think I'd piss myself laughing!

 

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/could-anthopoulos-braves-target-josh-donaldson~1259647

 

Lo dije hace unos días!!

[Angrioter]

All of their other good young pieces are pitchers, unless you're into Swanson. I guess they also have Maitan. I think they'd have a hard time putting the best offer together.

 

Maitan could be free agent next season. Cheating braves

[Krylian]

Maitan could be free agent next season. Cheating braves

 

Everyone cheats. They just got caught.

[Olerud363]

In terms of Top 10 in all of baseball, which Vlad certainly is, Shawn Green, Alex Gonzalez, and Alex Rios were all ranked top 10 prospects. Bichette's status is a notch below that but arguably in the same historical ballpark as guys like Josh Phelps, Felipe Lopez, Shannon Stewart, Halladay/Escobar/Carpenter, etc.

 

Other than Ricciardi, the Jays have a very long and respected history of draft success.

 

I'm not looking for guys high in BA rankings, but about prospects, who have done what Bichette has done, at age 18-20. (I don't want to cherry pick too much, for example, if I said 19 and below, I'd eliminate Wells, who had his amazing season at 20)

 

Travis Snider - Good rookie ball seasons and tore up low a as a 19 year old

Carlos Delgado - Good rookie low a and tore up Dunedin as a 19 turning 20 year old

Vernon Wells - Good rookie low a and tore up three levels as a 20 year old

 

In Blue Jays history we can add Vlad, and Bo to that list,

 

The other players you listed are completely different in terms of performance

 

Phelps - did not start hitting until 21, and even then had bad k/bb

Lopez - Had solid 19 year old season, but not spectacular, struggled at 20

Green - No power as a 19 year old (1 homer) or 20 year old (4), started hitting at 21

Stewart - Hit good for a 19 year old, but not great.

 

Those guys all have a completely different statistical profiles than Bichette.

[KingKat]

Omar Vizquel might have been the worst.

 

IIRC, Vizquel directly cost the team Luis Valbuena.

[Cleveland Steamer]

One guy didn't get a job and still holds a grudge. Many didn't like how well he seemingly got along with Bob McCowan, who is an idiot. The main reason most people don't like the fat greek is because he didn't have baseball experience, and he worked his way up from the mail room to a general manager position. He's basically lived the life that most on here would kill to have. That's why many have to prove how much more intelligent they are than the guy.

 

Anthopolous is 40 years old and he has made a crap load of mistakes. Mistakes are things you learn from to become a better GM. He's also done a lot of positive things as well. He just spent 2 years in a very good organization further developing his abilities. I expect he will do just fine with the Braves being as young as he is and having that much experience.

 

I suppose I fall in the category that loved AA. I recognize he did a lot of good and bad moves while here. AA was a very charismatic guy. I think catching a pint with him would be a lot of fun. It's easy to root for a guy who is like able.

 

I'm fully supportive of the Shapkins now. I really only care what we do in the off season. I don't really need to discuss at length moves made several years ago.

AA was very charismatic. He was probably banging groupies left and right.

[metafour]

lmao, perfect. Metafour is low-key one of the most garbage members on this board. I don't think anyone else makes as many posts that are total ass, with such confidence.

 

Look at this swinging from my nuts again, "low-key" LOL. High-key, I'll f*** you till you love me.

Edited November 17, 2017 by TheHurl

[Cleveland Steamer]

Look at this swinging from my nuts again, "low-key" LOL. High-key, I'll f*** you till you love me.

 

s*** just got real in here.

Edited November 17, 2017 by TheHurl

[Krylian]

This thread got real angry real fast. Can we just congratulate AA and be on our way.

[saskjayfan]

blah... blah... blahhh... you lost your mind when Shapiro took over, lol.

 

I didn't like the morales signing, but I had no problem with the Pearce signing. I didn't like the smoak signing and am very glad they did it now. I had no issues with the Bautista signing and it just didn't work out, but it was only one year. I think the Estrada signing was a good one. I don't think Shapiro has done anything bad, so why would I lose my mind. I don't blame Shapiro for all the injuries and players under performing.

 

I'm interested to see where they go this off season. I will likely bitch if I don't like the moves. I'll likely be positive if I like the moves.

[Angrioter]

Maitan could be free agent next season. Cheating braves

 

This 😂

[keggy]

I'm not looking for guys high in BA rankings, but about prospects, who have done what Bichette has done, at age 18-20. (I don't want to cherry pick too much, for example, if I said 19 and below, I'd eliminate Wells, who had his amazing season at 20)

 

Travis Snider - Good rookie ball seasons and tore up low a as a 19 year old

Carlos Delgado - Good rookie low a and tore up Dunedin as a 19 turning 20 year old

Vernon Wells - Good rookie low a and tore up three levels as a 20 year old

 

In Blue Jays history we can add Vlad, and Bo to that list,

 

The other players you listed are completely different in terms of performance

 

Phelps - did not start hitting until 21, and even then had bad k/bb

Lopez - Had solid 19 year old season, but not spectacular, struggled at 20

Green - No power as a 19 year old (1 homer) or 20 year old (4), started hitting at 21

Stewart - Hit good for a 19 year old, but not great.

 

Those guys all have a completely different statistical profiles than Bichette.

 

Jays with numbers as good as Bichette as a teenager? Maybe Tony Fernandez from decades ago. John Olerud going straight from the draft to the majors at age 20 definitely means something, but not quite what you might be looking for. Alex Gonzalez hit for power and speed with good defense at shortstop as a 20 year old in AA and was one of the most coveted prospects in baseball, but again not the same hitting numbers as Bichette.

 

Bichette's run at Lansing was historically good.

[John_Havok]

Jays with numbers as good as Bichette as a teenager? Maybe Tony Fernandez from decades ago. John Olerud going straight from the draft to the majors at age 20 definitely means something, but not quite what you might be looking for. Alex Gonzalez hit for power and speed with good defense at shortstop as a 20 year old in AA and was one of the most coveted prospects in baseball, but again not the same hitting numbers as Bichette.

 

Bichette's run at Lansing was historically good.

 

And yet Vlad was better...

 

Anyways, I wonder if AA has learned not to blow his prospect load on 36 year old pitchers. Braves could be a very good team in short order given their youth

[Cleveland Steamer]

And yet Vlad was better...

 

Anyways, I wonder if AA has learned not to blow his prospect load on 36 year old pitchers. Braves could be a very good team in short order given their youth

 

Did you already blow your load tonight on your 36 year old computer screen?