Time Travel and what could have been - the Halladay Trade

[Key22]

Looking back the Halladay Trade, AA was under the gun with few teams available to deal and Halladay demanding a contender.

 

He landed:

Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor. He spun Taylor into Wallace and then into Gose and then into Travis.

 

So essentially Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Devon Travis

 

But playing GM with our hindsight - what should we have asked for for Halladay - knowing that Drabek was a complete bust and Taylor had a grand total of 37 games over 4 years. Big name prospects. D'Arnaud has been solid when he plays but so far seems made of glass.

 

The guys on the board who follow the drafts closely will know better than I, but I am curious if the Jays could have snagged say four guys from the Phillies A team back then and if there are any studs playing today rather than us taking the bigger name prospects like Drabek and Taylor?

[Belliss101]

Looking back the Halladay Trade, AA was under the gun with few teams available to deal and Halladay demanding a contender.

 

He landed:

Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor. He spun Taylor into Wallace and then into Gose and then into Travis.

 

So essentially Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Devon Travis

 

But playing GM with our hindsight - what should we have asked for for Halladay - knowing that Drabek was a complete bust and Taylor had a grand total of 37 games over 4 years. Big name prospects. D'Arnaud has been solid when he plays but so far seems made of glass.

 

The guys on the board who follow the drafts closely will know better than I, but I am curious if the Jays could have snagged say four guys from the Phillies A team back then and if there are any studs playing today rather than us taking the bigger name prospects like Drabek and Taylor?

 

Time travel sucks and so does hindsight. Move on.

[RealAccountant]

The Phillies had offered the same prospects to the Jays, as what they offered to the Indians for Cliff Lee at the trade deadline in 2009. But JP didn't want to settle for them

 

Carlos Carrasco was the lead prospect.

 

I also remember the Angels had a deal around Saunders and some other trash.

 

Nothing else was there really. Drabek was a really good prospect, it didn't work out but all three acquired in that deal were bluechippers at the time.

[Laika]

Their 2009 system did not produce a lot of talent. Here are the other prospect options IMO:

 

Domingo Santana,

Antonio Bastardo,

Trevor May,

Freddy Galvis,

Jake Diekman,

Aaron Altherr,

Cesar Hernandez

Jon Villar

[Gary]

What other trades were on the table?

[fatcowxlive]

Looking back the Halladay Trade, AA was under the gun with few teams available to deal and Halladay demanding a contender.

 

He landed:

Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor. He spun Taylor into Wallace and then into Gose and then into Travis.

 

So essentially Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek and Devon Travis

 

But playing GM with our hindsight - what should we have asked for for Halladay - knowing that Drabek was a complete bust and Taylor had a grand total of 37 games over 4 years. Big name prospects. D'Arnaud has been solid when he plays but so far seems made of glass.

 

The guys on the board who follow the drafts closely will know better than I, but I am curious if the Jays could have snagged say four guys from the Phillies A team back then and if there are any studs playing today rather than us taking the bigger name prospects like Drabek and Taylor?

 

Most of their system was garbage. TdA was not a bust however, his injuries caused his development to hit snags. Drabek same thing, he was solid for short periods of time but he's had 2 Tommy John surgeries and wasn't able to bounce back from either of them. Very good on AA to turn Taylor -> Wallace -> Gose -> Travis, the 3 before Travis are legit trash. In hindsight the trade wasn't so bad, injuries happen but we moved on

[RealAccountant]

What other trades were on the table?

 

Franchise desire not to Trade Halladay to Rivals, combined with his 10/5 rights and the desire to give him a good home severly limited the options.

 

I think during the offseason the Phillies and the Mariners were the only serious potentiol partners. Not much was in the Mariners system either. Phillipe Aumonts name was mentoined if I remember correctly.

[Hawkins]

If we get to time travel we need to talk AA out of the Miami deal, then he wouldn't have felt the need to make the deal with the Mets. Rotation would look very nice with Thor, Sanchez and Stroman for years to come.

[RealAccountant]

With the 20th overall pick the Jays Select Mike Trout.

 

I can just imagine the convo with JPR

 

Listen, Trout is the guy. This guy is a future hall of famer, 100+ WAR

 

JPR: Jenkins looks pretty good to us. Big Strong, slow but Fat as an ox. This is our guy

[BJBirdy]

If we get to time travel we need to talk AA out of the Miami deal, then he wouldn't have felt the need to make the deal with the Mets. Rotation would look very nice with Thor, Sanchez and Stroman for years to come.

 

As great as that sounds in theory, if the Jays don't deal Syndergaard then there's a good chance one of Stroman, Sanchez, et. al would've been moved instead at some point. As much as I'd love to imagine the Jays would have a plethora of young arms, I have to imagine someone or a pair of them would've been dealt later on at some point.

[BJBirdy]

Also, what if Zach Stewart had worked out? Because that Scott Rolen trade was a bust otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bobthe4th]

As great as that sounds in theory, if the Jays don't deal Syndergaard then there's a good chance one of Stroman, Sanchez, et. al would've been moved instead at some point. As much as I'd love to imagine the Jays would have a plethora of young arms, I have to imagine someone or a pair of them would've been dealt later on at some point.

 

Good point that is often ignored.

 

Even if we did keep all 3 until now, it would have had knock on effects for other roster moves. Maybe we don't trade for Donaldson for example, maybe Sanchez never becomes a starter etc.

 

Basically roster construction isn't linear and neither is player development.

[RealAccountant]

Also, what if Zach Stewart had worked out? Because that Scott Rolen trade was a bust otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean the Edwin Encarnacion deal, that also included Scott Rolen as one of the players in the Package traded for Edwin.

[Grant77]

What other trades were on the table?

 

I remembered multiple rumours that Clayton Kershaw was offered for Halladay.

[BJBirdy]

You mean the Edwin Encarnacion deal, that also included Scott Rolen as one of the players in the Package traded for Edwin.

 

No sir, I'm talking about the deal where Scott Rolen was dealt to Cincinnati in exchange for three young studs, all of whom were massive busts and one big first baseman man who even got DFAed AND released by the Blue Jays at one point!

[nmrch]

You mean the Edwin Encarnacion deal, that also included Scott Rolen as one of the players in the Package traded for Edwin.

 

EE was a salary dump at the time. With the benefit of hindsight, the Reds(and the Blue Jays later when they DFA'd him) did give up on him too early given his power potential, he did hit 26 homeruns in 2008. This was right around the start of the pitching and defence era which made power the most premium commodity on the market

[Dr. Dinger]

I can just imagine the convo with JPR

 

Listen, Trout is the guy. This guy is a future hall of famer, 100+ WAR

 

JPR: What the f*** is a WAR? Keith, call Security.

[Dr. Dinger]

You mean the Edwin Encarnacion deal, that also included Scott Rolen as one of the players in the Package traded for Edwin.

 

The 20 WAR that Edwin racked up from 2012-2016 do not count as a part of that deal. The Blue Jays DFA Edwin in 2011 and he was claimed by A's, closing that portion of the Scott Rolen transaction. The Blue Jays then claimed Edwin again off waivers from the A's, and proceeded to bank 20 WAR from their claimee. Separate transaction, tho.

[admin]

I think it was Knapp at the time the Jays really wanted in that trade but Philly wouldn't give him up.

[nmrch]

I think it was Knapp at the time the Jays really wanted in that trade but Philly wouldn't give him up.

 

I remember Domonic Brown being the most desirable piece, the Phillies made him untouchable.

 

The truth is this hindsight analysis is even more pointless than usual. Halladay had a no trade and he was gonna go public with his trade demands if the Jays waited any longer and Anthopolous was forced to take what what he could get.

[Spanky99]

I remember Domonic Brown being the most desirable piece, the Phillies made him untouchable.

 

The truth is this hindsight analysis is even more pointless than usual. Halladay had a no trade and he was gonna go public with his trade demands if the Jays waited any longer and Anthopolous was forced to take what what he could get.

 

End thread/ Thanks.

[TBJ12]

I remember Domonic Brown being the most desirable piece, the Phillies made him untouchable.

 

The truth is this hindsight analysis is even more pointless than usual. Halladay had a no trade and he was gonna go public with his trade demands if the Jays waited any longer and Anthopolous was forced to take what what he could get.

 

Part of it seems to be the way baseball was at that time. Unless I'm mistaken, pitchers weren't valued the way the same way they were when Halladay was dealt.

Edited March 23, 2017 by TBJ12

[admin]

I remember Domonic Brown being the most desirable piece, the Phillies made him untouchable.

 

The truth is this hindsight analysis is even more pointless than usual. Halladay had a no trade and he was gonna go public with his trade demands if the Jays waited any longer and Anthopolous was forced to take what what he could get.

 

Yeah Brown was one too. But I remember initially I think it was Knapp. I remember a young pitcher mentioned.

Amazing how some of these guys turned out.

[Grant77]

The 20 WAR that Edwin racked up from 2012-2016 do not count as a part of that deal. The Blue Jays DFA Edwin in 2011 and he was claimed by A's, closing that portion of the Scott Rolen transaction. The Blue Jays then claimed Edwin again off waivers from the A's, and proceeded to bank 20 WAR from their claimee. Separate transaction, tho.

 

I think it's fair to say that we probably wouldn't have claimed Encarnacion on waivers had he not been on our roster previously.