Toronto Blue Jays Rebuilding Thread

[burlingtonbandit]

My god why did TSN hire the guy.

 

I like how a lot of the media slams Martin but the guy is still worth his contract and is still one of the better Catchers in baseball. Now that last year will likely be dead money but he's still good now and might be worth $20M next year too.

 

That was a pretty good FA signing by AA.

[Yippy]

Jays will be trading after this Boston series loss and the clevland series loss

[Deadpool]

From Scott Mitchell - TSN. The Jays have a core of 3 good starters under contract. The issue remains to be the corner out fielders. I think Pompey and DS Jr (if he learns to catch) could do very well.

 

I have to agree that this team does not need to be blown up. Too bad Travis is injured (all the time it seems). I think Biagini, Barnes, Teppera and Osuna are quite good.

 

While we all like JD, time is ticking. I don't think it is possible for him to live up to his MVP year which is what we want. Should be able to get something decent. Pearce could also fetch something.

 

Money should be available as well. DFA that farce in RF, good bye to Liriano and Estrada and there will be plenty of money. Oh ya, get rid of Tulo, Martin and Morales. These guys are dead money.

 

So, Jays need Maile to step up, a SP that burns innings and another starter. Outfield corners are in the system.

 

Wait... Someone was paid money for this? Wow.

[L54]

What don't you like?

 

Every single paragraph is full of ********.

 

Pompey and DSJ will not do "very well" if thrown into the corners. They're both 4th outfielders.

 

Biagini, Barnes and Tepera are okay, but who really cares. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them were with the club in two years.

 

Nobody expects JD to live up to his MVP year. That's like expecting to bang the hottest chick you ever did every time you go out. Yes, he would most certainly fetch something more than decent.

 

They aren't going to DFA Bautista. You can't just get rid of Tulo, and Morales, if it was that easy it would have already been done I'm sure. Martin is not dead money, he's actually been just fine.

[Dick_Pole]

From Scott Mitchell - TSN. The Jays have a core of 3 good starters under contract. The issue remains to be the corner out fielders. I think Pompey and DS Jr (if he learns to catch) could do very well.

 

I have to agree that this team does not need to be blown up. Too bad Travis is injured (all the time it seems). I think Biagini, Barnes, Teppera and Osuna are quite good.

 

While we all like JD, time is ticking. I don't think it is possible for him to live up to his MVP year which is what we want. Should be able to get something decent. Pearce could also fetch something.

 

Money should be available as well. DFA that farce in RF, good bye to Liriano and Estrada and there will be plenty of money. Oh ya, get rid of Tulo, Martin and Morales. These guys are dead money.

 

So, Jays need Maile to step up, a SP that burns innings and another starter. Outfield corners are in the system.

 

 

So....wait is this all your ******** or Scott Mitchell? I thought his opinion was just the first paragraph and the rest yours. But at this point I'd claim it was all his if I were you to save yourself from further ridicule.

 

LOL at the Jays needing Maile to step up. Yes all he has to do is step up and increase his batting average and RC+ by a factor of 10.

[Spanky99]

Every single paragraph is full of ********.

 

Pompey and DSJ will not do "very well" if thrown into the corners. They're both 4th outfielders.

 

Biagini, Barnes and Tepera are okay, but who really cares. I wouldn't be surprised if none of them were with the club in two years.

 

Nobody expects JD to live up to his MVP year. That's like expecting to bang the hottest chick you ever did every time you go out. Yes, he would most certainly fetch something more than decent.

 

They aren't going to DFA Bautista. You can't just get rid of Tulo, and Morales, if it was that easy it would have already been done I'm sure. Martin is not dead money, he's actually been just fine.

 

lulz

[SaskJaysFan_2]

I notice most of you don't have any rebuilding ideas, you just wait until someone does and then love to deal out the critical replies.

 

Let's hear them, keyboard warriors.

 

#waiting

[reedjohnsonfan]

I notice most of you don't have any rebuilding ideas, you just wait until someone does and then love to deal out the critical replies.

 

Let's hear them, keyboard warriors.

 

#waiting

 

Ha. I'm not so sure it's black and white that the team needs to tear it down immediately. It does seem like they should be sellers, but if they think they can contend next year it is possible but the FO will have to get very creative.

[TheHurl]

Ha. I'm not so sure it's black and white that the team needs to tear it down immediately. It does seem like they should be sellers, but if they think they can contend next year it is possible but the FO will have to get very creative.

 

I'm in agreement. I just don't think a full put up with 2 to 3 100 loss teams and hope the prospects become stars methods are going to work here. You have to look at all possible trades but it's still a pretty good team that is playing badly and playing hurt (much like the Indians every first half before last year). There just are no automatic, you have to do this kind of moves. You listen on everything but there should be zero desperation just to please the fans that think tear downs are easy

[bendera3]

I'm in agreement. I just don't think a full put up with 2 to 3 100 loss teams and hope the prospects become stars methods are going to work here. You have to look at all possible trades but it's still a pretty good team that is playing badly and playing hurt (much like the Indians every first half before last year). There just are no automatic, you have to do this kind of moves. You listen on everything but there should be zero desperation just to please the fans that think tear downs are easy

 

I agree. I don't think we need to completely tank in order to build for the future. If time and resources are put into scouting/data interpretation and development I don't think we necessarily need a ton of top 10 picks to build for the future.

[glory]

I'm in agreement. I just don't think a full put up with 2 to 3 100 loss teams and hope the prospects become stars methods are going to work here. You have to look at all possible trades but it's still a pretty good team that is playing badly and playing hurt (much like the Indians every first half before last year). There just are no automatic, you have to do this kind of moves. You listen on everything but there should be zero desperation just to please the fans that think tear downs are easy

 

Yeah they should not sell for the sake of selling unless it is trying to salvage a bad situation (like trading Jose, Marco, and Liriano). Otherwise, hold out for the best value even if it's a year from now. The prospects they get back are more important than the direction of the team. Try to maximize the prospect return.

[justafan]

Only the first para was from Scott Mitchell. I will take the heat for the rest. It is IMHO and I think I am allowed to say that. Gotta count on the farm system. Players come up all the time. Everyone wants proven players but that is not what the top teams do (except the Dodgers). You can almost count on at least 1 player each year coming from the system.

 

I also think that Joey was the worst signing (after Romero) that I have seen in years. Glad it is just 1 season.

 

For someone to say Martin is worth his money is almost full retard mode. Never go full retard!

 

 

 

So....wait is this all your ******** or Scott Mitchell? I thought his opinion was just the first paragraph and the rest yours. But at this point I'd claim it was all his if I were you to save yourself from further ridicule.

 

LOL at the Jays needing Maile to step up. Yes all he has to do is step up and increase his batting average and RC+ by a factor of 10.

[Brownie19]

Only the first para was from Scott Mitchell. I will take the heat for the rest. It is IMHO and I think I am allowed to say that. Gotta count on the farm system. Players come up all the time. Everyone wants proven players but that is not what the top teams do (except the Dodgers). You can almost count on at least 1 player each year coming from the system.

 

I also think that Joey was the worst signing (after Romero) that I have seen in years. Glad it is just 1 season.

 

For someone to say Martin is worth his money is almost full retard mode. Never go full retard!

 

No offense, but that's probably because you know very little about baseball. There are many very intelligent people in the game of baseball and on this board. The numbers suggest Martin's provided about $25M of surplus value to date (excluding any additional framing value). Feel free to continue posting IMHO stuff, but realise that ignorant opinion may be subject to ridicule.

 

Also - using the word retard is not really socially acceptable anymore.

[Slade]

lol f***ing hockey fans.

[justafan]

All good. Thx

 

No offense, but that's probably because you know very little about baseball. There are many very intelligent people in the game of baseball and on this board. The numbers suggest Martin's provided about $25M of surplus value to date (excluding any additional framing value). Feel free to continue posting IMHO stuff, but realise that ignorant opinion may be subject to ridicule.

 

Also - using the word retard is not really socially acceptable anymore.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Ha. I'm not so sure it's black and white that the team needs to tear it down immediately. It does seem like they should be sellers, but if they think they can contend next year it is possible but the FO will have to get very creative.

 

I agree. A "rebuild" is unnecessary. But a "re-tool"? Yeah.

 

So, let's hear your ideas, all of you, for re-tooling.

 

As I have mentioned, I think Rogers/FO would be willing to take on some bad contracts to get good contracts (below market value, controllable players). I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on what could, or should, happen.

 

For me, dumping guys like Pearce does not make sense. He's cheap, and can hit. Tulo would be hard to get rid of, but any harder than Wells or Reyes?

[Krylian]

lol f***ing hockey fans.

 

What's wrong with liking hockey?

[Omar]

Only the first para was from Scott Mitchell. I will take the heat for the rest. It is IMHO and I think I am allowed to say that. Gotta count on the farm system. Players come up all the time. Everyone wants proven players but that is not what the top teams do (except the Dodgers). You can almost count on at least 1 player each year coming from the system.

 

I also think that Joey was the worst signing (after Romero) that I have seen in years. Glad it is just 1 season.

 

For someone to say Martin is worth his money is almost full retard mode. Never go full retard!

 

Sorry man but Martin is worth every penny. God knows where this team would be this year without him. I appreciate your take on things but not this. If Shatkins were to let it be known that they wanted to get rid of Martin their phones would be ringing off the hook. It seems like you are totally discounting his pitch selection behind the plate as well. Dont you think part of the reason Osuna is Osuna is because he developed because of Russell? Go to the Orioles hangout and read comments lamenting that their catchers don't know how to call a game and that they wish they had Weiters back.

 

Martin may be the only irreplaceable guy on this team.

[Bobthe4th]

I agree. A "rebuild" is unnecessary. But a "re-tool"? Yeah.

 

So, let's hear your ideas, all of you, for re-tooling.

 

As I have mentioned, I think Rogers/FO would be willing to take on some bad contracts to get good contracts (below market value, controllable players). I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on what could, or should, happen.

 

For me, dumping guys like Pearce does not make sense. He's cheap, and can hit. Tulo would be hard to get rid of, but any harder than Wells or Reyes?

 

 

Retool priorities:

 

We have 3 1B/DH players. Pearce can play LF but he's not very good there. Ideally, Morales would be traded, but that might be difficult. So I think trading one of Pearce or Smoak would be dealing from a position of relative strength.

 

I think Happ should be traded if there's a decent offer out there. He's only got one more season on his contract and his age = higher risk of decline next year.

 

In the offseason JD either signs a team friendly deal (i.e. much less than $30m for 5+ seasons) or is traded for multiple assets, including at least one player who can play straight away.

 

Use August/September this year to see if players like Alford, Smith Jr, Pompey (possibly Gurriel and some of the pitchers) should be on the 25 man next year. Plus see if Travis comes back this season.

 

Trade Estrada and Liriano and move Biagini back to starting again as an audition for next year.

[Brownie19]

I think you have to try and trade Smoak. He's under control for 2 more years for next to nothing, which should add value to the return. I really hope his breakout is for real and he continues to tear it up, but given the Jays position, I'd let someone else find out if they are willing to give up a quality prospect.

[Abomination]

I think you have to try and trade Smoak. He's under control for 2 more years for next to nothing, which should add value to the return. I really hope his breakout is for real and he continues to tear it up, but given the Jays position, I'd let someone else find out if they are willing to give up a quality prospect.

 

I kinda feel you keep Smoak for now regardless of a rebuild or not, unless someone really blows you away. If he can build on this season and demonstrate it during the first half next year, you'll get a LOT more next year.

[justafan]

I agree Happ could go and get a healthy return. Now is a good time for that.

 

I understand that Martin has skills. He also has to hit 250 in my opinion for him to be worthwhile.

 

If Smoak continues for the rest of the season, his value would go way up over the winter. I would hold off here and see.

 

Agree with trading Estrada and Liriano.

 

I agree Morales and Tulo would be hard to get rid of. JD has some value and I don't think Rogers will give him a $30m x 5 years.

 

I too would like to see Alford, Pompey and DS jr. Would be nice to see some speed for a change.

 

 

 

Retool priorities:

 

We have 3 1B/DH players. Pearce can play LF but he's not very good there. Ideally, Morales would be traded, but that might be difficult. So I think trading one of Pearce or Smoak would be dealing from a position of relative strength.

 

I think Happ should be traded if there's a decent offer out there. He's only got one more season on his contract and his age = higher risk of decline next year.

 

In the offseason JD either signs a team friendly deal (i.e. much less than $30m for 5+ seasons) or is traded for multiple assets, including at least one player who can play straight away.

 

Use August/September this year to see if players like Alford, Smith Jr, Pompey (possibly Gurriel and some of the pitchers) should be on the 25 man next year. Plus see if Travis comes back this season.

 

Trade Estrada and Liriano and move Biagini back to starting again as an audition for next year.

[John_Havok]

Iunderstand that Martin has skills. He also has to hit 250 in my opinion for him to be worthwhile.

 

You do realize that batting average is probably the poorest representation of the skills of any hitter right? Not to mention the far more important defensive value Martin brings.

[Bobthe4th]

You do realize that batting average is probably the poorest representation of the skills of any hitter right? Not to mention the far more important defensive value Martin brings.

 

Yeah and even if you're only looking at traditional stats Smoak has the highest (qualified) batting average on the team. Martin's OBP is only 0.05 less than Smoak.

 

Whatever measure you want to use, Martin has fully justified his contract and more.

[Brownie19]

I kinda feel you keep Smoak for now regardless of a rebuild or not, unless someone really blows you away. If he can build on this season and demonstrate it during the first half next year, you'll get a LOT more next year.

 

It all depends on what you can get for him now & how much you believe in him. Unfortunately, not many contending teams need a first baseman right now and there's the risk that if he reverts back to the old Smoak in the 2nd half or early next year - you get nothing for him.

 

I fully expect Shatkins is out there seeing what the market is for him and weighing those risks. You may even find a non-contending team that believes in his improvements willing to pony up due to his dirt cheap contract for the next 2 years.

[Bobthe4th]

It all depends on what you can get for him now & how much you believe in him. Unfortunately, not many contending teams need a first baseman right now and there's the risk that if he reverts back to the old Smoak in the 2nd half or early next year - you get nothing for him.

 

I fully expect Shatkins is out there seeing what the market is for him and weighing those risks. You may even find a non-contending team that believes in his improvements willing to pony up due to his dirt cheap contract for the next 2 years.

 

Yankees are a good fit for him or Pearce.

[HERPDERP]

lets make a run for Odor?

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-tried-acquire-rangers-odor/

[L54]

lets make a run for Odor?

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-blue-jays-tried-acquire-rangers-odor/

 

Nice. Big fan of the sub .300 OBP.

[Krylian]

Nice. Big fan of the sub .300 OBP.

 

Do you think this season is indicative of the kind of player he really is? I think he's closer to what he did last season.

 

He's still a cockhat, either way though.

[Brownie19]

Do you think this season is indicative of the kind of player he really is? I think he's closer to what he did last season.

 

He's still a cockhat, either way though.

 

OBP was sub .300 last season too (106 wRC+). He's s***.